BADGERJOBOB

Reportedly the Marlins are offering Cantu for Sanchez. What kind of upside does Sanchez have? Would it be benefical for the Brewers and Giants if there was a Hall for Sanchez trade? I would not trade JJ for Cain straight up. I don't want to give up a potentially very good third basemen in JJ for an average fly ball pitcher. The key being signing JJ to an affordable long term contract. JJ has a very good glove, very good arm and decent enough power to solve our third base problem for a long long time.

Unfortunately the way this off-season is shaping up, taking a step back will probably happen in all likelihood so trading Prince this year, assuming you could get a lot of value in return might be our best option provided that Gamel is the real deal and could make the transition to first base. I have doubts about Gamel at third. We have a temporary fill-in at first in Nelson for this year so the key would be what can we get for Prince. We would need a legit starter at either centerfield or thirdbase and a good young arm that we can control for a few years. The key is to not fall off the map this year and finish in the bottom half of the central.

Sounds like just about every single FA out there, restricted or not, who could actually help this club is a little too pricy for the Brewers. Are we actually a major league ball club or just pretenders? Having said that Dunn, Ibanez and Abreu are not the answer. Too many warts on all 3. Their defensive liabilities would kill this ball club. I would much rather spend additional money on a young, very good all around ball player. Spend the extra money on CC or Texiera than the players listed above. If you really want to compete, you have to spend the money one way or another so overspend on quality instead of at best average quantity. We suppossedly have a very good farm system that should be able to fill in the holes at a cheap price.

I agree 100%. The cost in talent we would have to give up for Cain would be beyond extreme.

One open position? This team has a lot more problems than just one open position. As of right now, we have openings for 2 starting pitchers, a closer, another 1 or 2 relief pitchers. We need to determine what we want to do at second, short and third and that doesn't even take into account for potentially trading away and replacing 2 other positions (center and first). On top of all that, we need more left handed bats and a shift away from all or nothing hitters to at least 1 or 2 players with higher on-base percentage. What has some people concerned, including me, is that some clubs have already made moves and are positioning themselves for additonal moves. Us on the other hand, we seem to be sitting back doing nothing waiting until CC decides if he is going to New York or California. This team has a lot of holes and so far nothing. That doesn't mean we won't make a lot of changes but some of these small parts that have already been exchanged would have looked very good in a Brewer uniform, as well as some of these other FA that are being mentioned to be possibly going to every other team out there except the Brewers. Its not time to panic but if Melvin waits until all of the big dominos fall, it might be too late for us to even tread water let alone improve for next year and thats when big signing mistakes start to take place as your over spending on mediocre talent that is left.

Well ideally it would be great if we could get an ace on a string of smaller contracts that would be easy to get rid of if they don't pan out but thats not reality. We need short term stability in our rotation and failing to get a high end pitcher that will be around 2-3 years would result in failure. I personally would rather spend the extra money on CC than trade more high end prospects to obtain someone else at this point in time. I also think your thinking on the salary issue is a bit flawed as well. Who is to say that in year 4, 5 or 6, CC's salary will be more than 25% of the payroll. Who is to say that the Brewers don't continue to up their payroll. Who is to say that we don't trade CC after year 2, 3 or 4 after Yo and Parra prove that they are legit 1 and 2 starters. If we want to compete for a division title we need to make moves that are on par with the Cubs, Cards, Astros and Reds. Due to the nature of their spending that does involve risk. We have tasted success this year and the worst thing possible in the eyes of most fans is to take a huge step back this year. Not getting an established ace would accomplish just that. Unforunately it looks like the price will be more than we can afford but I would gladly spend the $20-22 million a year over 6 years to get this done. If we don't get CC we are not going to be able to get another ace type pitcher (without crippling other positions or our farm system) that will allow us to compete against the teams in our division. It is a very scary thought when we are throwing out Yo/Parra/Bush/Villanueva/McClung/Suppan against the potential of Z/Harden/Peavy/Dempster/Lilly

