TurkWendell

Hey all, haven't checked in in a while, still no word on the identities here. We can cross two "major league experience" names off the list with Brett Carroll and Tim Dillard's recent promotions. And with the Brandon Kintzler surgery news, even though I'm not sure he was eligible to begin with, surely his name is off too. Looking more and more like Mike McClendon is the guy Sandy Alderson was referencing. But with 3/7's of our bullpen being just brutal (DJ Carrasco, Manny Acosta and Ryota Igarashi), 2 of which have options anyway and the 3rd who has been DFA'ed earlier in the year with no concerns of losing him, I wonder why we wouldn't just take him sooner than later and get a look-see at him to help with decisions for next year? Anyway, hopefully more moves come that we can further whittle the list down.

On the "game finished" question (since we've dealt with this all year), its much simpler than some try to make it out to be. If KRod is the last guy listed in the boxscore on your side, thats a game finished. Regardless of whether it was a full inning, save or not save, losing or winning, etc. Here are some fun scenarios we got this year: -KRod blows a save into a walkoff loss on the road: thats both a blown save, plus a "game finished": double-whammy!! -KRod blows a save at home, but you come back to win it in the bottom of the inning: its a blown save, game finished, but exciting walk-off win...but you kind of get used to rooting for the game to get to extras first, so KRod can come out of the game before you win (yes I know, this is a miserable existence) -KRod blows a lead/tie game at home, but is replaced before the inning ends because its getting so bad: yeah thats a BS or a loss, but it stings less because he didn't get the game finished!!! (again, sad, sad existence) -KRod comes into a game we're winning by 7+ runs at home to "get some work": yeah you win, but a really needless game finished -KRod comes into a game we're losing by 7+ runs on the road to "get some work": the ultimate punch in the gut; the only way the blowout loss could hurt more. We even had one game where we were down significantly, Terry Collins brought in Isringhausen for 1 out, then KRod for 2 outs in the bottom of the 8th because both guys "needed work". You couldn't have done that the OTHER WAY AROUND, TERRY!!?? That was probably the worst.

Little bit of glimmer of hope for the Mets fans today offered by Keith Law (who usually loves to needle us, it seems...but perhaps most fan bases feel this way too). From his chat today (no, I am not Steve from Livermore, CA): Steve (Livermore, CA) I know you didn't like the KRod deal for the Brewers, but let me play devil's advocate. He's still K'ing 10/9, they didn't have to give up a "top top" guy, and they can get 2 high picks for him in the draft. They can rebuild the system with 5 high picks (2 from Fielder, 2 from KRod, and their own) next year. Klaw (1:09 PM) Got a few comments like this in the Conversation, but I'm not buying it. K/9 is not a great measure, since the denominator is innings (outs) rather than batters faced. (Two pitchers can have equal K/9 rates even if one walks twice as many batters as the other, and thus isn't striking out the same percentage of hitters.) As for draft picks, the Brewers would have to offer him arbitration and then would risk an arbitration award of about $12.5-$14 million if he accepts, which he most likely would. I believe Boras represented Millwood when he accepted arbitration from Atlanta. True, they didn't give up a "top top" guy, but I've been told the players on the list are not zeroes, either. (Bolded for emphasis). Now, not to say guys like Stetter and the like are "zeroes", but a guy like Keith Law, who is a prospect snob, certainly would have no problem using that moniker for older, no upside role players. 2 hitters Mets fans are spending some time discussing as hopefuls are Khris Davis (older guy who has been killing his league...maybe not more than an org guy, but at least piques the interest) and Erik Komatsu - how do you guys value those 2? Would you be upset losing them, considering those guys "the cost of doing business", be pumped if thats "all" you gave up, etc? On Khris Davis: we have a guy kinda like him, but he's an IFer, named Josh Satin. He's 26 and in AA (after ending last year there) and is killing the league ...32 doubles this year so far, .970 OPS, 10 HRs...from a guy who's primary position is 2B and the EL I believe is a pitcher's league. Our assumption as fans has always been there must be an obvious flaw in this guys' game that the FO sees and knows he's better served helping the AA win than pushing him towards the bigs (or even AAA, since our AAA squad has almost NO talent in the middle infield )...is that how you feel about Khris Davis?

