Thundercat32

The age to competition level point is obviously extremely valid. However, it's not the be all, end all. By that measurement, Justin Upton is suppose to be the right-handed hitting equivalent of Barry Bonds by now. I could probably do some research and find a dozen examples of players who either exceeded expectations at a young age, but failed to continue that arch in later years, or players who underachieved compared to expectations at a younger age, but excelled into all star level players in later years. Markakis falls into the category of players who excelled at a younger age, but have fallen off since. I'm talking about Haniger growing into a 2015 version of Nick Markakis. Although, Chris Coghlan is also a fair expectation, and yes, he is a 4th outfielder.

Went into detail on the Haniger & Parra evaluations in a separate poster earlier because other people were asking about that too... Just quickly to address your last question. I believe an intelligent organization should be aware of their probability to win vs the post-season pool and make the corresponding moves intelligently vs those odds. i.e. when your team is stronger vs the pool of opponents in a playoffs bracket, you should be willing to give up a higher level of prospect(s) than you would when your team is weaker vs the pool of opponents in a playoffs bracket. I'm pretty take it or leave it on Melvin. I have no way of knowing this, but if I had to venture a guess, I would say that he probably wants to make a lot of smart moves that Attanasio nixes due to financial reasons. I'm holding Melvin's feet to the fire on the Parra trade because I don't think Attanasio made him do that. I think he did that one of his own accord. If anyone deserves the Brewers' fans contempt it's Mark Attanasio. It's really sad that we're hoping to stockpile young talent, when we already had a great core of young talent in Gomez, Lucroy, Segura, and parts like Khris Davis and Mike Fiers. Come opening day 2017, all of those guys will be gone (outside of maybe Davis). And for what, so that in 2021 when a guy like Gatewood, or Santana, or Medeiros are up & playing well we have to sell them away for more prospects too because Attanasio won't open his pocketbook? (I guess, unless your name is Kyle Lohse).

Honestly, looking at Haniger a bit closer, I do think that I have had him a bit overrated. I think that's for two reasons. I hated the Parra trade the moment I heard of it. I despised it. The guy's first name should be Sub, so he'd show up for what he is on the lineup card, Sub Parra. Also, the Brewers' farm system was pretty thin last year at the trade deadline. Haniger was a top 15 organizational prospect. I think I have him overrated a bit because after last year's fantastic draft, I wanted to hold onto our top prospects and watch the farm system grow & mature. Certainly, if you're going to break that up, you do it for someone better than Parra. So maybe I have overrated Haniger. That said, I still am optimistic about his future. I think he could easily become a Nick Markakis type, which is not bad at all.

It's common for NFL teams to draft QBs early in the NFL draft. When a team drafts a terrible QB early, they're not excused from making a poor decision because the practice of drafting QBs early in the draft is common. I don't understand your logic here.

So is Nick Markakis a 4th OF'er?

Mitchell Haniger: I like him most of all because he's patient & has plate discipline. I watched all of his at bats during 2014 Spring Training (he hit .500 with a 938 SLG, granted same sample only 19 PAs), and I liked what I saw. The Brewers organization, itself, was raving about his 2013 Arizona Fall League were he posted a .354 OBP & a 834 OPS over 113 PAs. People are down on him because he struggled at AA in '14. The Dbacks even started him off at high A ball this year, which he crushed to the tune of a 1048 OPS. He's a guy who just needs more PAs. Over 174 at AA so far this year he has a 351 OBP, the SLG isn't there at 379, but he's lowered his K rate & increased his walk rate. It's really early to sour on a guy who's shown promise vs big league pitching in spring training & top prospects at the AFL. Also, his speed, defense, and arm play at the big league level right now. A Nick Markakis projection for Haniger is super fair. Gerardo Parra: He was an afterthought international signing at 17 back in 2004. It took him 5 years to make the majors, which is great at 22, but he's no Miguel Sano, for example. He's a guy who without his defense would post negative WAR #s. When the Brewers acquired him he had a career 90 wRC+. League average is 100, but league average for outfielders and 1b is 110-115. 90 is a weak-hitting back up infielder type like Johnny Giavotella (who has a 93 wRC+ so far in '15). That's the "big" bat the Brewers traded for last year. Yes, Parra is having a great year this year. Thank God, or the Brewers would of been stuck holding his "hot potato". Parra's benefitting from a .372 babip this year, the highest recorded babip in history was .363, so we know .372 is unsustainable and an example of running extremely well this deep into a season, especially. League average babip this year is .298 for example. Also, Parra's home run to fly ball rate is over 50% higher than his career average. It may help him reach his second double digit home run total of his career. Oh boy. Yes, he's a Gold Glove defender, but the Brewers had Gomez in Centerfield, Segura at SS, and Lucroy behind the plate, I really don't think they needed to deplete the farm system to add defense last year. What they needed was a bat, and what they added was Johnny Giavotella.