Pie is fallen far short of expectations. The Cubs had the same problem as we did in regards to lack of lefthanded hitters. They are in the process of fixing that problem. Teahan would be a good get for them as he would be for us. Also they went out and got a closer and signed one of their free agent pitchers. On top of that, they might or might not go after Peavy. Right now our starting staff doesn't even come close to the Cubs and I hate to break the news to everyone around here but the Cubs won the central division this last year and are upgrading their team for next year. In the meantime, CC is as good as gone after the huge Yankee offer. Its doubtful Sheets is around next year. Our closer retired and we are not named with any decent free agent in the market. Yea its real early in the process but we have a lot of gaping holes to fill and all I see is other teams making moves. Yea this looks like the making of a great competitive team next year. http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/ohwell.gif But hey I guess we can all cling to the thought of this young team making huge enough strides that we will compete for the central division title while the Cards, Cubs and Astros actually go out and acquire talent.

I would not be surprised if the Cubs complete a deal in the very near future and acquire Teahan. In the meantime, everyone around us is making moves or at the least posturing to make moves except for us. I have this sinking feeling that this team will remain relatively unchanged except for the fact that we will have lost our 2 ace pitchers and a solid closer from this past year.

How is that offer insulting? Santana received 6 years at $137.5 million. Thats $23 million per year. The offer to CC is definitely in the ballpark. Offering a 4 year $60 million contract would be insulting. Its too bad that we will in all likelihood not be able to sign CC. We need to brace ourselves for a significant drop in the number of wins we expect for next year if we go with Yo and Parra as 1,2. Also, I have no interest in trading the rest of our prospects away for Peavy. We could have made that deal this past July when we traded away Laporta and the others.

If we are talking about a one or two year stop gap outfielder than I would love for us to go after Brian Giles. He would instantly be second on the club in obp. He is a lefty, doesn't strikeout a ton and has decent defensive skills. I would much rather pay him $10 million a year over Cameron or trade Hart for other needs.

No there is not an ideal cf replacement. Melvin will need to be a little creative. Hart can be moved to center if we decide to go after an Ibanez or Giles type of player for right field for a 2 year period. Or Hart could be traded or packaged in a trade for a player like an Andre Either where we then go and pick up a Kotsay or Garrett Anderson to man center field with the idea of getting them at a price cheaper then 10 million. And yes I know Kotsay and Anderson are not as good as Cameron but a cheaper Kotsay might be a better fit than Cameron depending on who you get for right field and how much money you save to go fill another hole. Basically what I am saying is that Melvin will not be fielding the same team next year. He will go out and get a left handed bat and he will figure out a way to get 1 or 2 additional higher obp players. To achieve this, someone has to go. Cameron with an option of 10 million has a greater chance of not coming back than our younger cheaper players on this team. There is no denying that changes will be made.

I would be extremely disappionted if we still had Cameron for next year as that more than likely means that we did very little or next to nothing to upgrade our marjor weaknesses of low OBP and a predominantly right handed lineup. I am not debating that Cameron is not worth $10 million but he is far from a great player and a player who unlike most of the current roster is on the down side of his career.

I actually like that kind of philosophy but this team would need a huge overhaul if you wanted to do that. You need high OBP, good contact hitters who don't strikeout, good bunting, speed and clutch hitters up and down your lineup. I don't think any of our players have a majority of those types of skills. That would require a lot more trades and more than likely the team would lose more the next 2-3 years while we reshape the ballclub to fit that type of philosophy. Further proof that while Sveum could very well be a very good manager, he is really not a good fit for this club.

I didn't want Sveum back. I know it was a small sample size but he showed a lot of stubborness and similarities with Yost in his unwillingness to change up the lineup. In particular, not shifting Hart down in the order if we didn't have any better options. He also should have handled game 4 better with an all hands on deck mentality and managed all his pitchers (minus CC) situationally throughout that game. This club needs a proven winner. Having said that, I don't like any of the other candidates. Seems like no one who has been coached by Showalter or Macha respects them. I kind of liked Brenly but there are too many comments out there about his lack of ability. Valentine is a blow hard and an egomaniac that should not even be considered. The unprecedented move here and probably one that would be viewed badly is that we sign Sveum to the smallest of contracts, years and money, basically throwing away this year. If he gets us a very successful season, we keep him. If he doesn't, we make a huge play for Tony Larussa who could very well be available for 2010 as I think Larussa is out after the 2009 season. Yes I know he is an egomaniac on par or worse than Valentine but if there is one thing that LaRussa has proven is that he gets winning results consistently.

