MrTPlush

First off, the difference between Victor Cartini and Brice Turang is big. It is like the difference between Mike Trout and Christian Yelich. That is a generalization, but you get the point. Caratini isn't an all-star, but Turang is that bad. Having a pulse is about twice as good as Turang when it comes to hitting. Calling Turang a contact hitter is a bit of a stretch. 21% isn't bad, but it isn't good either. Caratini was better than that...notably better against RHP at like 2.5% lower. I also don't agree that avoiding a double play should have been a focus. A double play scores a run and ties the game. Then Adames is still up with a guy in scoring position. If that happens, so be it. If he was that concerned with defense, that's classic Counsell playing the long game and playing it safe in the postseason. Probably why Caratini never saw daylight in the postseason. D Backs manager made quite a few bold moves...and what do you know, seemed to work out for him in the end. Defense doesn't do much when you are losing.

I mean...come on. I think every Brewers fan on earth, even the most delusionally positive ones, can probably agree the Cubs have a better chance of winning a WS than the Brewers in the near future, long term future, and 100 years from now. They have exponentially more resources and a more attractive market. If we could swap situations with the Cubs for the next 5 years, I can't imagine most Brewers fans wouldn't want that. That being said he has had more opportunities than basically any other manager in the last 7 or so years and his teams have been total failure flops. So, it appears he is going to need more than just a good team and a bunch of postseason appearances.

Everyone talks about him PHing crummy Winker in Game 2...but don't forget him not PHing for Turang the day prior. One of the TEN WORST offensive players in baseball last year. He figured out Turang is garbage in Game 2, but he insisted on using lefty against a RHP (his trusty Vet to boot). Didn't make a ton of logic in a vacuum. He should have gone Perkins/Miller. Both way better players in '23 and similar or better against RHP. An elite manager with a pair of nuts would have actually sent Caratini out there...way better than the others against RHP. I think Winker had the worst splits against RHP of any player on the bench at the time. By using Winker it also required him to use someone else to play 2B. He went defense with Monasterio and then inexplicably the guy somehow took an AB with the season on the line with a guy on base later in the game. The fact Blake Perkins (better against RHP) and a guy red hot in September didn't manage to hold the bat in any of those situations is amazing. Caratini also never touched the bat either game. Just not acceptable. Hopefully the next guy doesn't let one of ten worst hitters in baseball take the most pivotal AB of the season.

He prefers to play for a big market and any team on the coast (notably the west coast) will probably get a lot of preference points too. Chicago is a big market...but I don't know if people really view it as that. So yah...I doubt Chicago has much of a chance.

It was probably a couple 14 year olds that don't even watch baseball that did it...just to be cool and get it on the news.

Does he really care about his legacy? Guessing most on this board would tarnish their entire lives in exchange for $13mil. Counsell will probably be like most rich people. Once he retires and his kids are all long gone he will buy a house in Malibu as we all slave away till 70 in Wisconsin. Once you are that rich, you don't usually care much what other people think of you. You don't need to...you can have whatever you want. Heck, most rich people have no problem throwing their families under a bus and living life. The hometown love story is over, just another guy chasing money and a different opportunity to feed his ego. We like to think these guys are different, but 9/10 times it ends up they are like any other rich dude. Braun was like the poster boy of hometown guy and it came out to be he was kinda a crap person that probably took a bunch of team friendly deals to insure himself in case he got caught someday. Does Woodruff really want to be here that bad or is he just praying he can sucker us into a multi-year deal because the next two years are rehabbing/getting back from an injury? I think people are also comparing their hometown love for the Brewers to Counsell's love and I don't think those things are anywhere remotely close to each other. He left Milwaukee at 18 years old and proceeded to play baseball for 4 different MLB teams while winning a World Series with two of them. He didn't return to Milwaukee for good until he was 36 years old. Half his life was elsewhere. He even came back for a single year and then left again at one point. Me and you...our entire personality is the Brewers. It has never been anywhere close to that for Counsell.

I would to, wouldn't want him to get too exposed for getting carried by elite bullpen arms.

First off, flattering you think I was even referring to you. I am pretty sure I can use my opinion to say that some of these conspiracy theories are quite out there. I mean we got at least one person who pondered if Counsell went to the Cubs specifically to backstab us among other sinister theories. I didn’t even say they shouldn’t be allowed or even say anything negative towards them. Just said they are quite off the deep end of takes with little to back them up.

Some of you guys have quite the imagination, that is all. Some of these conspiracy theories are quite out there.

Good sign this resets…nothing.