All I'll say for now is Gerardo Parra is being wayyyyyyyyyyy overvalued in this thread, and Mitchell Haniger is being severely undervalued, as well.

It's a Thundercat thread. Just enjoy. Hey dlk9s, take that act back to twoplustwo, alright?

What's confusing about this thread? All I'm doing is asking "Are we contenders or are we in rebuild mode?" Followed by, "If we are in rebuild mode, then why aren't we dealing Lucroy and Braun? Why is Gomez the only big piece to go?" Because Braun's contract is an albatross and Lucroy can be moved for prospects at a later date? Also, no one really knows if Doug has tried to trade both of them already. So it's moot to discuss. We have no idea what the market is for those two. Doug seems to be good at getting value in trades and holding firm. Like TT and Hammond are good at drafting. We are in rebuild mode. You wonder about the Parra trade and it being an accident on this return. They were in first place contending for the division when they made that trade. Front office thought it was building for a playoff run. But things didn't pan out end of last year and this year has been a dumpster fire. They realized the window is closed and are rebuilding. My question is, how is that not obvious? There's no conspiracy theory going on here. They made a run last year, didn't work out. Window is now closed. Sell, sell, sell. I'm suppose to offer Melvin a free pass because he could be talking to teams about Lucroy & Braun? I mean, it's a fair point; that said, there's no brownie points in baseball for trying--there's only points for results. When does Lucroy have more value; at this year's trade deadline or in the off-season or at next year's trade deadline? You're telling me that the Cardinals wouldn't of offered something for Braun? I don't buy that. For Christ's sake they seriously overpaid for Brandon Moss. I think they would of loved to have Braun, regardless of his contract. And they're not opposed to taking on cheaters. They're the ones who invented hacking into another organization's network and stealing all of its scouting information. Yes, they were in first place last year, and yes it made sense to add a left-handed bat to their lineup. No, as a matter of fact, Hell No! the answer was not Gerardo Parra. To put it bluntly he sucks. You don't trade a top 5 organizational prospect for Parra. You don't trade a top 25 organizational prospect for Gerardo Parra. You offer the Diamondbacks a bag of baseballs, $200k, and the lowest level developmental lottery ticket prospect that you have--like the Brewers just took on from the Cardinals in Malik Collymore. That's why the Cardinals are good, and the Brewers are not. Evaluating talent and not getting desperate.

The Pence trade is acceptable because A) Pence is an all-star level player and Parra is major league defender and a well below league average hitter, B) the Giants were in a better position to compete in the 2012 post-season than the Brewers were to compete in the 2014 post-season, and C) what the Giants gave up to acquire Pence was a better price than what the Brewers paid for Parra.

