HiAndTight

Same age as Reggie was... Obviously, Reggie was still going strong, but if he was willing to come in and as others said take the hometown discount...that would be a huge addition to this defense. He was outstanding this year. Just not the DPOY all time great level he had been. But he would have been the best defender in our front 7. The type of ripples a signing like that can have could be huge. But he'd really want to have to come here and we'd really have to want him to make it work.

I wonder if their current front 7 personnel gives them an opportunity for a shift back to a 4-3 scheme, assuming Preston is indeed gone for next season. I'd think both Z and Gary could readily transition to DEs, Clark is going to excel no matter what on the interior, and the rest of their D lineman worth keeping around could also be fine as 4-3 DTs. Linebackerwise, they're younger and more athletic and could add to make a 4-3 fit better. To be honest most 4-3 defenses now have a glorified safety playing one of the outside backer positions now with all the multiple receiver sets - I definitely don't want them to force a new defensive coordinator hire to be only a 3-4 guy based on their current personnel in the building, because I think they have enough positional flexibility to make a 4-3 work if it means bringing in the right coordinator should they decide to make a change I think we almost all want to see happen. The main difference between 3-4 and 4-3 teams now for the most part...the DE's in the 4-3 stand up and rush in the 3-4. Teams are in their sub packages so often, I really don't think 4-3 makes the difference people think it does any longer. 4-3 teams are usually rushing 4...just like the Packers or any 3-4 team. They seldom play with 3 LB'ers on the field as you alluded to. I don't think we need to change the scheme, just the coach...but I take your point, you don't want to limit your hiring options. But so few teams run a 4-3 and among them, most run hybrids anyway, so we should keep our search open(I'll be so pissed if there ISN'T a search and we bring Pettine back). We do have the versatility up front. Keke is more suited to play in a 43, but he was also solid this year.

Is that the player, or the stupidity of the scheme? They stopped doing that about halfway through the year, and unsurprisingly, Preston's production increased significantly. He's a pass rusher, not a coverage guy. But, probably to your point, his cap number is problematic. He needs to restructure or he will indeed be gone. That really is the question. Ideally, you keep Preston Smith because we've seen him play at a pretty high level most of his career, but watching him run with TE's and dropping 20 yards...with one particular play that I recall, he dropped on the wide side of the field, but he was about 3 yards away from the boundary during the play covering as little space as possible. That's just not his job. I don't know if he's gone one way or the other...I think you could play Gary more and you're probably only saving 5-6 million once you factor in his replacement and then you'll have an enormous drop most likely. He was good as you say the second half of the year. If he can be that guy and they can afford it, I'd like to keep him.

