motchie

I think there are some discrepancies here that would require more input from someone with more first-hand knowledge. #1 I believe 4th options are only usable in the year they are granted. This means that Knebel's 4th option, if that's what he had, would only be usable in 2017, but he was optioned in 2018 (this was the case with Houser this year, he would've burned that 4th option this year even if he had stayed with the team the entire year). The fact that Knebel was optioned in 2018 seems to suggest he had a regular option year remaining, even though his career history seems to indicate that he would've burned all 3 options in 2014-2016. I did a quick google search and didn't see any stories about Knebel being granted a 4th option, but if you can find one please send it my way (although this would still be confusing, because I believe he should still have lost a 4th option year after 2017 if that's the case). My answer here is that I'm really unsure of what the correct answer is, 1 or 0, for now I will stick with 1. His service time entering the 2020 season will be 4 years and 151 days, so he should reach that 5 year mark pretty quickly, rendering this (mostly) irrelevant, especially since he'll likely hit that 5 year mark starting the year on the IL. #2 Williams may be eligible for a 4th option year, but I'm not going to update that here until we find that out for sure, which would likely be around the start of spring training. #3 I'm a little unclear on how the day count works, but Thames was recalled on his 20th day optioned in 2011, so I'm not sure that he burned an option that year. Having an option left would make sense then that his contract stipulates he cannot be optioned to the Minor Leagues without his permission, which would be unnecessary if he didn't still have a Minor League option. Long story short, I'm going to leave all of these the way they are for now, but thanks for your input. Thank you for your reply. Excuse me, but I think there are no discrepancies in these cases. As a fact, 2019 Brewers media guide shows that Corey Knebel and Eric Thames are both “OPTIONS REMAINING (0)” in their profile pages, and I could explain that is true. #1 At first, a player may be granted 4th option only for that year (as you says) based on his status (burned 3 options within 4 pro seasons), according to Major League Rules MLR11©. I think that if the player granted 4th option is…… (1)optioned for 20 or more days that season, his 4th option is burned and he will be out of option for upcoming seasons, of course. (2)not optioned or optioned for less than 20 days, his 4th option is NOT burned, and he may be granted again next year based on his UPDATED status (usually, one more pro season added). However, if his new status does not satisfy the criteria (within 4 pro seasons), 4th option is no longer granted. I can’t find the source about Corey Knebel’s 4th option, but I believe that… He was granted 4th option for 2017 season based on his status (3 options, 3 pro seasons). He was not optioned in 2017, and he was granted again for 2018 season based on his updated status (4 pro seasons), so he was able to be optioned in 2018. His option days were less than 20 days (option not burned), so granted one more time for 2019? No. He would be no longer granted because his updated status (5 pro seasons) has no longer satisfied the criteria. A similar situation was shown in early days of Rickie Weeks. His 3 options were burned in 2003~2005, 4th option granted for 2006 (not optioned) and again for 2007 (optioned for 9 days, not burned), and probably for 2008 (not optioned). He had completed 5 pro seasons in 2008 and out of option since 2009, his 4th option has never used. Unlike Knebel or Weeks, many players granted 4th option had already completed 4 pro seasons at the time they granted, so they could no longer be granted for next year even if they had spent entire season in majors (not burned), like Junior Guerra in 2017-18. Here is the list of 4th option players edited by me (list is incomplete yet…) https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1nRo2qO4FDb-ElZb8du-zdkQ3nYFvzsYK2_x2UmdGPDA/edit#gid=1127751973 #3 For amateur researchers like us, it is a little difficult to count option years because the assignment dates reported by media are sometimes different by sources. There are two different reports about Eric Thames’ transaction dates in 2011: (mlb.com, stats.com, rotoworld.com) optioned on June 4, recalled on June 23 (optioned for 19 days, less than 20, option not burned) (espn.com, rotowire.com) optioned on June 3, recalled on June 23 (optioned for just 20 days, option burned) Which one should I believe? His option burned or not burned? Therefore, I think about his major league service time. According to CBA ARTICLE XXI(B), a player optioned for less than 20 days in one season shall be credited with major league service time including his option days. 2019 Brewers media guide shows his service time as 3 years+63 days by 2018, 579 days in other word. Year by year details are 115 days in 2011, 120(2012), 172(2017) and 172(2018), referred to “Cot’s baseball contracts” site. His 115 days in 2011 does not include his option days, much with , which shows his option days as 20 (option burned). If he had been optioned for 19 days (option not burned) as shows, his service time should be 135 days (added his 19 option days and one more active day). So, I believe and conclude that he was burned one option in 2011 (out of option now). Sorry for long, too long reply… I wish this discussion to be useful...

It’s nice and great job!! But, I have a different opinion about 3 players below… #1 Corey Knebel ---- 1→0 #2 Taylor Williams -- 0→1 #3 Eric Thames ----- 1*→0 #1 Corey Knebel was used his third option in 2016 within 3 professional seasons, so he qualified 4th option for 2017 season. But his option had not been used for 2 years (2017 and 2018). Prior to 2019 season, he has already spent 5 professional seasons and not eligible for 4th option, so now he is out of option. #2 Taylor Williams was used his third option this year. He was drafted in 2013 and played in short-season league that year, and missed entire season due to injury in 2015 and 2016. Now, he has spent only 4 professional seasons (2014, 2017~2019) and should be eligible for 4th option next season. #3 Eric Thames has been optioned for 3 seasons (2011~2013) and not eligible for 4th option, so he is out of option, regardless of his contract clause or major league service time......

I don’t know whether Jay Jackson will be granted free agency or not. But, it is certain that his three options are not intact. One option was used this year. His total option days were less than 20 days this season, but he was outrighted in May and spent more than 20 days in minors until purchased back in July. If a player (whose option remained) is outrighted (taken off from 40-man roster) after the beginning of spring training, then spend 20 or more days in minor leagues, and purchased (promoted back to 40-man roster) by the same team during the same season, his option is used, as well as actually optioned player. Please check the Major league Rules MLR11(j) “REACQUIRING PLAYER” (3), (3) In the event that a player has Major League options remaining at the time of the player's assignment to a Minor League Club and the contract is reacquired by the assignor Club after 20 or more days of the Major League championship season have elapsed from the date of the assignment, such player shall be credited with a Major League option.

In the past, players back from Japan (like Tony Barnette or Logan Ondrusek) were granted free agency despite their ML services were not enough. But they were given guaranteed major league contracts with opt out clause (probably). I don’t believe that Jay Jackson’s minor league contract contains the same clause……