Wahoo Maniac

I just don’t think fire sale is the right term for what the Brewers would be trying to accomplish by selling. The idea of a “Baseball Fire Sale” is to trade players away for the mere sake of salary relief more so than any sort of valuable return. It’s a financial reset of sorts where you start over with younger, cheaper players. I don’t think the Brewers primary motivation would be to shed expensive contracts, I think they would be looking to receive some value from players that aren’t likely to be part of their plan in 2020. Like we’ve both stated, the Brewers are several losses away yet from the idea of selling becoming a reality. Interesting. I never felt it was solely tied to finances just thought that was merely one aspect of it. Thanks

Trading players on expiring contracts like Grandal (and Moustakas) isn’t a fire sale. They have just 16 games remaining in July. I agree that they would need to lose a lot more games (probably at least 10+), but I don’t think 10 games out would be the parameter for selling. If they end up greater than 6.0 games out of both the division and wild card with several teams between them and the playoff position, then I would be disappointed if they didn’t engage in the concept of selling. I’ve brought it up before in the sell thread (link), but the 2016 Yankees are a good example of an average team that used a few trades at the deadline to improve their future outlook. If you're trading Grandal and Moose then you're trading Thames, Chacin, Albers and everyone else with an expiring contract/option and letting young guys/Shaw take over and calling it a season. You don't need to make every single player available in order for it to be a fire sale. I used 10 games just as an example, not the bar that I'm setting, meaning if we're out by a sizeable number of games then it would make sense to sell off all those guys but right now we're not. Also, the Yankees were 7 games back from the division and WC after July 31 and in 4th place in their division with 3 other teams within .5 game of each other. We'd have to lose a week's worth of games straight in order to fall into the Yankees position.

You value Arcia, Peralta, Ray highly. Many others look at how they are performing and don't see anywhere near what you do. Arcia is not playing that well. CC said his defense is lacking and he is hitting .238/.300.. The Jays have Galvis at SS and he is out performing Arcia. Peralta has been rocked consistently the last two years. He has been decent at times, but his lack of secondary pitches is a glaring weakness. Ray had one year where he hit a lot of HRs, but he hasn't hit above .240 from A+ through AAA ball. Right now none of the three would headline a package for Stroman. The difference between me and you (along with many others) is that I make sure to objectively analyze each player while factoring in as many variables as possible, including those that can't be measured statistically, as opposed to looking at a final stat line believing that tells the entire story. I've CLEARLY stated it's based on how the Jays (insert any other team here) value Arcia. I've never once said Arcia has excellent value. I've said he holds plenty of value still due to his pedigree, age, control (3.5yrs), defense (which will come back to plus) and offensive flashes (if the Jays believe he develops more consistency they'll value him highly). Yes, the Jays have Galvis who has an option for next year where he's set to make 5.5M whereas Arcia is heading into arbitration and what do you think he'll make after his 2018/2019? A: nowhere near 5.5M then he'll have an additional 2yrs control after that. Will Galvis continue to perform at that level or at his previous level, in which case Arcia holds more value due to the aforementioned. Peralta, like Arcia, is talented but lacks consistency. He's flashed domination at this level at ages 21/22. He has a plus curve and pretty decent change so if the control of those pitches become more consistent (and actually called since we never call them) he's a very good rotation arm then. Again, young with potential who's flashed at this level. A young, talented MLB player who's flashed dominance has more value than most prospects. Also, Shane Bieber got hit last year too giving up 10.2 H9. A year later he's an AS. He obviously has more control than Peralta so can consistently use his secondary pitches. But Peralta is a year younger and has cut his BB9 almost in half while keeping his K9 the same. There's been improvements incertain areas and setbacks in others. When it comes to Ray you're intentionally ignoring context and other variables. He's made mechanical adjustments since his first season and if I recall correctly, essentially played all of A+ with a knee injury affecting him. Then came back 100% healthy for the first time since being drafted and put up a big AA. No, he didn't just hit a bunch of HR. He hit 32 doubles, 7 triples, stole 37 bases, had a OBP 85pts higher than his BA with a 137 wrc+ playing good defense in CF (premium position). And while 1yr young for level isn't that young you also need to factor in that the greatest jump in the minors is jumping into AA. Ray then looked great in spring training until he broke his finger or tore a ligament in it (whatever it was) then he played April with that injury before he was shut down. He didn't perform like garbage "then" get injured - he was injured before the regular season began hence my statement nobody is going to buy into his performance this April because he was injured (fingers are kind of important for hitters). He was put back in the Top 100 heading into this season, meaning scouts/teams (not all obviously) see a lot of potential in him. Other teams might value him as the 3rd best prospect in our system while others might value him as the top (excluding Hiura here). He absolutely has value regardless. I don't expect us to trade for Stroman anyway. I just think him and Giles should at least be targets and I think we're in a spot right now where trading some young MLB talent is the way to go instead of just prospects.