I agree with most of this, but on the few things I don't. Keke He missed the last game after getting what must have been a pretty serious concussion. But otherwise, he was healthy and really developed into a very good player vs both the run and the pass. I believe that was the only injury issue he had. And I still think Blake Martinez is a really solid MLB'er and better than anyone we had...which is not to say we should have matched that salary, but he was outstanding this year when they had Davlin Tomlinson(whom the Packers tried to pry away from them before the deadline). So I would still agree, another starter on the DL would be idea. Christian Barmore out of Alabama would be just a perfect pick. Coming out after his Soph year so he hasn't really broken out yet, 6'5, 310 and can get into the backfield and really disrupt. If you put 3 really good DL in front of Martin and Barnes. The OL-Losing Bahk was just an absolute gut punch. I agree we're playing on Sunday with him. He's capable of taking a guy like JPP and shutting him out WITHOUT help and allowing the whole line to slide. Turner is not at LT and I think he's at best a serviceable RT as long as you don't fall behind and get into a situation where he needs to pass block every play. So while I'd hope that the freakishly talented Yosh Nijman is ready to go, if a good Tackle fell to the Packers in round 1, I'd go that route(not to harp on 'Bama) but a guy like Leatherwood...he could start at LT and then slide over to RT and possibly man that position for 10 years. Rodgers was pressured 22 vs Tampa. You need to make sure you can block the edges, get pressure on the QB and of course have a good QB before you worry about anything else. So either spot would be fine. Linsley, even under the best possible circumstances is likely gone. That'll hurt, but I think we can adjust to that. Interior is always easier to fix than Outside. As for the secondary, I'm willing to give King a tiny mulligan for this game. Bad back...and bring him back on a cheap deal, but CB is an obvious need. I like King because he's a ball hawk and teams will not be throwing at Alexander, but I don't know if his terrible performance was 100 pct him or 50 him, 25 playing at less than full health and the last 25 Pettine's stupid calls. Two other area's I'd look at, one you touch on. That Tyler Ervin role that was non-existant after he got hurt but for a few fakes to Austin this year, Curtis Samuel was a RB at OSU and is a WR'er now. He's built like a back with 4.3 speed and a FA. Probably too expensive, but they should view that as a starter. And finally, someone asked who could we have picked that would have helped us out yesterday. There weren't many options, but one I could come up with was Jeremy Chinn from Carolina. He's a hybrid safety who can really run, is long and can play the run. A bigger Raven Greene(who we know we cannot count on). ST's goes without saying, but I think if you are drafting 10 guys, you should improve your ST's as a result. So my priorities are; 1-OT who can fill in for Bahk and potentially start there or at RT in the future. 2-DL who can help Clark and an emerging Keke. 3-If you know your offense changes significantly if Ervin is out, treat that position with a bit more urgency. You can find someone in the 5th round who can contribute early in that role. That can be a WR'er, but it can also be one who's not built to be a prototypical WR'er. John Ross, another guy I've brought up before. He will likely be available very cheap and his weaknesses would be minimized(he's also looked really good at times). 4-Secondary...just because teams seldom run out of athletic guys who can cover. Again, 10 draft picks, no obvious real major pressing "needs" so BPA for me at OT/DL/CB, and if there is a WR'er who can help, throw them in there. Then likely 2-4ths, 2-5ths and 2-6ths, though possibly 3 picks in the 4th round when comp picks are officially awarded. On paper, this year more than last year is when the Packers need to "go for it," and try and add a few guys who will make a difference. Jones and Linsley are REALLY good players, but easier to replace than most. And I would expect Gary, Savage, Alexander to all continue to improve.

Leonhard would also be a Rex Ryan disciple. I've seen what Leonhard has done with the talent he's had in the very same scheme the Packers run. I don't think everyone who's coached under Pettine should be excluded because he's come up short. And I'll own that I wanted Gregg Williams at one point, but I think it's fair to say Leonhard doesn't come with the same ego and baggage that Williams does...and I was very wrong on that one.

I think you missed the overall point: "The Packers will be over the cap in 2021" is an educated guess. As is "the cap will go up significantly in 2022". Neither is fact. It's unfair to criticize a poster for saying the first statement, while presenting the second as fact. I think you're really nit-picking here and I understood your point. While it's a fair point that nothing is absolutely certain, I would be curious how someone would conclude that the cap both goes down this year AND doesn't drastically increase the following year. The cap has dropped once in NFL history and even then...it didn't really drop, it was an uncapped year and a lockout. This really seems like a weird hill to take a stand. I've seen you make absolute statements about the Brewers not signing certain contracts and there was less certainty in that than there is in the NFL salary cap increasing with a 100 Billion+ TV deal getting signed and league revenues constantly rising. So perhaps I could have said it's a near certainty, but I think I was pretty accurate. There are reports now that the cap will be closer to what it was this year so they can spread the cap hit out over several seasons, leaving the Packers in decent shape with regards to the cap. Certainly nowhere near Cap Hell....which was what I was arguing.

At this point, if there's a break, I may for the first time in my life side with the player. Rodgers hasn't made demands, he hasn't shown he's anything like Favre and he came out and was by all accounts a great leader and a good mentor to Love. And while I was alright with the Love pick because I thought it'd be 4 years(potentially) and he was a project and you don't know how long Rodgers will play, the term "don't throw good money after bad," kinda comes to mind, but if you just change money with dumb ideas. Don't piss off the best player in franchise history(with respect to Reggie and Don) while he's still playing at an MVP level. And Rodgers has said his dream scenario is to finish his career in GB and Murphy said they're not idiots, they're not letting him go. So...problem solved. You might have made a bad call last year by picking a QB. Though I wouldn't force a trade. Nothing wrong with have a talented young backup. But Jordan Love should not dictate how or when Rodgers leaves.

