Thundercat32

According to Cot's baseball contracts this just isn't true. The Brewers are in 4th, but not a distant 4th. In fact, they're much closer to 3rd than 5th and also less than $4 mil from 2nd. Cubs $144.3 milCards $94.2 milAstros $92.6 milBrewers $90.4 milReds $76.1 milPirates $39 mil regardless, my expectations for Melvin is to make optimal decisions and steer this organization in the right direction. I think he's underachieved making decisions, and this organization is going in the exact opposite direction signing so-so veterans to "get by" instead of making a committment to young talent. Disbanding the DR academy is a clear sign of what I'm talking about.

flee, At the start of the season I followed the Brewers very loosely. I paid more attention to them than say a team like the Marlins, but I had a very vague idea of what was actually going on with the team. I was all about the Texas Rangers. I followed them through the newbergreport.com and local media coverage (I live in Dallas, TX). I could recite most of their minor league rosters and knew everything about the major league club, so I was a pretty avid fan. Then some rumors of a Justin Smoak for Cliff Lee trade started floating around and I said to someone "If they do that frank them I'm a Brewers fan". And true to my word I made the switch. I'm from Milwaukee and I rooted for the Brewers any time they weren't playing the Rangers. From a far my thinking was hey they have Braun and Fielder I like both of those guys they'll be fun to root for the next several years. Then the first thing I learned is Prince is likely gone, sort of a downer getting out of the blocks. I actually had a favorable opinion of Doug Melvin, b/c I realized he got the Rangers to 3 playoff appearances while he was here and he often did radio interviews on the sports station in town. He came across and a very nice likeable guy and I came in a month ago with a favorable impression of him. Everyday for a month I've done something that involves looking into the Brewers closer. I had to I was way behind the curve. What I'm finding I don't like too much. I don't mean to come off as argumentative, I just see some ppl posting things that aren't accurate and I'm trying to clear those things up. I guess this is becoming a rallying cry for me also, so I'm more passionate about it and want to convince more ppl to join the cause. I think we should all support firedougmelvin.com

I just discovered DePodesta blogs here http://itmightbedangerous...m/2010/08/two-items.html In his most recent post on Wednesday there's a very cool link to a video detailing why Mariano Rivera is so dominating. I recommend you check it out if you haven't seen it before.

jackalope02ca, Where is your bar for this team? It sounds like you have it at just don't suck. My bar is overachieve, thats what the Rays have done, what the Twins do, what the Rockies have done. My point is there are several small to mid market teams that are successful and make alot of smart decisions to exceed their expectation. Taking a stance of yeah, but we're not the Pirates (who by the way are kicking our butts in developing young players, particularly in Latin America) is not the right stance to take. Really its a terrible point if you want to be honest about it.

You HAVE TO scout Latin America to be a successful organization in baseball these days. If the academy is lousy you make it better. Disbanding it is a self imposed death sentence, and among Doug "Get By" Melvin's many sins this is by far the most egregious.

In regards to Friedman, he's rumored to be leaving anyways. Tampa can't resign Crawford and over the next 3-5 years they're going to have more players leaving. Friedman is smart so I think he'd figure something out if he stayed. But it sounds like he wants to leave, if thats the case how can throwing a big pile of money not help? You sound reasonable, but also like a slight Melvin apologist. I think there's a chance Jack Z wanted to go more in the direction of pitching, but Melvin overruled him or for all we know Jack Z wanted those hitters and Melvin approved it. Either way its really hard to over look Melvins 15 year history of not developing pitching talent. I mean are you going to blame the Rangers director of scouting from 1995-2001 for not producing enough pitching talent too, or is Doug Melvin going to take some of the blame? And as I said before, if your the GM you have to find a way to improve your ballclub regardless of how eager other gms are to make trades with you. Baseball provides many ways, and Melvin is putting up an 0 for pretty much.

