I too believe Estrada is not a primary factor for all of the aforementioned reasons. Further, I think the confrontation in the dugout between him and Ned demonstrates real team leadership potential on Estrada's part. (Admittedly without reading other threads enough lately) I notice no negative comments about Maddux anywhere (even though the pitching performance is solely his responsibility). I couple this with Ned's frequent early visits to the mound (instead of Maddux) and wonder...is there a quiet difference of opinion going on between Yost & Maddux with regard to pitching? Afterall, Ned has frequently taken more than one young pitcher to the woodshed publically with an initial visit to the mound (rahter than sending Maddux out). Granted, pitching CHANGES are the primary duty of the manager. But if Maddux and Yost have not seen eye-to-eye on this, this does not bode well for the pitching staff. And leaving a rookie pitcher in who got shelled for 11 runs in less than 3 innings today while at the same time molly-coddling a veteran relief pitcher with plunkaphobia (Wise)? That is just plain wrong. This is the kind of thing that ruins young careers and prolongs the agony of a veteran who just needs to play ball and stop making excuses. We hear a lot about the influence of the veteran players on the younger ones all the time from Ned, but this one takes the cake! And what about management's infuence on the rooks??? The buck stops with the manager. I wonder aloud if these musings might resemble what may have taken place in the tunnel between Estrada & Yost that fateful day.