As I posted in the Parra trade thread, it's something I believe happened by total accident. Do you think the Brewers had this plan in place at the time of the trade for Parra? Are you serious? They were in first place. Their plan at the time was to make the playoffs and try to win the WS, the team fell apart and here we are Their clear plan right now is to rebuild. I don't know what's not clear about it? Lucroy will be traded in the next year or so, they need him to start hitting again and stay healthy. Braun is it's own separate issue that's been beaten to death on here already. Where is this love for Gerardo Parra coming from? I don't think that you were implying it directly, but you're indirectly comparing him to adding Hunter Pence or Matt Holliday. Like I asked Patrick, did acquiring Parra put them in position to contend with the Nationals? the Dodgers? the Cardinals?... even the Pirates? I don't think it did. I think it was a desperate move to add a left-handed bat, a move that had been ignored since spring training. I think they seriously overpaid for a very mediocre 4th outfielder, and I think the increase to their probability of winning the World Series was minuscule. I also think it demonstrates that they do not have an organizational plan. They just react. The Kyle Lohse signing was reactionary. I don't think they had a plan for Prince Fielder. I think they just sat on the pot and couldn't decide whether to [expletive deleted by moderator] or not, and time ran out, so they let him walk... I don't see any evidence, outside of the past 2 drafts, and the Gomez deal that this front office has any consistent idea of what they're doing from one month to the next.

What's confusing about this thread? All I'm doing is asking "Are we contenders or are we in rebuild mode?" Followed by, "If we are in rebuild mode, then why aren't we dealing Lucroy and Braun? Why is Gomez the only big piece to go?"

As I posted in the Parra trade thread, it's something I believe happened by total accident. Do you think the Brewers had this plan in place at the time of the trade for Parra?

I'm not an expert on the MLB draft slotting system, but I understand it in general terms. What do you perceive me to not understand about it? Why do you think Haniger playing 10 years is a joke? Why is everyone so down on Haniger in this forum? And maybe more importantly why is everyone so high on Gerardo Parra?

Hunter Pence is a good example. However, the Giants got a bargain price for him. Also, they could of dealt Madison Bumgarner back when "Timmay" Lincecum and Matt Cain were the 2 young aces to take the Giants into the post-season for the next decade, but they weren't short-sighted. Too bad for us, because there were rumors of a Corey Hart for Madison Bumgarner deal. The Giants' obviously evaluate talent well, which why they're in the playoffs so frequently... I'd like to know if we ever offered Prince for Bumgarner, though. You are right about the difference between a team being built on hitting vs a team being built on pitching. That's our problem. Also, the Rays lock up who they need to lock up. Archer is signed to a team-friendly contract through 2019 with club options in '20 & '21. Say Medeiros comes up late in '16 and impresses, then starts the '17 season out on a tear, will the Brewers be as wise to lock Medeiros up to a long term, team friendly contract as well?

They have almost zero chance of a 2016 World Series season Carlos Gomez will be a free agent after the 2016 season They wouldn't have been able to keep Gomez past 2016 anyways. They received terrific young prospects for Gomez & Fiers I love the Gomez trade. I just hate the Parra trade last year. The Gomez trade this year, just highlights how bad the Parra trade was last year from an organizational growth standpoint.

No, I'm not saying that you, necessarily, should take the same approach every year at the trade deadline--although, if your farm system is as strong as the Astros, Cubs, or Rangers, then I am saying you let that play itself out. What I am saying, specific to the Gerardo Parra deal, is that A) you trade for a hitter with a better career OPS than 721 and a higher career wRC+ than 90. Those are journeyman numbers. It's god awful to trade a 1st round draft pick for a player like that. And B) you have a better idea of where you're at in the standings, and what your playoff chances are before you make a deal that diminishes your future. Acquiring Parra last year put the Brewers in contention with the Nationals? the Dodgers? the Cardinals?... Did it even bring them up to par with the Pirates? Honestly, I think it was a desperation play to add a left-handed bat to a right-handed dominated lineup, which demonstrates a lack of foresight by the front office. Not having a quality left-handed bat in the lineup is something that was stated several times by the national media during the 2014 spring training. It hurt the Brewers during the 1st half of the 2014 season. But this front office is reactionary. It does not plan ahead very well at all--if at all.

