BADGERJOBOB

I agree that pitching is the key but it is safer to spend big money on hitting then it is on pitching. Signing Greinke to a big money 5 year contract is a much bigger risk than spending it on a great young hitter. I would only offer Prince the big contract if I felt very comfortable that 2 of my minor league pitchers are going to be able to step it up over the next couple years and if I see Gallardo take that next step up to be our ace.

I guess I am one of the very very few but you do what you can to sign a hitter like Prince if you have any faith in the Brewer's minor league system and the players we just drafted. We need replacements for Greinke, Marcum and Wolf in 2013. I think Gallardo can take a step up. I think one of the two college pitchers we drafted in the first round will be a solid impact pitcher in 2013. I think you need one more pitcher from your minors to take that one big step and then you try to sign one solid pitcher to fill in the starting rotation. I would save money by moving Hart and filling his spot with Gamel and signing a defensive shortstop that doesn't require a lot of money. If we lose Prince, the Brewer offense will take a huge step back and push us back towards .500 baseball.

I found some interesting Jackson tidbits today. From CBS sportsline: His June no-hitter seemingly forgotten, the common perception is that Jackson is having a much worse season than he did last year. With his ERA having grown by more than a run, it's easy to see where that perception comes from, but substantial increases in his strikeout and ground ball rates are among some of the positive developments Jackson has seen in 2010. With more ground balls come a few more base hits, at least on balls in play, but his .324 BABIP is probably about 15 to 20 points too high. Expect a correction for Jackson over the weeks to come. http://milfbl.baseball.cbssports.com/news/13775455/by-the-numbers-oswalt-dicek-treading-lightly Another CBS sportsline analysis: Jackson's return to Fantasy prominence is perhaps even more surprising than Daniel Hudson's arrival. In his last 29 starts leading up to the trade -- eight of them late last year -- he compiled a 5.41 ERA and a 1.50 WHIP.The longer it went on, the more his performance over his first 25 starts last year, when he posted a 2.86 ERA and a 1.19 WHIP, looked like a fluke. But pitching coach Don Cooper knew better. Doing his best rendition of Rick Peterson on Victor Zambrano, he saw a mechanical problem he thought he could fix. And unlike Peterson, he delivered. "He got in bad habits," Cooper said of Jackson. "He was collapsing more than he should. When you collapse, you get under pitches, around pitches. (Stuff) can get flat. Some parts of the plate can be much harder to attain." So can some numbers, no matter how good the stuff is. But when he's hitting his spots and staying on top of his pitches, Jackson can be as good as anybody, as he has shown with his 1.35 ERA, 1.25 WHIP and 24 strikeouts over 20 innings in three starts with the White Sox. What shouldn't go unmentioned here is the fact Jackson's pure stuff rates among the best in baseball. Always has. Only now, for perhaps the first time his career, he has the coaching to help him make the most of it. http://milfbl.baseball.cbssports.com/news/13771940

Who said anything about taking out best and worst starts? I only mentioned his very last start cost him 0.3 of an ERA because you seem to think he sucked for the last 3 months. I am all for actually looking at all his starts for the entire year. If you looked at all his starts from start to finish, he had a pretty good year overall. He didn't have a season like Ubaldo Jimenez is having this year where he was lights out for the first two months and not so good the next two months. Jackson had 4 very good months of pitching. His ERA bounced in the 2-3.00 ERA range for four months which is a significant part of the year. Yes, he tailed off at the very end (most of his September starts and 1 October start were bad). Maybe because he never pitched more than 180 innings his arm was tired. I don't know but to write off half the season is disengenious. So yea I can say "Ahhh, no" because you are not quoting statistical stats correctly. Your guessing without looking but if that floats your boat to prove your end of the arguement, go ahead. And yes last year could have been a huge fluke but you wanted one example of why anyone would trade for him and offered 4 really good pitching months that you then dismissed so it still fits your arguement.

