Beast Light

This team is showing serious holes. Suppan is out of the rotation now but who really knows what we will get in Narveson? If Davis continues down the path he is headed, the Brewers will be forced to replace him in the rotation as well. Parra and Villanueva finally look like they could be viable options for the rotation again but with the bullpen woes, they will have to stay put. I really thought heading into the season that our 8/9 inning bullpen guys were going to be one of this team's strengths. So far they have shown that they can't be relied upon. Rickie now has me concerned, Edmonds is encountering back problems, McGehee has to tail off somewhat and I have feeling that Hart and Gomez's production will return to what we saw last year. I hate to say this but I don't see how this team comes even close to being .500. One injury to the starting rotation and we are toast. As things currently stand, I could see us winning 78 games max.

I guess I am indifferent to all of this. Having a DH regardless of where the game is being played is probably a good idea though. Really wish they would do away with the whole "home field advantage for the WS" thing though.

Excellent! Finally there is some good news regarding the Brewers!

If it's Melvin's job, and you're not willing to provide alternatives, then leave it as Melvin's job. If you want to complain, find some alternatives. It really doesn't take much homework.With all due respect, I do not think this is how the real world works. In the workplace, people are judged based on results. The bottom line is that after 8 years and a payroll that has increased annually, the results are not there. To be honest, I don't care who plays on this team. I want to watch a winner. If we want to be a monday morning quarterback and second-guess specific moves, all we have to do is re-read this entire thread (Suppan, Hall, Gagne, Cruz, maybe Hoffman) ..all the blunders are called out but again, that is not that point. The results are the point and the results are all that matters.

I was referring to last year's starting pitching (Pitcher/ERA) Gallardo: 3.73 Looper: 5.22 Suppan: 5.29 Parra: 6.36 Bush: 6.38 Also, that 2001 staff had a better ERA than the 2009 version of the Brewers. That is how bad our pitching was last year.

So are you content with this year's starting rotation? Do you think it has the looks of a playoff rotation? If not, who should be upgraded? The problem is that we have Gallardo (#1-2), Wolf (#2-3), Davis (#4), Bush (#5) and no one else that realistically belongs in a big league rotation. We can nitpick all we want but the fact of the matter is that our starting rotation is very weak and the numbers reflect that. Upgrades are required and you start with the weakest links. I'm sorry but taking one of the worst starting rotations in the history of baseball and adding Wolf and Davis does not spell great improvement to me. Again though, this all goes back to Melvin's lack of an ability to develop good pitching.

I'm not against these steps at all. It's no secret that a guy like Joe Koshansky isn't going to be the successor to Prince. However, once he's healthy, having Mat Gamel start taking reps at 1B could at least send a message to Boras that, "Sorry, we want to keep him, but we're making alternative plans." Hopefully they are already talking to Weeks about a reasonable extension, and I'd love to see them lock up McGehee if he has another great season. I've heard talk on other boards about potentially moving Lawrie to 1B. Do you guys think this is reasonable? I'd imagine we would be wasting a certain amount of athleticism in doing that. I have never watched Lawrie play but it is my understanding that he is fairly athletic.

Its time for this team to start thinking ahead. I love Prince Fielder but we just can't afford to keep him. Trade him in the offseason and make sure we get as much pitching back as possible. Preferably Major League ready pitching or some very good AAA talent. Move Gamel to 1st base now so he can start getting reps. May want to do the same thing with Lawrie as the competition may be good for Mat. If Weeks has a good healthy year, extend him. Taylor Green can break into the majors as a utility man/insurance policy should McGehee fall off. I know we all love and want to keep Prince but this is a business and emotions can't get in the way. We have a business model that will only work if we stick to it.

So when he pitches well for stretches he gets credit, as he should. When he pitches poorly, it is either due to injury or being jerked around? I'm sorry but it seems as if people have been saying he has the making of a #2 pitcher for the past 4 years now. The fact is that he is now 30 and the notion of him becoming a #2 pitcher seems far from every coming to fruition. Again, his ERA over the past 3 seasons is over 5. So who in this rotation needs to be ugraded then? Davis has historically been better than Bush and Narveson is just a #5, so we really shouldn't expect much from him. Since Bush is not one of the problems, I guess our rotation is all set then. At some point people need to realize that this staff is not cutting it and upgrades are needed. We need a better 3rd and 4th starter. We also need to get in the habit of using the 5th spot in the rotation to break young talent into the league although since we haven't produced any, that really hasn't been an issue.