The problem with this is when you take a supplemental pick, like Mitch Haniger, and then (pardon my French here) "dick around" with him. Someone posted earlier in this thread that Haniger is a at best 4th outfielder prospect with the Dbacks. No sir, he's a potential Nick Markakis type in right field, good defense, excellent arm, great plate discipline, and will hit for average. He's an at worst 4th outfielder prospect. If they don't trade Parra for Davies, and wind up with a supplemental pick for him, what they'll of done is a kin to taking a $100 bill, going out in the backyard, digging a hole, burying the $100 bill, and digging it back up in 3 years. When the clearly better approach is to go deposit that $100 bill in a savings account at the bank and let it accrue interest. Even if they do land Davies, it looks to me like they'll of gotten there by accident. It doesn't seem like they have a very consistent, well-thought-out plan in place that they adhere to. Edit: Looks like the deal for Davies is finalized. Still stand by my statement that they backed into returning value from the Haniger trade. But, hey I'll take it.

As a Brewers' fan, I'm troubled by what the front office is doing. Not having a long-term plan and/or not sticking to that plan is how you go a decade without making the playoffs. I don't see how you can trade for Parra (giving up Mitchell Haniger, your only piece from letting Prince walk) last year, and then follow that up this year by trading away a centerpiece of your team. Personally, I'm against trading prospects for trade deadline additions. My memory fails me, but I don't think it's led to a team winning in the post-season since maybe the 2009 Yankees? I can't remember who they added at the deadline or if they added someone. It certainly didn't lead to the Giants winning last year, the Red Sox in '13, the Giants in '12, Cards in '11, or the Giants in '10 (although, it almost worked for the Rangers that year adding Cliff Lee). I think it's especially bad for a small market team. You don't see the Rays doing it, for example. I actually hate it for the Astros. Why take the mountain of young, talented, cost-controlled pool of prospects that you have and move them for anyone? Christ Jesus, Houston, you've been bad for this long, you can't wait another 2 years to let these guys mature and start to gel together? I hate it for the Cubs too. Although, trading for Tyson Ross makes a little more sense for them than say the Rangers trading away 6 prospects (SIX!) for Cole Hamels. Because A) Ross is younger & on the way up as opposed to on the way down, and B) the Cubs don't have as many top-tier, near-mlb-ready starting pitchers in their pool of prospects as the Rangers do. That said, Ross is a heavy slider usage SP (throws the slider 36%, which is 5% higher than any other pitch he throws), so the Cubs better find out what Dr. James Andrews customary down payment is because Tyson Ross is on a collusion course for an appointment with the good doctor. Ready for the kicker? Apparently, the Brewers are set to trade Parra now too. SMH (Shake My Head). You gotta be kidding me. The Brewers drafted Haniger because Roenicke's son played with him & loved him, and so did their scouts. So give the guy more than a cup of coffee and 985 minor league PAs (Plate Appearances) before you pull the plug on him. Especially, for a 4th outfielder with a career 721 OPS and 90 wRC+, when the Brewers acquired him, in Gerardo Parra. And what'd the Brew Crew get out of the guy? Last year, when the Brewers were in contention and making their push for the playoffs, they received a total of 134 PAs from Parra. That's what became of the 38th overall pick in the 2012 draft. Now, some may say "Yeah, but Haniger's fallen off a cliff this year". It's true that Haniger was thought of more highly when he was with the Brewers than he has been with the Diamondbacks. I