How do you come up with that conclusion? Just wondering. His numbers are overall trending up. He is a young player at 26 with a few years of major league experience under his belt so that will only help. There are prevailing theories that at age 27 players reach their physical peak which can lead to a huge breakout performance so he is just reaching that age now. He is as healthy as he's ever been. I don't think roids is an issue that caused his production to jump these last two years. Hmmm I guess I don't get it. Are you psychic? Because if you are, you have to tell me what the Powerball numbers are this weekend. I need some money real bad. Seriously, would really like to know why you think his production is going to drop.

Thats my point. That was a different era. Back when we were not good. Back when we couldn't sniff .500 and when we needed to build towards the future. We can't continue to have that type of mentality of always looking towards the future. If we do, we might as well pack it in. Move the franchise and get a minor league team for the city of Milwaukee so all of us can say wow we had some great young talent come through Milwaukee. Now look at them. They are all-stars.

First of all, I could care less about draft picks. Give me the star player now over what might be 3, 4, 5 years from now. Draft picks are so hit and miss and don't really provide you with anything in the here and now,especially when you have a very solid base to work with. This is not a rebuilding team where we should accumulate draft picks only to watch the few that are hits leave just before they enter their prime for some other suppossed can't miss prospect. Second, its not spend $0 or spend $20 million. Its do you spend the extra $7-8 million a year over 5-6 years for CC over a Suppan type player or better yet Gagne/Cameron who combined are average at best and made $20 million this past year. So this talk of an additional $20 million over 5-6 years is hogwash. Its are you willing to spend an additional $7-8 million over 5-6 years for an ace who can match or trump any other teams ace. Rarely does Milwaukee get a chance to get a star FA to sniff Milwaukee so when everything falls in line (success, age, interest), you have to go for it. And finally, attendance does matter. Is it the end all? No. Can we compete or outspend the Yankees? No. But we can compete against a large majority of teams. We are top 10 in attendance for a reason. We are a very good team. Success drives attendance and revenue. So does star power in a star driven league. To let our best pitcher go and then trade a good player, replacing him with someone younger and inexperienced to fill another hole does nothing to improve this team and in all likelihood weakens this team which in turn lowers expectations and attendance and revenue and pushes us back to most of the last 26 years. At some point in time, you need pony up and spend some money if you really want to compete. The Brewers are in a position right now to be able to compete consistently for the foreseeable future as we have a very good base of players that are young and cheap, yet successful. I just don't see us having much success if we are always looking to trade our young players just before they hit their primes for minor leaguers who might be better. Again if someone is giving away the farm for any one of our players, I say go for it but I wouldn't trade Hardy for someone else's potential. Hes a very solid player who would look great at third base a few years down the road. And he is one of numerous players on this team that are not even close to hitting their prime years and thats a good thing.

Ahhh NO. We kind of sucked when Braun and Fielder and Yo were in the minors. Thats where we traded players with some skills for additional prospects on the hopes of future success. Now that they are in the big leagues and we are winning is not when we should be trading our better players for some inexperienced prospect's potential. That is what teams that don't make the playoffs do. And your right, of course its easy to say sign a FA #1 pitcher even though there are few and far between. Thing is, we have an opportunity to sign an ace in CC so why not go for it. Aces are so tough to come by that when you have a chance you have to go for it. Especially considering that we have a pretty good albeit still a very young team.

There is a much greater chance of the team taking a dive when you let your two aces walk and you trade your one established shortstop, replacing him with a player with offensive deficiencies, for a #3 type pitcher just to save money. I hate trading a player when you create a hole to fill another hole. I'd much rather sign Hardy to an extension, sign CC and than decide on Escobar one or two years from now when he is ready. In the meantime you have a great starting rotation (CC, Yo and Parra) and one less hole you have to fill. That would keep this team as a legit contender for a playoff spot and that will keep the seats filled for the entire year. I know I would much rather go watch CC and JJ next year than a Cain and Escobar and its not even close but hey if there is some team dumb enough to fill 2 of our holes for JJ, the deal would have to be done but I doubt you get 2 very good major league talented players for JJ. Could you imagine how many fewer runs we would have had in September if Escobar was playing instead of JJ? It would have been 27 years and counting.