Could be Mike Adams part II Funny you mention Adams, since we (Mets) are the ones you traded him to (for Geremi Gonzalez, IIRC). Of course, we then let him go shortly thereafter for nothing, all before he went from being "Mike Adams?" to "Mike Adams!!" So, at least take solace that we had him slightly closer to his breakout and still saw nothing, and at least you got something (albeit, not much) back for him when you dumped him.

HRs are a potential issue for NOBODY when you throw half your games in Citifield http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif. But, on a serious note, yeah Gee's HR rates in the upper minors weren't great (1.2 per 9 in AAA after not going above .4 per 9 at the lower levels), but in the majors so far, they've been excellent (just .6 per 9). Of course, that's helped by a 6% HR/FB rate, which may be unsustainable, but again, with Citifield, maybe not.

Thanks for the welcome.Yeah, it seems McClendon might be the guy who fits this whole thing best. Some people have also mentioned Kinzler, but I don't think he's eligible as he's on the major league DL right now, which means he wouldn't be "switching leagues" as the PTBNL rule mandates. I've also seen some Mark DiFelice talk, but he's a 35 yr old guy with arm issues, so I just CAN'T imagine thats what Sandy was looking for here (I'd assume he'd take an A ball guy with little chance of ever being much, but with some glimmer of upside over a 35 yr old with arm troubles, no?). Stetter I hope is not the guy. As most have said, he's rehabbing, and I don't know how "ready" he is, but Sandy seemed to imply he could name this guy today and he'd be contributing tomorrow for the 2nd half opener. And as I mentioned above, if he really wanted a 30-ish guy with subpar velocity and some past lefty-on-lefty success in the majors, our AAA team isn't hurting for that: Justin Hampson, Taylor Tankersley and Mike O'Connor all stashed down there. And I THINK Stetter has to be nearing arbitration-eligibility, perhaps after this year, and then he probably outgains his usefulness (in that, anything over the league minimum is probably too much to pay for a guy like that). So yeah, I think McClendon is starting to come to forefront here as making the most sense...but we'll see. I have to admit, before yesterday, I had never even heard of the guy, so when I looked at Nashville's roster for guys who I knew had "past major league success" or however Sandy phrased it, I never even considered him initially.

http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif As bad of shape we're in, we're not THAT bad.