was surprised to see him ranked as only the Dbacks' 28th best prospect by mlb.com. That said, part of his slip has been due to injury, and when he's been healthy he's been good to great. He killed high A for the Diamondbacks this year. He's also only 24 years old. I'm also noticing a trend when it comes to ranking prospects. Look at the current top 100 mlb prospects rankings on mlb.com. Two players, who were just drafted 54 days ago, from this year's draft are among the top 12 players ranked. They're ranked ahead of Michael Conforto and Alex Jackson, both of whom were top 10 picks in last year's draft, and both of whom were vaulted as future perennial all-stars. It seems like a real recency bias. In fact, one of the top players from this year's draft ranked in the top 12, Dansby Swanson, will likely plummet in next spring's rankings because he's already had a setback suffering a mild concussion after being struck in the face with a pitch that required him to get 14 stitches. It's almost like prospects have to show up from day 1 and absolutely crush the minors at every step, like their name is Kris Bryant, or they drop in the rankings. It actually reminds me of how NBA draft prospects are better served to come out as freshman or sophomores rather than stay around longer and have their game picked apart. So, here's my question now. What's the point of keeping any valuable asset past the trade deadline? Our best player, Jonathan Lucroy turns 30 next season. Sad to say, but the Brew Crew doesn't have a snowball's chance in hell of making the playoffs next year. Who's our best pitcher? Kyle Lohse? Jimmy Nelson? Taylor Jungmann? I'm a Brewers' fan who pays attention to prospects, and I can't tell you anything about Taylor Jungmann. We just gave Pittsburgh Aramis Ramirez on a salary dump. This front office doesn't have any intention of competing next year (which comes one year too late for those of us excited about seeing Haniger patrol right field for the next 10 years in Milwaukee). I mean, seriously; why hold onto anyone at this point? Ryan Braun? Why? To sell tickets next year? Nothing but question marks, as this front office leaves me scratching my head. The troubling thing is we had a great draft last year. We had a good draft this year; although, getting Donny Everett signed is where you take chances, in my opinion, not on Gerardo Parra-type acquisitions. So the kid wouldn't sign for $2.5 mil, then offer $3.5 mil, offer $4 mil, it's cheaper than signing Kyle Lohse types to fill out a rotation in free agency, and it's more likely to lead an organization to the playoffs too. But, I guess I can't fault the front office too much for that; they did select him and make a reasonable offer. I hope they keep taking that approach. We have a good pool of prospects now at least. We certainly have the outfield covered. Trent Clark, Brett Phillips, Domingo Santana, Montee Harrison, among others. Shortstop looks to be in hand too with our best prospect, Orlando Arcia and Gilbert Lara & Jacob Gatewood behind him in the depth chart; although, Gatewood is unlikely to make the bigs as a shortstop even if Arcia wasn't blocking his path. I like the young crop of arms too. Kodi Medeiros, Josh Hader, Cody Ponce, and a half dozen others. To me, the path is clear. Bolster this young crop of talent and wait for it to mature ala the Kansas City Royals. If they made Lucroy available the return would be astronomical. Ryan Braun lands you a project-able middle of the rotation arm & a project-able bat, at the minimum. I can't believe K-Rod hasn't been traded already. You'd like to think we're trying to move Lohse. I don't see us making him a qualifying offer; at least dear Lord I hope we don't... This team needs to be blown up. This dipping one toe in the pool, but not being able to decide if you want to jump in thing that the Brewers are doing is a recipe for disaster.