This is correct. But it only applies if said team isn't competitive. They're 1.5 games back in the division right now and .5 games back in WC. You're not making decisions to sell them off right now.

I wouldn't trade Grandal as we're 1.5 games out of the division with a lot of games left. If we fall 10 games back by the end of July then you can do a fire sale but I don't see that happening.

At the start of the year when this team was on a roll, it was a non issue. Did Grandal suddenly start calling for different pitches in different situations? I highly doubt it. I don't know who you're referring to but I've been saying Grandal sucks at calling pitches since game one with us. It's obvious too. Last night was a great example of it with the entire pen. One example, him forcing Burnes to pound inside sliders all day except they were just sitting and spinning. So instead of moving off that to low and away to force him to release it out front more and get that feel back he continues to pound inside while Longoria continued to foul off bullets. A guy locked in fouling off inside pitches all day should probably see a low and away slider but that would make too much sense. The slider is Albers best pitch and he should be throwing it often. Instead he has him throwing fastballs and changeups until after the granny. Then he had him pound the slider. It's brutal to watch

No. But I've heard Harley's is good. His suit was black with thick white pinstripes - the kind that makes you wonder if Dick Tracy is after him. Terrible choice

Great read there. He threw 11 innings in A+ and they wanted to get him stiffer competition. He's thrown 37ip in AA now and with around 8wks left in the season I'd have to think it makes sense to give him a taste of AAA heading into next season. If the Brewers weren't competitive I think we'd see his MLB debut this year. I can see them giving him 50 innings in AA then moving him to AAA, which should allow for him to get around 25 innings there. All goes well he just might push for a pen spot in spring training.

I very much doubt that gets it done. A likely reliever, a guy with a starter's arsenal that bombed so bad that he had to move back to the bullpen and then back and forth between the bullpen and the minors and then a SS that's going to be entering arbitration that's maybe like a 2 WAR guy. Adding another smaller piece on to that doesn't do much. Except you're intentionally ignoring their potential based upon their skill set/ability. Two of those players have 5.5yrs control and one was a Top 50 area prospect and both have had MLB success already. So, I guess if you push all that to the side, then yeah it's terrible.

Arcia was on pace for 29 errors in A ball if played 150 games. 30 at SS in A+. 16 in AA. 24 in AAA the year he was called up the final 2 months. He had 20 in 152 games in 2017 and has played at that pace since. Turang will be a steady defender.

No, we're not reading too much into that site. He literally just chimed in saying what the numbers broke down too after it was already discussed a bit, not vice versa. Yes, I know they've said they want to deal them separately but if one team is able to offer what they're looking for in totality then why would they do two different deals? Ray had a ton of value heading into this season and broke his finger in spring training then didn't tell anyone because he wanted to play. Nobody is putting any stock into his AAA numbers. His injury isn't career altering and now he's back. The only thing that sucks is him missing the first half of the season. He has plenty of value and very well might be less than 1yr away from MLB. Of course they're going to be expensive. But Arcia, Peralta, Ray isn't remotely close to a cheap package value wise. It just matters how the Jays value a package like this over competing ones. Will other competing teams also view Stroman as the brand he is or the actual performer he is? Because his performance doesn't match his brand (ie he's performed like a really good mid-rotation while having the brand of a frontline starter)

All of them need to play to their current abilities or relatively close to it

Agree here. They're just a different animal. If anybody's ever been it's more like a minor league environment than an Indy league. I've never been to a Milkmen game and never will. Indy ball is trash. You're better off watching a Land O Lakes game for free

Brown, Ray, Erceg, M. Sanchez, Webb to me are the only that deserve consideration. I think Ray and Brown are the only guys that get protected. I see Erceg as part of a package; same goes for Ponce. Maybe they include Bickford as a flyer for someone too.

I see him as more of your favorite beer after it's gone skunky. It's been around awhile and won't be nearly as good anymore, but the liquor store is closed and you don't really have other options, so it'll get the job done. lol my first thought was to ask what shape the cork is in since that's what seals a wine's fate but I'm a wine guy so...