You make it sound as if yesterday was unusual for Bush. And he gave up 3 runs to the Cards in less than 6, junked the Cubs and then got hit pretty hard by the Pirates, followed by yesterday. About the only thing different about yesterday was that he bent over rather than doing his trademark squat when guys were beating him like Joe Pesci in Casino. How many times have we seen the Dave Bush squat? If there was a word that could probably get a high rate of agreement on to describe him, inconsistent is the word. Nobody is turning on Dave Bush because of one bad game. And yesterday was awful. I agree 100%. Dave Bush has had an ERA over 5.00 in 2 of the past 3 seasons, last year it was over 6.00. Ironically enough, his ERA over the past 3 seasons is higher than Jeff Suppan's (5.06 compared to 4.92 according to my calculations). Now I understand the frustration with Suppan as he is both horrible and horribly overpaid but why does Dave Bush continue to get a free pass from so many people? Is it because he only makes $5MM? This team has a good starting pitcher in Gallardo, a good to decent starting pitcher in Wolf and a whole lot of nothing in the rotation past that. If we want a team that can flirt with .500, this works. If we want a team that can have a shot to win a pennant, this absolutely will not work. I would also like to add that if your minor league system is not capable of produing a starting pitcher that can maintain an ERA of under 4.5 at least once every two years, it is failing. Since Melvin has been in town, Gallardo is the only viable starting pitcher that the farm system has produced. To me, this trend is becoming unacceptable.

Why not? If you're going to play "I know better than Melvin" you can't come without ammunition. At least Briggs brought something. Although, once again, Dave Bush isn't the problem. Suppan and Davis have been so far. Because it is Melvin's job and he has been on it for about 8 years now. Our pitching situation is not something that developed overnight. I understand that there weren't a whole lot of FA pitchers available this offseason but our starting pitching never should have reached the state it was in last year. Again, in 8 years, he has managed to obtain just one good starting pitcher that fit into the long term mix (Gallardo). There is an issue here.

How many years in a row are we going to continue trotting Dave Bush out to the mound? Simply, the man needs to be replaced in rotation. I have been saying this for years but everyone continues to point towards his peripherals. At what point does not getting the job done become grounds for an upgrade? Also, it is not fair to respond with "well WHO is out there to replace him with?". I am not a GM and getting paid the big bucks to figure that out. The Brewers pitching is atrocious and in Melvin's entire tenure, he has only managed to add one long-term talent to the rotation in Yovani Gallardo. You could make the case for Doug Davis in his first go-round with the team but he was then traded for Johnny "First Pitch" Estrada.

Yes. My guess is that they have hired him so that he can convert them into a large market team.

What positives have we seen that indicate this team could be better than .500? I'm not trying to sound like a Debbie Downer but once again, the Brewers starting pitching is awful.

Jeff Suppan was not "Jeff Suppan" in his first season as a Brewer either. Randy Wolf is 33 years old and has started over 25 games only twice in the past 6 seasons. He is also another guy that managed to have a career year in a contract year. I have a feeling that going into next season, we are going to be wishing that his salary wasn't on the books.

Anyone that thought this team was going to win over 80 games was kidding themselves. The pitching is no better than it was last year and in 2 years, we will have another Suppan on our hands (Wolf). For the second year in a row, our pitching is going to be atrocious.

Well that is good. Hopefully he is returning to form because we are going to need him this year.

I didn't get to watch the game today because I was at work. How did Hoffman look?

If the Brewers can save the $5MM by releasing him now, they need to do it. Hart will not even come close to living up to that salary and will be lucky if he is seeing regular playing time when we get to the all-star break. Then again, I am biased. I really soured on the guy after his actions and resulting comments when the Brewers played the Phillies in the playoffs a couple of years ago. A small market team like the Brewers cannot afford to waste salary. It may only be $5MM but this is money that could be thrown at Prince in hopes of getting him resigned.