You make a great point SRB. I'm certainly not privy to any inter-office memos in the Brewers' front office, so they always have to be given the benefit of the doubt because they have more information than we do. However, the spine tilt delivery is real & that's something we can garner just by watching the games. I think there are other tendencies than can be picked up as well i.e. shifting too much (or not), etc. Maybe, I'm alone in this boat (I don't think I am but maybe), but I think the Brewers have to play a high reward, high risk game in player acquisition. That's the single most exciting aspect of this year's draft to me. Our top 3 picks all have All Star ceilings & an above average amount of risk associated with them for players taken in the top 50 selections. That's perfect! I've been really nervous the past 2 plus years that Attanasio & Melvin were going to play this patch work game of going out & signing the Kyle Lohses, Matt Garzas, & Lyle Overbays of the world every off-season in an effort to keep the team just interesting enough to keep the turnstiles moving. Granted the Brewers excel at that & even in the draft you need to pick up value every chance you get with guys like Dustin DeMuth. Still, championships aren't won by limiting upside. This is an exciting time to be a Brewers' fan. I haven't read, but I'm sure Mitch Haniger has gotten a lot of love on this forum (and rightfully so). You couple him with our young guys at the major league level already, Carlos Gomez, Jonathan Lucroy, Khris Davis, Jean Segura, and to a lesser extent Scooter Gennett, Wily Peralta, & Jimmy Nelson who's a strong bullpen arm at the very worst, and you have a formidable team emerging. I hope the Brewers can streamline their organizational philosophy towards this direction & not limit the incredible amount of upside that already exists here.

Ok. Yeah, I'm gonna search for that again & see if I can't post a link. I know it said something to the effect of whether or not to postpone a game before the game has started is up to the home team, but once the game has started it's left to the sole discretion of the umpire crew chief. After that is where it said that the delay must be a minimum of 30 minutes. It could of mentioned lightning, but I don't think so. Gonna go look that up tho...

I tuned out in the bottom of the 9th & then came back with the top of the 11th in progress. The Mets' announcer said something about Germen getting a strike out before the delay & then after the delay when he struck out Gomez. I read somewhere a couple weeks ago (whenever the Kershaw @ Phi game went to a rain delay) that when an umpire calls for a rain delay that it has to last for a minimum of 30 minutes. Just curious, because of what I read, how long was the delay tonight?

Thanks EB@N. I can't take credit for the Brewer Lean observation that was Doug Thorburn all the way. I've been a big follower of the podcast he does with Paul Sporer at Baseball Prospectus called TINSTAAPP (There Is No Such Thing As A Pitching Podcast). They only put out podcasts every 2-3 weeks or so, but their podcasts are usually 2 hours plus & filled with great content. Here's a link: http://www.baseballprospectus.com/blog/TINSTAAPP/ (you can also find them on Itunes if you search for TINSTAAPP, which their latest episodes only seem to be available there). Oh & I recommend episode 19 in particular because they break down all of the prospects that many of us aren't real familiar with. Guys that are just now coming up your Kevin Gausman, Eddie Butler types & guys still on their way Noah Syndergaard, Archie Bradley, Jonathan Gray types. The Medeiros to Bumgarner comparison was my own brain child, but I'm actually hoping that Doug replies to a tweet I sent him, so I can get his opinion on how concerning Medeiros' elbow drag is. Initially Doug gave Medeiros favorable grades on his mechanics, so that's encouraging. I play a lot of fantasy baseball, so I find it really helpful to scout the newer pitchers. Guys with small sample sizes where I may not be able to discern anything valuable from their stats. Recently, I watched Jesse Hahn's MLB debut vs the Pirates. I'm glad I did for two reasons. First, just judging from the box score you'd think he was terrible (3.2 ip 4 ER 6 H 2 BB 5 Ks & 2 HR allowed). Hahn actually pitched well I thought. Neil Walker took a curveball that was located low & away to the opposite field & just over the left center wall. That was just an amazing piece of hitting. There's no way to hold that against Hahn. Hahn's curve is legit with sharp 12-6 drop, and his 2-seam fastball has good life to it. He'll induce a lot of groundballs with that 2-seamer. The other reason is with the combination of researching Hahn that day & never having seen him pitch before, something just clicked when I watched him. I was able to recognize his 2 seam fastball from his 4 seam fastball. Also, probably I've just watched enough pitchers now that I'm starting to pick up on little things like that, but it was a cool moment for me. Usually, I scout the new SPs because that gives me the biggest edge over my opponents. I can post that stuff here if you guys are interested. Or maybe I could look at some of the Brewers' arms & put something together if there's more interest in that. Thanks again for the kind words EB@N.