Ahhh no. I would say a 3.36 ERA for the entire year minus the last game is a very good year overall and I would love to have the Brewers with 5 starting pitchers who pitched all season and finished the year sub 3.63. Jackson finished top 10 in AL ERA last year in pitching 33 games. You can say it was only half the season but there are not a lot of pitchers who can consistently do it all year long. Jackson had a good year overall last year. You don't like him. Great. Got it.

Depends on how you want to look at it. End of May 2.30. End of June 2.49. End of July 2.64. End of August 2.96. End of September 3.36. And only pitched one game in October where he was brutal pushed his ERA to 3.62. I really don't know much about him or his contract so I can't tell you if he is worth trading for or not 9depends on the package deal) but he did have good numbers last year for most of the season. He is only 26 years old. He has always had good stuff. Mid 90s fastball. Projected as a front of a rotation pitcher but he has lacked consistency and I think control has always been his problem but again I don't follow the guy.

Can anyone give me a stat of Edwin Jackson's that makes him look like a valuable pitcher? He can dominate some games but the guy has a 5.16 ERA this year with a 1.50 WHIP? No way in hell the White Sox put that offer in for a one year rental of Prince. The value of a 1 year rental with one world series run of Prince is lower than 1 1/2 years with 2 world series runs. Last year 33 starts 214 innings pitched. 3.62 ERA and 1.26Whip. Maybe it was a fluke year, a one time thing but he did have a good one last year.

Does Melvin value Edwin Jackson more than Hudson in a win next year mode? We have good young pitchers who will be up in our system in 2-3 years but that doesn't help us in 2011 and 2012. Does Melvin do a deal for Jackson, Vicedo(sp?) and Beckham to us for Prince? We get a major league pitcher who will be 27 at the end of the year. A replacement for Prince in 2012 and a young potential big time player in Beckham who can take over third base for us next year or packaged in a deal for a good young arm that is close to MLB ready (Beckham or Lawrie to Seattle maybe for one of their arms?). I know Williams said that Beckham was not being traded but there are tweets that he is looking at a big deal.

Sounds like we won't activate Hawkins until Saturday so it does look like someone will be moved. Who do you think it will be? Logical choices are Hoffman and Riske. Do we get anything of value for either one of those two?

Sounds like some on here want Melvin to trade Hart and Prince just to trade them and make changes. No need to trade them if you don't get any good value for them. I would rather keep them then get a bag of balls for them. Worst case scenario is they are on our roster through 2011 and we get draft pick compensation for them. Not ideal but not the end of the world. We get more high picks, and that gives us a greater chance we can find our own Mike Minor like prospect who can get to the majors quickly. Anyways, it looks like Jayson Werth has value this year and his contract is up at the end of this year so we can probably get decent comp from Prince/Hart at next year's trade deadline if we get a good offer. Prince will hit, Hart is a question mark but I would be ok with rolling the dice on him. Its not the end of the world if they are still Brewers next week. I am sure if Melvin can get a Baumgardner or Hellickson or someone of that talent, a deal will be made.

Edwin Jackson on the market with a very manageable salary. How do we get him a 3 way trade. Beckham and Hudson plus for Prince. Beckham and what for Jackson?

I think when all is said and done, Prince will be a White Sox before the deadline. Williams likes to think outside the box and desparately wants to make a big deal. He will figure out a way to get Prince and I think in all likelihood this ends up being a 7 or 8 player blockbuster deal. I can see Prince, Parra and a minor leaguer going to Sox for Beckham, Dan Hudson, Dayan Viciedo and solid young minor league pitcher (A level) with potential for upside. And if we do get Beckham, are we able to spin him off in another package deal with Hart for top level arms say Madison Baumgarner who is ready now and say Sosa who is maybe 2 years away? Out: Prince, Hart, Parra, Beckham In: Baumgarner, Sosa, Hudson, Viciedo, Single A level solid pitcher Starting rotation next year: Gallardo, Wolf, Baumgarner, Hudson, #5 pitcher Have Sosa (future starting pitcher with upside) and Viciedo (future firstbasemen) coming up maybe 2012. Along with Odorizzi and Heckathorn replacing Wolf and #5 pitcher, our starting pitching should be set for the next 4-7 years.