They really do. They seem to come up with these stories with Florio and Simms just BS'ing and kinda guessing. I think I saw at least a couple of posters on here BEFORE any report came out suggest that Rodgers would use this to get a new contract. And if he does, fine. The dude deserves that type of pull and to know where he stands. But I don't think he's going to risk holding out...and I don't think he's ever going to get into a big spat with the Packers like Favre did. He may exert some pressure(again, total speculation) and if he does...frankly they should just work with him. Extend, restructure, give him more money now, make the deal longer and if you have to eat a big cap number in 3 years when he retires or you do trade him...oh well, that's the cost of having a great QB and creating space to try and win a few more times with him. So I wouldn't be surprised, but I agree, I think it's just as likey they pulled this out of thin air because they talked through it and it made sense to them. Edit-Ok, I remembered slightly wrong, but if I'd have read to the end of the thread, FVBrewerfan was one of those who speculated they could be restructuring;

I pretty much stick with St. Jude. Paying for sick kids and not making the Parents worry about absolutely ruining their financial futures is about as good of a cause as I can think of. There are others of course, but I'm not giving anyone a penny so they can go abroad. I don't think that's a real sensitive issue personally. I would say asking for help for College tuition isn't as distasteful if they're going for a good reason(ie, they want to be an engineer or they want to be a Doctor). But...sorry, that's not on me and unless I know the person as someone else said, I'm likely not contributing. And I don't want to throw this off-topic, but it's also annoying seeing people ask for money and stuff on Twitter or other social media sites.

I really don't think we would have. Or at least I think we'd have lit up that defense and it would have been one helluva game. Tampa was the only team that I was scared of because they had two edge rushes who can beat you a number of different ways. I'd say if we had a healthy Bahk...things would have been different, but, they probably wouldn't have.

Snapper just touched on this in his last post, but after that Brewers NLCS loss I was alright. The Packers' losses to Seattle and now this year have hurt the most. The Buck's loss to the Raptors was pretty bad, but you had the 24-year-old MVP. It feels like the only way things could get worse for the Packers...would be if they decided it'd be better to move on from their MVP QB. This is probably just feeling the suck of losing a game like that, but if the Packers lost Rodgers...I'm not sure I wouldn't become a fan of whichever team got him. SF in particular. Put him in a system he knows with all types of talent on defense, their own All Pro LT, a running game. Let him get his SB wins...god knows he can't count on this franchise to help him as a normal QB(and by normal, I mean normal franchise QB).

Dude....I JUST went over this. A-They're not "over" any cap because they don't have a cap yet. All they have is a floor. The absolutely LOWEST the cap could possibly be. It's a little unfair to say 'we don't know what the cap is, it's just speculation' regarding the 2021 cap while then stating 'the cap is going to go up a bunch in 2022 so there's nothing to worry about.' If the 2021 cap number is speculation at this point, then the 2022 number is as well, with the disadvantage of one additional year of time to pass before it's set. I think that's a disingenuous argument. There MIGHT be one year the cap doesn't go up and if that's the case, it'll be because of a global pandemic that for the first time in NFL history caused games to be played without fans. The NFL's revenue has been rising at a steady rate minus extremely rare circumstances. I just posted a link that goes over the NFL's financial future. https://www.digitaltveurope.com/2020/12/18/nfl-close-to-us100-billion-broadcast-deal/ So unless there's another global pandemic that disrupted the NFL revenue stream, I think we can all make a logical assumption that either they spread the hit to the cap over several seasons thereby raising the cap beyond the floor they set for this year or they won't and expected rise in the cap that everyone assumed we'd see pre-covid...will come a year later.

Eh...it's just really tacky IMO to come on and gloat on a Brewers message board with fellow Brewers fan when you've long claimed you're not a fan of the NFL. The gloating does really annoy me...but Brewerfan has a nice little feature for that.