Sorry I came across as sarcastic to you... I was being serious I just thought it was kinda funny that you wrote yourself off as not that sharp, & followed it up with a great post. Wow. My bad TLB. I thought you were trying to say something to the effect of why should I listen to you, you're not a professional pitching coach? Really sorry that I took your post the wrong way. It's funny too because opinions on pitching mechanics vary. Two guys who I both respect differ on Yovani Gallardo's mechanics. One feels that his mechanics are very poor & the other thinks they're just fine, borderline good. To some degree it's a matter of what you emphasize. That's another thing that makes me happy with the Medeiros' pick. The Brewers teach this exaggerated spine tilt method where a pitcher's arm reaches up as high as it can to get on top of the ball & create as much downward plane on the baseball as possible. The benefits: you miss up & down in the zone & don't miss inside or outside nearly as much. You create more groundballs. The drawbacks: It's very difficult to repeat consistently. It decreases release distance & it's a precursor for shoulder injuries. So, I was really happy the Brewers were taking a kid that they (hopefully) won't be able to put into their pitching model. His delivery is so unique, so funky, I think they're just gonna have to let him be who he is. Really glad that I was mistaken about your earlier post. I was actually kinda bummed because the quality of posting in this thread has been really, really good. And that's not empty applause. I spend a lot of time on different websites & forums, and you guys really know your stuff in here. It's a pleasure to be part of this forum. Edit: Oh yeah, I meant to cite the Medeiros pick against Tyler Beede too. See the Beede pick would make me nervous, because he has had issues with his delivery & with his control. I think the Brewers would try to mold him into one of their guys with this exaggerated spine tilt. Actually here are some images of "the Brewer Lean" courtesy of Doug Thorburn from Baseball Prospectus (taken from the SP guide produced by Doug Thorburn & Paul Sporer, something that I recommend everyone interested in knowing starting pitchers better picks up. It's only $18) Yovani Gallardo's Spine Tilt http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p103/Thundercat32/YovaniGallardoSpineTilt.png Wily Peralta's Spine Tilt http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p103/Thundercat32/WilyPeraltaSpineTilt.png Marco Estrada's Spine Tilt http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p103/Thundercat32/MarcoEstradaSpineTilt.png Tyler Thornburg's Spine Tilt http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p103/Thundercat32/TylerThornburgSpineTilt.png See the head isn't suppose to be tilted so far away from the body at release point. Gallardo's head is tilted so far towards first base that he could probably read signs from the Brewers' dugout (Wrigley Field one of the few parks where the home team's dugout is along the 3rd base side). I'm almost certain that the Brewers would of had Beede doing this same thing. Which doesn't mean that they'd "ruin" him necessarily, but I think this type of delivery limits a pitcher's upside. You can be successful with it, Yo has, but it's far from the optimal delivery from what I've seen. Definitely happy that we took Medeiros. I don't think the Brewers can mold him into an exaggerated spine tilt delivery clone. Hopefully they don't try that, anways. For perspective this is what an ideal posture looks like at release point. From a pitcher that Medeiros has been compared to Chris Sale (granted Sale has his own problems in his delivery just not with posture or release point). Chris Sale at Release Point http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p103/Thundercat32/ChrisSalePosture.png For comparison's sake, here is Clayton Kershaw at Release Point. This would be considered average posture at release point. http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p103/Thundercat32/KershawPosture.png

Dude. Keep posts like this coming. Great insight. I don't get paid to analyze pitching mechanics, so I'm not a professional. I'm just getting started breaking down mechanics, in fact. But, we all have to start somewhere. Would it be fair to say that you're not a professional pitching mechanics analyst either, and that you have the same uncertainty about Medeiros' mechanics as I do? Because your reply, while not only sarcastic, makes it seem like you have some matter of authority on this subject, and if that's the case, I'd be happy to hear it.