The Scouting Director is also in charge of international signings. The Brewers have done poor in this area, in large part because of Melvins descision to close the Brewers DR academy to save money so it could be shifted to Major League payroll. Wat? Holy Cow I didn't even know this, I just assumed the Brewers sucked at international scouting, b/c who are the top latin american prospects in the organization? Not many is the answer........ God Bless America, holy mackrel...... ok so I'm reading about this from a Baseball America article. So the first thing Doug Melvin did when he got here in 2003 was shut down the Dominican Republic academy, b/c the players weren't developing like they wanted. My solution that would of just been hire better instructors. Not shut down resources, try and "get by" with a few scouts in the area and then send those players to the instructors in the Arizona league. Keep your resources there and bring your instructors to the talent. You're not going to have as much success convincing kids to leave the country to come to you. How do you screw that up so bad?

jjfanec, A couple of things Odorizzi was drafted in 08 before Seid took over, so he can't take credit for that selection. Especially since Odorizzi didn't play on the West Coast which is where Seid was assigned before the June 2008 draft. I know, you were only trying to give balance and perspective to Doug Melvin's challenges. You realize every GM deals with those same challenges right? You can't give a GM a free pass by saying look he probably was trying to make some trades but we don't know if he got any good offers from other gms. Melvin has been here 8 years now. Your job as a GM is to find a way to put a winning product on the field. 8 years is plenty of time to do that. If other gms won't let you rip them off, then guess what? Find another way, use the rule 5 draft, sign latin american talent, do something to address your needs. Do you really feel he's done everything that he could of done to put quality pitching on the field? (and yes Ennder I agree with you the pitching has looked worse due to poor fielding)

James Gammon died on July 16th. I didn't know that, but thats missing my point. I was trying to get Rydogg66 to take this thread seriously.

Frank McCourt married Jamie McCourt (and made her CEO of the Dodgers) and now you wanna trust his judgement to evaluate a gm that could help your ballclub?

Seid wasn't hired as Director of Amateur Scouting until Nov of '08, and Odorizzi was selected in the June 2008 draft. Considering at the time Seid was a West Coast crosschecker and Odorizzi was a pitcher from Illinois, then no I'm guessing he won't get much credit for him. Rivas was signed as undrafted free agent from the Dominican in Feb '05, so again unlikely Seid would receive much credit for him either. Following this pattern its hard to believe he'd get much credit (or blame) for Jeremy Jeffress, a kid from Virginia taken in the '06 draft. Seid can be given credit for Eric Arnett (tho I'm not sure he would like to take credit for him), Kyle Heckathorn, Dylan Covey (provided they sign him), and any other pitching prospects taken or signed after the 2009 draft.

As long as we're getting crazy, I mean why not consider James Gammon? He did a pretty mean job of scouting all of that talent for the Indians in Major League. I'm sure Ueck is still tight with him and wouldn't have any trouble persuading him to come here.

Here's what I said "I also question, if we can give Melvin full credit for his successes". So I'm just saying if Jack Z + Melvin = product A, then when you take away Jack Z from the equation don't expect product A to be full strength, i.e. don't expect the same level of success in future drafts.