It's hard to buy into any "the future is bright" shtick at this point for the franchise. They had a good enough team to get it done this year. They didn't get it done. No guarantee of being back in a conference championship next year, no guarantee of getting HFA at Lambeau, no guarantee of a weak wide open NFC. It's another massive opportunity blown. It's really hard to. Everything went right this year...and they still found a way to blow it. We all knew before the game that we'd find a way to lose it. I don't think there's any reason to expect us to fall off during the season next year(other than obviously SF will be back). I guess you could argue the Packers have a lot of young talent, 10 draft picks and the players they're losing are at positions that are relatively easy to replace... https://www.yardbarker.com/nfl/articles/nfl_salary_cap_could_be_higher_than_expected_in_2021/s1_12680_33496772 And if this is true, even that might not be the case. But when you find new and unique ways to lose...it's hard to see what difference it makes.

Yep, Pettine called man coverage with a single-high safety. Confirmed by MLF in his press conference... and he was not happy about it. I don't see how Pettine is back next year after that gaffe. Jim Leonhard is going to be an NFL DC and likely sooner rather than later. Why don't we make Badgers fans happy and finally make a Badger a Packer. Just...get Pettine out of Green Bay.

Yeah, I agree with most of this post. I don't think Rodgers is going to force his way out, I think he was just as disgusted as the rest of us and with the Packers drafting a QB, simply said he was unsure. I think we're really jumping the gun on the Jordan Love talk. He's talented, but we've got a historically great QB who's going to win the MVP this year and has said he wants to play well into his 40's. I just can't wrap my head around the Packers trying to force him out unless Love looks so good, it really is like Rodgers-Favre(and they didn't force Favre out, they wanted him back at a time when rookie salaries were not capped or set like they are now). As for the last part...I genuinely don't know what to do with King. IF the cap is 196 like they've been saying by spreading the hit over the next few years, they COULD sign him. Maybe a better DC wouldn't leave him so exposed? But I wouldn't make signing King a priority...I know that. I'd look at CB/OT as our top priorities.

I mean...unless today's game was really that devastating, he's talked at length all season long about how much he's enjoying playing here and how close he and LaFleur have been, and how much he likes this team(not to mention his desire to finish his career in GB). If the Packers are sick of paying him...well, I think they'd be morons, but let's wait another year. I think his contract may look pretty good heading into the 2022 season.

I thought they could...but when it was Tampa, I was about 50/50 they'd blow it. I mean...with the young stars on this team or stars in their prime, I could find a way to spin this and talk about how they should be just as good next year...but who the hell cares? They just blew a chance at a SB. And despite all the mistakes, if Bahk doesn't suffer a fluke, freak injury, we almost CERTAINLY win today as Rodgers would have had much more time to carve up that weak, depleted secondary. But of course, things were going too well. Of course Bahk had to snap his ACL. This was my biggest fear going into the postseason. I knew this would come back to haunt us eventually. Yup. I don't think it would have cost us vs Buffalo, NOLA, KC nearly as badly. But vs JPP and now it's harder to help out on Barrett. That's just asking too much out of a RG who's playing LT.

Dude....I JUST went over this. A-They're not "over" any cap because they don't have a cap yet. All they have is a floor. The absolutely LOWEST the cap could possibly be. B-They're about 3 simple moves away from clearly almost all of that space. C-If THEY are in cap hell, then so is just about every team. The Buccs have cap space...and they have Goodwin, Lavante David, Barrett, Gronkowski, Suh, Antonio Brown, their RB's, their other two starters on the DL today and several other guys who are going to be FA's. So IF the cap remains at what is currently the lowest possible number and they don't raise it to 196 for next year(which is the current speculation) it could literally go up 100 million the following year. So no, they're not in Cap hell, they're really not even in that much trouble...aside from the trouble that just about EVERY competitive team is in...just about. They have very few FA's and they've got capable replacements and 10 draft picks. They're not in cap hell and they're not headed to cap hell unless they want to be aggressive this off-season. And even then....AGAIN, 100 billion dollar TV deal coming. So it's entirely possible you see a 300 million dollar salary cap the year after next. They're fine. They don't have a lot of space. That's not the same as "cap hell." And that "soon to be 30-year-old LT with a torn ACL," didn't have a torn ACL when they signed him, and take a look at other elite tackles. Trent Williams is projected to get about 4/80. He'll be 33. Jason Peters is 39 and was a Pro-Bowler and AP well into his 30's. Whitworth, 38 years old... a very good left tackle. They're nowhere near cap hell and the insinuation that it was a bad idea to sign Bahktiari because he ended up getting hurt is...a 29-year-old 1st team All Pro at the 2nd most important position. You don't pay him, exactly who DO you pay? If you want to keep bemoaning how bad the Packers salary cap situation is, look at all the other teams and their Free Agents.