Actually its not just him. I am trending towards the realization that many on this board are still under the thought process that the Seligs are still running the team. Yes we have other holes but why trade Hardy, a proven commodity for a number 2/3 starting pitcher when we can sign a 2/3 or better yet, sign a number 1 in CC. Whose to say that the owners won't spend money to win now. This team is poised to do some damage over the next 3, 4 years not rebuild again. Its interesting to note that we were 9th this year in attendance with over 3,068,458 so woe is not the Milwaukee Brewers. We can compete with most of the other teams when it comes to spending money. We just have to spend it wisely. I am all for trading prospects for established successful players and not the other way around, thats what losing teams do.

I don't think it is the same at all. CC pitched deep in a lot of games and saved our bullpen a lot of work. I would rather have a starting pitcher that goes 7 or 8 innings consistently than 5.

We have a better chance of being in the playoff hunt with CC as our ace and trotting a Zach Jackson clone every 5th day than we do if we don't have a certified legit ace and have 2 Zach Jackson clones in our staff. If we want to contend for a playoff spot, we need to bring in a high end pitcher next year, I.e. a 1 or 2. If we want to take a step back towards mediocrity, than lets pony up $12-13 million and get another Suppan for our staff. He pitched great these last 2 years.http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/ohwell.gif

If you want to win and make the playoffs, your going to have to spend the money to get better pitching. I don't see us making the playoffs with the likes of Yo, Parra, Bush and anyone else in the system as our 4 and 5. Its a weak pitching staff. If we want to be a .500 team, great stay status quo. No matter what, you can't predict injuries. Yes, CC could be this Brewer generations Teddy but I would rather spend the extra money and get a legit ace than spend 2/3's of the money on a potential number 3 starter who has just as good a chance of getting hurt as CC and has no where near the chance of being great. Our farm system has far more better position players than it does pitchers. We have the talent in the minors to bring up these cheap, productive position players to supplant a potential great pitching staff. Yes that might mean letting players like Hart, Weeks, Prince and JJ go but we do have some very good options in Cain, Green, Gamel and Escobar. THe stage is set. Do we want really want to go walk down the paths of Kansas City and Oakland or play with the big boys.

I think it was a mistake to start Suppan if Gallardo was available but here is where I really question Sveum's strategy. A win in game four gets us to game 5 with our ace on the mound who probably goes deep into that game win or lose so chances are your bullpen would have limited use. So knowing that and going into game four without a reliable starter, isn't it all hands on deck for game 4? In other words, all 11 remaining pitchers (including Bush who suppossedly has a rubber arm and can pitch back to back days) should be available and used if necessary. So for whatever reason you start Suppan in the hopes he comes through with is experience and you ignore all of his September starts. Don't you at least get pitchers ready to come in to the ballgame in the third inning if we get into any kind of trouble considering that he struggled to get through the first 2 innings? I would think alarms are going off in the third when Howard comes to the plate. Your already down 1-0 and frankly you can't afford to go down 2-0 or worse. So you bring in one of your 3 lefties to face Howard (the preferred choice) or you walk Howard and bring in someone else to face Burrell due to the fact that Burrell has basically owned Suppan for his career and had a hit against him already in that game. Why you can't do is lose the game in the third inning when your facing the meat of their order in a do or die game. Heck I would have had pitchers warming up in the bottom of the second inning to pinch hit for Suppan if we got to his at-bat because that meant there would have been at least 2 runners on base and hard up for some runs. Sveum managed the pitchers very well down the stretch but then he completely abandoned that philosophy in the game that mattered the most.

If we do happen to sign CC, Melvin will have to get a little creative in filling out the rest of the ballclub. I.e. trading Prince for centerfielder with a good OBP and a decent relief pitcher in return. Then convincing JJ to move to thirdbase and bring up our younger players up right away in Escobar and Nelson with Gamel at first at some point in time. Keeping Weeks and looking at McClung as a closer.