Brew Crew Nation, I've been studying this team for about a month now and I've come to believe the M in Melvin stands for Mediocrity. From accessmylibrary.com "ARLINGTON, TEXAS _ Doug Melvin built three division championship teams as general manager of the Texas Rangers, but he was unable to develop enough good young pitching for owner Tom Hicks. That cost Melvin his job when Hicks fired him Sunday after seven years." This is his 8th year in Milwaukee he's overdue and this isn't to be critical of Doug Melvin personally. I've read many posts from supporters of Doug Melvin who cite his positives. Doug Melvin is a likeable guy there's no disputing that, but this boils down to job performance. I don't see a direction with this franchise. And due to a lack of direction he's doing patch work. Trying to patch together a starting rotation each offseason with the also rans of the free agent market. Trying to keep a nucleus together of Braun, Hart, Weeks, Fielder & his lone arm Gallardo and pray he can somehow make it work. That shows bad judgement to me. If you're the GM, you can't be a fan and get attached to players or to your own prior plan. If things dive off course you have to be savvy enough to recognize that and make the necessary adjustments. I also question, if we can give Melvin full credit for his successes to this point. In reality, Jack Z probably deserves more of the credit for hits on Braun, Weeks, Fielder, and Gallardo. I'll give him his due he made a fantastic deal for C.C. in '08 and maximized our chances without giving up much in comparison. He's also not the worst GM imaginable. In fact, some very respected journalists and baseball insiders rate Doug very high, as high as a top 10 GM in baseball. However, the status quo in Milwaukee has to change and its the exact same thing which lead to Melvin's departure in Texas. Where is the pitching? Melvin is too conservative for my tastes, playing it safe by choosing so-so talented veterans to fill holes instead of acquiring younger talent with more upside. The bottom line is, if there is someone else out there who's better why not go and get him? I can't come up with a reason not to and I defy you to come up with one. I don't think anyone in baseball circles will dispute the Rays GM Andrew Friedman is a far better GM than Doug Melvin. I'd be perfectly fine with going out and acquiring Friedman. Just look at what he's been able to do with that small market team in a division that boasts the New York Yankees and Boston Red Sox. Think what he could do here in Milwaukee. Ken Rosenthal wrote an article back in May citing GMs are underpaid compared to their worth, http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/Billy-Beane-other-MLB-GMs-are-underpaid-050510, and its spot on. So acquiring Friedman is simple make him a better offer. I mean, why will Dave Bush sign a better contract this offseason than any GM in baseball has when his impact on an organization is far less? Like Rosenthal says in his article the best thing you can do for your organization is hire the best available GM. And while alot of people believe thats Andrew Friedman, theres rumor a bidding war will break out for him in the offseason, I believe the best available GM on the market is with the Padres front office, Paul DePodesta. DePodesta, of course is the famed sabermetrician guru from Moneyball, but he's more than that. DePodesta's firing after a brief stint with the Dodgers in 05 was a severe injustice. As described in this hardballtimes "the best unemployed GM in baseball" article as a surprising Steinbrenner-esque firing, http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/article/the-best-out-of-work-gm-in-baseball/. DePodesta is more than a stat head, although he certainly excels in data analysis. He was a baseball and football player himself at Harvard and worked as an advandced scout and special assistant to the GM with the Indians for 3 years before joining the A's. I believe DePodesta's biggest assest is his ability to make the most optimal decision without regard to emotion, tradition, or any other prejudice. He just bases his sole decision on whats the best move for the long term success of this franchise? So whats the best move for the Brewers this offseason? For owner Mark Attanasio to extend a 3-4 year $7-$9 million contract to Paul DePodesta. Thats when this organization finally gets turned around in the right direction and starts building a championship team, with hitting and pitching. Also, if the author of firedougmelvin.com happens to read this or you happen to know him please contact me. Thanks.

right on the money with your assessment. My first game to watch in real time (on Fox Sports Southwest). really hope this is what I keep on seeing the rest of the season.

real nice effort by Alcides on that ball in the hole.

They're showing the game on Fox Sports Southwest, so I'm able to watch my very first game live, Awesome! Man why did they ever change their unis? Such a shame. 8 more innings of pure pleasure left http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif

well it went to Ryan/Greenburg. I can't help but think mlb jerrymandered with the bidding at the 11th hour. They had said they would reserve the right to award either of the bids with the franchise, which would of left Cuban in an anti trust appeal hearing. I think Cuban just gave up at the end. He certainly didn't run out of money. Rumor has it someone in the Ryan/Greenburg group pissed him off and thats why he got involved bidding against them. Originally he had been very public in his support for the Ryan/Greenburg group and even offered to be a backstop for them. So there's a reasonable chance he just wanted to drive the price up on them another $80 mil and then call it a day. I'm actually a little disappointed. I think Cuban would of brought a holy war to mlb. I would fully expect their 2011 roster to look like this. C Victor Martinez 1B Albert Pujols 2B Ian Kinsler SS Elvis Andrus 3B Michael Young LF Josh Hamilton CF Carl Crawford RF Jayson Werth DH Nelson Cruz P Cliff Lee P Josh Beckett P Matt Cain (they trade prospects obviously, b/c now that they're going to buy players every year who needs stinking prospects?) P Colby Lewis P CJ Wilson P Darren O'Day P Matt Harrison P Neftali Feliz P Frankie Francisco P Derek Holland etc, etc.... this is why Major League Baseball won't approve him to own a team. It sure would be fun, and ultimately good for the game, b/c I think it would force major league baseball to level the playing fields and institute revenue sharing (I know it currently exists, but I'm talking about equal revenue sharing). I think that somehow its okay for the Yankees/Sox to dominate spending and baseball, but Reinsdorf/Selig would have a major hissy fit if Cuban with buck wild with no salary cap. So I'm kinda sad to see Cuban passed over so this issue wasn't spotlighted.