#1 We get excited when the Cubs overpay for FA players, why not celebrate when they overpay for a manager? #2 I don’t mind Attanasio’s comment. In the end Counsell strung along the Brewers and put them in a crap situation. It seems Counsell was arguably a bit of a diva for this entire thing.

That’s just not a great comp. The CC offer was like oh well we offered to offer knowing there was zero chance. The Brewers put in a legitimate and realistic offer for Counsell. To be quite frank, anything above what they offered was just dumb money being thrown around.

One of the main reasons this has little chance to have any effects on manager salaries is the fact managers never get to FA…at least on a high note. Guys take an extension as fast as possible. Why? Because their job security is terrible. They are always the guy blame falls on and not only do they depend on themselves…but if the GM goes they are almost surely going to. Counsell basically used the Brewers and the job security they gave him to have the opportunity to test FA knowing no matter what they would take him back. Even if they imploded last year. Normal managers don’t have that kind of hometown security. It’s like a RB in the NFL. You better take the chance to lock in some money any chance you got. Because your shelf life is short and unforgiving.

I pondered this wondering when he went from nice manager to have to all of a sudden best manager in history our lives depend on him. Can anyone with a straight face honestly say this guy is an elite in-game manager? I mean…honestly? Most of his tenure has been a running joke of giving a guy like him as a player 500 ABs…or clinging to veterans no matter how trash they are. Don’t get me started about him being able to ride elite starters and elite late inning arms to near cruise control victories. There have been countless moments in the postseason in recent years where the other manager was going crazy trying to win a game as Counsell tried to be as mid season form as possible. This year the other manager went all in on Game 1 unloading his entire bullpen not worrying about the next game…dude then ends up winning Game 1, the next day, and then getting a trip to the World Series. I recall Game 2 having bold PHs for the D Backs as Counsell either refused or had the dumbest guy PH. No doubt the guy has a way to make a good clubhouse and have guys like him…but is he actually that good when it comes game time? If he isn’t that good in a game, is it that hard to replace a nice guy all the players like? I guess we will find out, maybe it is. Probably going to be hard to know what we end up with as this team is kinda prepped for a bit of a nosedive without Woodruff and maybe Burnes.

To be honest we feel headed for a transition of some sort, not contending. I’d try to use someone as an interim guy that won’t need a big contract. We already watched the entire market sign before Counsell ditched…so I would like to avoid the scraps. See what is out there next year. Erickson is a feel good story I suppose. I recall players really liked and respected him.

Some act like we are going to be humbled with Counsell's replacement. On a different note, those same people, would be REALLY humbled if Attanasio sold the team like they want him to. Any other owner in Milwaukee probably doesn't even offer him $5mil.

And had they given Counsell a record contract you and all the other payroll complainers probably wouldn't have even logged in to comment. Pretty much only coming out when the news fits your agenda.

I would wear Cubs attire every day and wrap my car with their logo if they paid me that much more. Is what it is at some point. Someday Counsell may regret ruining his legacy all for money (unless he wins a World Series somewhere). Probably not, but maybe.

We will see if this resets the market like Counsell wants. Something tells me this is an outlier and quickly will fade into the sunset as salaries continue to be low. If they want to reset the market Bochy needs to immediately pack his stuff and refuse to come back to the ballpark until he gets a massive contract himself. If Counsell flops or turns out to not look very special, he is just going to confirm managers aren't worth much money.

End of the day we decided to not pay a guy a record salary in times managers are worth less and less due to how the game is played statistically. We also opted to not give him a salary nearly double that of a guy who just won like his 4th World Series. Saying Attanasio is cheap for not giving out the biggest managerial salary in history to someone as managerial salaries crater to all-time lows makes absolutely zero logical sense. Offering him the top salary in baseball was shocking as-is.

I am more upset we twiddled our thumbs watching all the other top candidates sign and now have to find the scraps. Wonder if Pat Murphy gets promoted. Good luck to him....should be interesting watching him manage without elite bullpen arms covering a 1/3 of the game for him. He is going to have to manage a lot more than he has before. Not saying he will or won't succeed...but I think he has had it a little easy in a lot of ways over the years.

Not only is he going to get paid, he is showing managers are valuable enough to dump the current guy to upgrade...just like you would a player. It is the ultimate power move.

Why not the other NYC team? (private flight going there)

The guy is literally just money hungry and wanting to make mangers paid great again. That is the start and end of the story.

Vogt signing and the Brewers job about to be opening up would be a little surprising. I have to imagine he would have been a top candidate and even if Vogt preferred the Guardians the Brewers could have helped push his price up. I just find that a little hard to believe. He seemed primed to land a managerial role no matter what, so not like he had to sprint out and sign a deal. Because haven't we just been twiddling our thumbs waiting for golden boy to decide?