This is pretty much the Mets' fan conundrum. We want to use Sandy's words to infer its Gamel, but then like you said, thats a pretty good name for Sandy to put out there initially as a good "return" for KRod (issues transferring from the minors to the majors aside for now), so why hold it up? The only straw we're grasping onto is the whole "GM speak" reasoning of, to borrow something a Met poster said on another board: "It's still better, if you know you want a guy, to be able to select him weeks later off a list that includes other possible gets, in case there's a reason down the road that you would not select him (e.g., scouts see something bad, or see something good in other players)." I mean, if you can get his name on a list that Melvin agrees to, and you weren't doing extensive scouting of the Brewers ahead of time, even if you're 95% sure you want Gamel, more info is always better than old info, right? Maybe you want to investigate why, to date, he hasn't been able to transfer his minor league successes in his callups? I guess the idea is that the PTBNL stipulation, if you know you're not getting/going after current major leaguers, allows you some flexibility and time in choosing your guys, rather than be locked into a guy right away. Not that there are a LOT of instances of these, but there have been some "bigger" names traded as PTBNL's recently: -Chris Perez was a PTBNL in the Mark DeRosa trade from the Indians to the Cards a few years back. The rumor was the Cards gave them the choice of Perez or Motte (who I believe were both in the majors at the time, or at least had been at some point...which was OK, because of the silly rules involving "switching leagues" with PTBNLs), so they used some time to scout both more extensively-Micah Owings, who started 18 games for the DBacks that year, went from arizona to the Reds in the Adam Dunn deal as a PTBNL-Sean Rodriguez was a PTBNL for the Rays in the Scott Kazmir deal Anyway, just some examples of guys who were more "known" quantities who if you were sure you wanted initially, you probably could have more easily just announced their names at the times of the deal, but instead held back as PTBNLs. I think the most important thing is that obviously the "buyer" in these deals are looking for quick resolution as their obviously chasing something, and every game holds more importance. The "seller", while maybe not giving up completely, knows the day-to-day is less important at this point and will consummate a deal quicker to satisfy the buyer and can afford to wait a bit and not be concerned if waiting an extra week to be sure comes back to bite them in that the guy they wanted could've helped them in the meantime. BUT, with that all said, Gamel is probably a Met fan pipe dream, but one we'll hold onto for now in the backs of our minds. I guess we're counting on Melvin souring on him (was his demotion a surprise? Seemed like he was getting semi-regular time at a few different positions, and obviously McGahee has really struggled this year), and maybe as he's 26 and I believe out of options after this year, he no longer considers him a "top top" prospect. Our best parallel might be a guy like Nick Evans, who is similarly defensively challenged but "plays" all 4 corners, is 25 as well, hit .300/.371/.536 last year between AA and AAA and has hit .329/.378/.480 in AAA this year, but just can't seem to translate it when he gets his chances up here. Or, to a lesser extent, Fernando Martinez, who is a little different because he's still just 22, but he was once our legit number 1 guy, Omar made him totally untouchable for years, but thanks to some fantastic roster management, will be out-of-options next year and has done nothing in the majors in his limited chances to make you think he can stick. So I could definitely see him being dealt in a similar deal from our end, and even though he carries a big name, I wouldn't expect Sandy to consider him one of our "top top" guys.

The scouting reports that I read yesterday when researching Fiers said 88-92, and if I've learned anything following multiple disappointing prospects from the Mets' system, its that you should always believe the bottom end of any radar range reported on draft day or throughout the minors. Until a guy has a pitchFX gun on him, I always remain skeptical as a matter of principle. For instance, Mike Pelfrey was said to be 92-97 with heavy sink when we drafted him. Anyone who watches "Big Pelf" these days knows he is (and really always has been) more 89-92, occassionally touching 93-94, with pretty moderate sink. But you guys would probably know better. With his results, though, if had had dominant stuff to match, I'd think he'd be more of a top prospect. I didn't see him ranked any higher than at the back end of your Top 10, and like us (Mets), I think you're system is in the bottom 1/3 of the league, so obviously not a lot of scouting love there for Fiers (which I never put too much credence in anyway). We Met fans were looking at him as another Dillon Gee type- dunno if you guys know who he is, but he's acting as our 5th starter right now, was a ~20th round pick a few years ago, always put up pretty nice numbers plus underlying peripherals to back them up, but scouting reports always cautioned he was pitching above his stuff and would eventually catch up to him. But now he's 8-3 with a 3.7 ERA at the ASB, after throwing up an ERA in the 2's in his September debut last year. His career 3.9 FIP vs his 3.3 ERA says he's had SOME luck to date, but not a ton. Anyway, thats our best comp for Fiers in our heads, so yeah, he's a target of Met fans.