I posted here on and off as well as the ESPN boards but will now be directing my full attention here. The ESPN boards are cluttered with trolls, 3 in particular, who spend their entire days stirring up trouble by saying things like we should trade Braun for Zimmerman or claiming that Gallardo will never be a true ace like Suppan. Even worse, many serious posters have not caught on to their act and offer debate on these topics. If people would simply ignore them, they would disappear rather quickly, IMO. Oh well, on to greener pastures I guess!

Hey guys, I think you are going to begin seeing a lot more of me around here again. I have been posting on the ESPN boards but am now defecting because things are out of control over there. Have any of you guys tried posting there lately? Have things always been this bad over there? Anyways, I am glad to be back and looking forward to talking Brewers again! Only 4 games back and a nice schedule to work with this month! Go Crew!!

I was hoping to read that his next start was pushed back to sometime in 2010.

As I am sitting here in my living room, I was just annoyed by a Harley Davidson that went roaring down the street. It immediately made me think of the double standard that applies to motorcycles. Why is it OK for a Harley Davidson to make as much noise as it does but if I drove a station wagon that made the same level of noise, I would be pulled over and given a ticket in a matter of seconds?

Valid point. Regardless of what they got in return, they had enough talent in the pipeline to get by this year. Personally, if I were the Twins, unless someone blew me away with an offer, I probably would have let him walk after this year and taken the compensatory picks. I hope I am not coming off as anti Sabathia because the guy was amazing. I would love for him to stay in Milwaukee but I just don't know if it would be in the best interest of the Brewers. Obviously, only time will tell what ends up happening but this is one of those scenarios where I will understand either outcome.

If the Brewers are to sustain long-term sucess, they need to stay disciplined and stick to the business model. Many people use the Minnesota Twins as an example of this business model. To me, it speaks volumes that last year, they lost a SP who many people would consider to be better than CC Sabathia in Johan Santana. They also lost their star CF in Torii Hunter. While the Twins did not make it to the playoffs, they were once again right in the thick of things. To me, the 3 keys to this business model are as follows: 1. Maintain a strong, continuous flow of talent - Acquiring and accumulating talent needs to be the competency but always remember that prospects are called prospects for a reason. They have yet to establish themselves as Major League talent. Having one highly touted prospect at each position is not enough, you need to have depth. A good example of this would be the Brewers catching depth in the farm system. They are 3 deep with Salome, Lucroy and Lawrie (Palmisano even?). With this kind of depth, you are much more likely to find a "keeper" at each position. Also, it is important to make sure that your talent is polished and ready for the show when brought to the major leagues. The sooner you rush a young player to the big leagues, the sooner you will be looking to either move or pay them the big bucks. Make sure they are truly ready before giving them the call. 2. Do not sign players to big contracts once they hit Free Agency - The team must be willing to part ways with Free Agents that will command big time salaries. When parting ways with such players, the team must also be sure that it receives good talent in return. This can be done by either trading the player in the offseason or letting them walk and receive compensatory selections in the draft. Signing players will tie up salary and can impede talent accumulation. The whole idea is to build a snowball of talent and let it keep rolling, getting bigger and bigger along the way. 3. Trade surplus talent for finishing pcs on the Major League club - Some of the talent developed will be good enough to play at the major league level but end up being blocked by more talented players. When these players can no longer be held on to, they must be traded to fill any holes that exist at the major league level. This is much like what the Cleveland Indians did when they traded names like Richie Sexson, Sean Casey and Brian Giles. The other option would be to trade the block on the Major League club itself. It all depends on what you can get in return. If a team can stick to these three rules, they can sustain success over a long period of time. I was thrilled about the CC Sabathia trade and still consider it to be a huge success. What we lost, however, was Matt LaPorta, who could have been the man to replace Prince (assuming he is traded for SP) and a centerfielder in Michael Brantley, who I believe, is going to have a great Major League career. If CC walks, we will get compensatory picks, which will give us the opportunity to replace what we lost in Brantley and LaPorta. If he signs, we will have $25MM tied up in a SP who could be great for years to come or could end up being the next Barry Zito. We don't know. If he turns out to be the latter, this team will be crippled for years to come and two first round picks will be playing in someone else's system. Watching CC was awesome and it would be great to see him come back. The Brewers, however, cannot deviate from the master plan. Successful businesses know their strengths, weaknesses and core competencies. They also find a sound business model to exploit them and do not waver from it.