I think it is fascinating that every branch of the much-ballyhooed Shanahan coaching tree is basically a paper tiger. They have tons of regular season wins and no championships. They’re like a bunch of mini pre-2019 Andy Reid’s. Did Norv Turner come from that tree?

To be fair...that's a really low bar. MLF...who I really like as the Packers head coach, had one of the worst games I've ever seen from a head coach. I'd also like to add, I was amazed how many times we went 5 wide despite the fact that our tackles were getting beaten BADLY. Mercedes Lewis should have been in there to help out a LOT today. Very little pre-snap movement. But those are things you can overcome. But the FG...the guy just choked there. I think it's premature to say he's got a reputation for it since we were just so badly outmatched last year vs the 49'ers, but he's got one on his resume that's really-really ugly right now. 3-2 in the post-season, 26-6 in the regular, but aside from the offensive calls he makes, he takes ownership of Pettine's mistakes. He's the one who brought him back. You need a young HC who's aggressive and maybe a little more inspiring. This defense has a lot of talent and they should just keep getting better. Jaire, Savage, Gary, Clark, Martin, Barnes. I don't think any of them are older than..24-25. Amos, Za'Darius, Preston(maybe...if he restructures...otherwise you're only saving ~6-7 million when you consider you need to replace him and he's got 8 million in dead space...and of course when you stop dropping him 20 yards, he's still a pretty good player). But these things can kinda snowball. IIRC, Shotenhiemer's first blown game was on that Ernest Byner fumble. I think he had another on the Elway drive. So after a couple of fluke things, then he started to tighten up. I really hope this is a one off for LaFleur...because I love his scheme and think it's going to be incredible if they can add another dynamic weapon with a little more wiggle and acceleration.

I thought they could...but when it was Tampa, I was about 50/50 they'd blow it. I mean...with the young stars on this team or stars in their prime, I could find a way to spin this and talk about how they should be just as good next year...but who the hell cares? They just blew a chance at a SB. And despite all the mistakes, if Bahk doesn't suffer a fluke, freak injury, we almost CERTAINLY win today as Rodgers would have had much more time to carve up that weak, depleted secondary. But of course, things were going too well. Of course Bahk had to snap his ACL.

More than likely. They’re headed for salary cap hell even if they can use cuts and re-structuring to buy them another year. No...we're....not. If they don't agree to raise the cap this year, the cap is going to SKY ROCKET the following year. They were projecting the cap to go as high as 250 next year before Covid and that's before the new 100 billion dollar TV deal kicks in. The Cap could very well be at 300 million in a couple of years. They're not getting rid of Rodgers because of his cap number. Like every team, if the cap stays where it's at, we're going to be in a crunch this year. After that, the cap will go up and so will our player costs. We're not going to be in cap hell unless we really try and create cap room this year(like enough to sign a FA or two) and push EVERYTHING down the road.

I get that we're disappointed in this loss, but I would be my house that it's not...provided he comes back and has a good year next year. Rodgers COULD have done more...but he's far from the problem and is the NFL's MVP. Jordan Love would have to be spectacular in whatever time he got next year(Pre-season if there is any PLUS he'd have to show up in the regular season)...and I doubt that's happening. I think it's more likely they keep him through his contract than get rid of him next year(going into 2022).

That was St. Brown who dropped the ball. And you can't just float that in there. That was a tight window...maybe he put a little bit too much on it, but it hit a professional WR'er in the numbers. Also, thought maybe MVS could have tried to lay out for that one, but you're right, rights puts a little more under that, and he's going to the house. Otherwise, I agree. Didn't remember the leading with the helmet, but I'll take your word for it. Maybe we should place SOME of the blame on Jaire. If he wasn't just LOCKING DOWN whoever the hell he was covering, they wouldn't have thrown at King so often? Seriously, the 2nd best secondary in the NFL(so say the stats) and we give up some just absurd plays. Who the hell would have thought after last year we'd be saying, "Man, our run D was outstanding...even without missing our second-best run defender and having pretty much the same defense, but we lost this time because the secondary blew it.