You can't just look at his two losses and say well his bad stat lines didn't have an outcome on the game. You have to look at his overall affect on our pitching staff and the roster. Him taking a pitching spot on this team cost the Brewers games. In other words, would we have won more games if we had another effective pitcher in the bullpen. If Braddock was here all year does he get used in the 7th or 8th inning to keep a lead or stay in a close game? Does Hoffman or Hawkins have a shorter leash with another arm in the bullpen, etc. Suppan has been horrible and was never used in meaningful games because he was horrible. He contributed to our bullpen being overused. He cost us games, I just don't think anyone is really able to quantify how many games that might be. What I can say is that we would be less then 9 or 10 games back that we are now.

Yea that would not be good. I think if Hart is traded, we would hopefully see an outfield of Braun/Cain/FA outfielder with money saved from any Hart/Fielder deal. An established veteran who can get us through a year or two until someone from the minors is ready to step up. Also, while home runs are great, nothing wrong with manufacturing runs. Yes we lose a lot of home runs if we trade Hart/Fielder but this club relies way too much on the home run and we do have 3 other players on this club who will hit 25 plus home runs. We need more diversity with our offense. High on-base guys, speed guys, good hit and run guys. A good on-base guy with some speed and a manager who actually uses the speed, the bunt, the hit and run, the double steal, basically what he has at his disposal and we can get by offensively as long as we greatly improve our starting pitching. The question is, can we greatly improve our starting pitching by trading Hart/Fielder.

I don't consider that a haul at all. Hudson projects as a number 3 pitcher. Is that what we really expect to get out of a Prince trade. One potential number 3 pitcher? This team needs pitching, and by pitching I mean good pitching, high projectability not average albeit cheap MLB ready pitching. If we don't get more than a number 3 pitcher than we might as well just keep him around another year and a half and roll the dice with additional draft picks that we can spend on yes cheap pitching, and focus on average arms, average potential that is close to MLB ready (YUCK!). And while Beckham might be great, we have hitters in the minors and we have McGehee blocking him at third with Gamel in the mix as well. Last thing I want is to start another round of musical chairs of moving players all over the field and in essence continuing the status quo of deteriorating our defensive capabilities for offensive potential. Pitching and defense first and foremost and we can worry about offense later.

I don't know, I guess I would trade him if we get great value for him. I guess its more of a testament of how bad our pitching staff is that he actually looks good to me.

We need top end pitching. Wolf is a 3 and you can always go buy a 3. The established FA 1s and 2s are hard to buy, see CC Sabathia. We need to somehow get more 1s or 2s even if they are 2 plus years away. If Hart can't get us one, I would put Hart into a package deal that does get us one. Does Hart and Lawrie get us one? Teams do get desparate when they feel like they are 1 player away from being a legit championship contender. Less so recently but lots of past successful teams are in a fight to make the playoffs (NY, Boston, Atlanta, Philly) and they might part with a very good prospect for the right players.

Yuck. We don't need back end starters. Our major and minor league roster is full of them. We need front end pitching to go along with Gallardo. What will it take to get Teheran or Vizcaino?

I'm all for trading EVERYONE except Gallardo, Braddock, Loe and Axford. The problem with this team is pitching and defense. We have hitters but who cares when they give up just as many runs on the field as they hit in. Buyers or sellers? Are you kidding me? This team, the way it is constructed will not finish anywhere near .500. You have to be blind not to see that. We have too many players with the same skill set. Lots of power, little else. If Melvin was smart, he would sell, sell, sell if he can get any decent value. Hoffman, Hart, Villy, Coffey, Wolf and Bush should all be gone at the trading deadline. Prince will make it through the year before we get full value in any trade. Would love to see Davis go too but that is a pipe dream. Minor leaguers should go too if we need to package them in deals to get young talented pitchers. If Lawrie and Gamel can not be an adequate defenders next year, I would trade them too. Package as many as you can to get good young pitching with higher ceilings and none of this potential #3 or #4 starters in return. We have a lot of #4 starters already. We need 2 more upper echelon pitchers to go along with Gallardo. You would think with Prince, Hart, McGehee, Weeks, Villy, Lawrie, etc., we should be able to get the two really good young pitchers. Then use the money we save to sign a legit in their prime good FA pitcher. Build a staff, then surround them with average to above average defenders and worry about hitting later. Bottom line is we give away way too many runs with bad pitching and bad defense.