Hey guys- I posted in the thread on the minor league side, but figured I'd weigh in here too. I'm a Mets fan (come in peace, I promise). Given Sandy's comments yesterday, and the help from some of your board members over in that thread, McClendon seems most likely, while Gamel remains the Mets' fan obvious "mark" (and obviously the opposite on your end!). Herrera doesn't make sense as he's been on waivers twice this year and the Mets passed, including just a week ago- if they really wanted him, they could have had him for nothing. The injured guys don't really make sense either due to the whole "role right away with us" thing, and even a guy like Stetter, ignoring the injury thing, who is 30, doesn't make a ton of sense (if the Mets really wanted an older LOOGy, they have Justin Hampson, Mike O'Connor and Taylor Tankersley on their AAA team they could just call up). As far as some of those other role players: not sure how they would fit in right away. Brandon Boggs- not exactly a guy who you would push Scott Hairston off the roster for, no? Ditto Brett Carroll. And while the Mets could definitely use some young catching depth, I don't think mid-30's backups like Mike Rivera or Wil Nieves would be something of interest, or something you'd push Ronny Paulino off the roster for. Their is definitely a dearth of relievers in our upper system, which is why McClendon makes sense, and even though we're pretty good at 1B/3B, certainly Gamel would be taking "Best Player Available". The others, I just don't see (we'll see, though). I'll be monitoring the transaction wire, and let you guys know if we hear anything else on our end. Thanks. As an FYI, Michael Fiers is a guy most Met fans have their eye on as well as hopefully being on that list- how do you guys feel about him. Most scouting reports say average or worse stuff, but obviously great results thus far, so could be an undervalued kind of guy, especially considering his age.

To which he answered: There you go.Well lets just call Gamel back up and we are good to go. Haha, well that would certainly be a tell-tale sign. I'll be monitoring the Brewers' transaction wire the next few weeks, certainly.

Thanks for the replies guys. Certainly Gamel is our mark, and certainly the guy you don't want to give up here. Can't say any of those other names really excite me NEARLY as much, but I'd think the McClendon kid may look most likely (in so far as "has had some major league success" and "has a role right away".) Don't know if any of those others fit those 2 critera (especially the 35 yr old catchers...). Some guys would make some sense (like a Mitch Stetter, considering our lack of left-handed relief), but with him injured, doubtful thats who Sandy was referring to. Anyway, again, thanks for the input. I'll definitely let you know if there is anything else on this end from Sandy in the coming days. I look forward to following this to see if anything starts leaking through from Melvin or others on your end too. Enjoy Frankie- fun guy to watch (just a toxic contract)!

Hey all- Met fan here, weighing in. Not trolling, I swear. First off, just wanted to perhaps correct something I see floating around here: I'm like 99% sure players on the 40 man roster are eligible to be PTBNLs. Its only players on the major league roster (including DL) that are off-limits when you are dealing intra-league. And if they were talking inter-league (i.e., Mets were in the AL), even those guys would be eligible, too. If you have something that decisively says otherwise, I'm willing to issue a mea-culpa, but I'm pretty certain on that. Anyway, just wanted to say I (and I know many others) are enjoying the convo here about some potential PTBNLs. I know its something of an anonymous system with having been largely gutted of its "name" talent this past offseason, so every time I see a new name I look them up on milb.com. Obviously I have my preferences here, which probably directly contradict your own http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif, but should be interesting to follow regardless. Anyway, wanted to relay something to you from this afternoon here in NY. Sandy Alderson was on WFAN after his formal press conference, and concluded his interview with the following, in response to a question about when we would learn the identities of the 2 PTBNLs: "We have one guy we're deciding on who has been in the big leagues, has been reasonably successful in the big leagues, he would have a role for us right away and we could decide on him shortly." He stated that they might chose 1 guy quickly and leave the other guy til later in the season. Anyway, I was wondering if you had any clue who he could be referring to here. A quick perusal of your upper levels seem to narrow it down pretty much to Gamel (obviously the Met fan preference) or Herrera, and since Herrera was just recently on waivers and we seemingly passed on him to allow him to reach you, I highly doubt there's much interest there. But of course, I could absolutely be overlooking someone. So hoping you guys might be able to weigh in and shed some light. Thanks a lot all!