A little disappointed in our minor leaguers as I don't think any of our minor leaguers are untouchables. Its great that we have a lot of depth but we have very very few potential star players. I don't see a Prince, Braun or Yo type player that is a step away from making a huge impact in the majors. Braddock might be able to step in as a closer and thats it. Lucroy, Gamel and Lawrie all have shortcomings and are not projected as star players. If I was Melvin I would have to seriously look at trading Prince if we could get 1 legit potential future star player thats a year away and I would package any and a large quantity of my current minor leaguers for a legit younger upper echlon player that would get paid less than Prince (What would a Braddock, Lawrie/Gamel, Lucroy based package get you?). We have the depth to slot in equally talented replacements that might be only one additional year out.

Cheez-wiz is right on. Gomez should lead-off with Weeks batting second. Weeks is good at working the count which would allow Gomez more an opportunity to use his speed to steal second. Why have Gomez bunt Weeks over when Weeks and Gomez can get second on their own without giving up an out. I personally hate giving up outs unless it is late in games. Gomez gets neutered a bit with Brauny batting right after him. The key is can Gomez get on base. I would consider using the hot batter between Gomez and Escobar as the lead-off hitter with Weeks and his more power batting second.

78-84. Better pitching this year but I have serious concerns about our offense this year. Will Weeks make it through the year? Will McGehee take a step back to his normal stat lines? Will Hart have a batting average over .240? Will Edmonds make it through the season if he has to play extensively? Gomez, Zaun and Escobar are not regarded as good offensive players at this point in time. Too many holes in that lineup with only 2 consistent hitters. The Good: I expect Escobar to be legit contender for rookie of the year. Yo to take it to another level. Wolf to be as good as last year. The Bad: I expect Hart to have a horrible year and not be here come July. I expect someone who is not on our opening day roster to be starting in the outfield by August. Eventually our 4th and 5th pitchers will struggle mightly. McGehee to be average at best this year. Edmonds to start out strong but fade as the season wears on. Hoffman to not be as good as last year. Good or Bad?: I expect Parra to be traded before the start of next season. Prince to sign a long term contract.

I would almost always trade prospects for proven MLB talent but if Gamel is not going to be traded this year, he will be the fall back option for firstbase if we can't sign Prince and end up trading him. And I would trade Gamel for Morrow straight up if we can't get an established #3 starter for Gamel and we can sign Prince.

Considering that most hitters don't mature only they are 27-28, your definition of prime has a very very small range of what 2, 3 years tops? I know that we are very spoiled with Braun and Fielder being so young and still being great hitters but that is more the exception than the norm besides the fact that they will in all likelihood get better. Figgens is definitely in the back end of his prime and a 4 year signing would likely see a decline in production in year 4 and maybe 3 but he would still be a great get for what he provides. Lots of really good players who will be 30 plus this year that I would love to have on our team.

I'll take the above average version of Figgens any day. Reasons to grab Figgens: 1. Figgens has produce more than just 1 year in majors. Gamel has not at all and McGehee only one year and was hurt. Both are still question marks. 2. Figgens has the flexibility to be played in centerfield and at 3b. Figgens could play full time and still platoon at center with Gomez and 3b with McGehee. 3. Figgens would be by far and away our best lead-off hitter as I don't see us signing Lopez with Weeks on the roster. 4. Figgens provides us with the opportunity to package Gamel (one of our best trading chips) for a legit starting pitcher that is not currently available in the FA market. 5. Figgens is the perfect compliment, in his prime, not over the hill, brings experience to a very young team. Our best option for legit starting pitching talent is to trade for one. Signing Figgens makes it easier to acquire that legit starting pitcher. Its a simple move that can address a lot of question marks/problem areas.