I second what 2livebrew is saying. This team needs more of a Jacob Turner type for Prince then a John Danks type imo. Really you need 2 of an organization's top 3 pitching prospects for Prince, and they can't be misses. Unfortunately, I don't think Melvin is thinking in these terms at all. Crash, I like your lineup it gives me some hope for next year (although you can put me squarely in the camp thats looking for the best outcome over the next 5-7 years and not just next year). I really have some trouble believing a rookie is going to come in as our leadoff hitter and post a .370 OBP. Imo, Cain will be doing good just to prove he's an everyday outfielder and post a respectable OBP. I really disagree with the logic teams are willing to part with quality pitchers in the offseason, but not at the trade deadline. There's not a time of the year team's are willing to give up front of the line rotation pitching. The only exceptions are your Oswalts, Harens, and Cliff Lees of the market. Either they're demanding a trade from a bad team or they're going to walk at the end of the year and the team has to get something for them. Imo, what makes the offseason a more promising time to deal Prince is there are more teams who may feel they can negotiate a deal with him. I don't think very many teams are going to trade for Prince and give up much unless they can sign him to an extension first. Those kind of talks happen more often in the offseason. I could be off on that, in the sense the frequency of those talks during the season and offseason is minimal, but it trends upward in the offseason I would think. I'm growing more and more perpetually fearful Melvin is going to MESS up this Prince deal. And when I say Mess up I'm talking about another four letter word.

bruce, pages 2, 3, and 4 of this thread all talk about moving Hart to 1B, Lawrie to 3B, and Mat Gamel to the OF or some combination of the three. I just wanted to address why anyone is planning on Mat Gamel effecting Hart's status with this team. I don't see Gamel as a lock (or even likely) to be successful at the major league level. Gamel is hitting 283/367/467 w/ 20 HRs and 145 K's in 135 games at AAA. I wouldn't call that raking. Its not terrible, but Chris Davis was "pretty good" every time the Rangers sent him down to AAA and then what happened when he was called up to the big leagues? Actually I think Davis always hit north of .300 at Oklahoma City.

I really don't get all of the love for this signing. I'm not saying I hate it, just that I think its premature. We just paid a guy who had his own self doubts coming into this season whether he was even a mlb starter $26.5 million. My question is why? Let him go to arbitration, pay him whatever he's awarded for next year and lets see if he keeps it up in 2011. Then you can come and offer him a contract and if it costs you more at least you're paying for a more proven commodity at that point. Also what is all of this new found hope/believe in Mat Gamel? He hasn't done anything to speak of since 2008 at AA ball. Counting on him to do anything at the major league level is wishful thinking at this point. The guy hasn't even showed he's "on pace" for the major leagues let alone a major leaguer.

everyday that passes is just one less day you have them under contract. in theory their value decreases by the day as well, so in that sense yes they needed to trade them. the only exceptions will be if melvin works a better deal for those players in the offseason or if they keep hart (unlikely fielder) long term and he continues to provide production at his current rate.

this is pretty ambitious thinking. just look at the language of what you wrote. according to that pitching problems solved we already have our 2nd-5th level starters in the system now with left overs to fight it out of the 6th and 7th fill in slots. I disagree, what we might have is odorizzi and maybe rivas who could be 4th or 5th guys, maybe a 2nd or 3rd for odorizzi, but not "at least". not trying to pick a fight with you, I'm just saying clearly hudson is further along at this point and I think a better effort should of been made to pry him loose from Chicago.

Two things stood out to me in this article and I'm wondering if I can bounce this idea off you fellas. The first is the "maybe the $60 million extra the Yanks offered C.C. played a role in his decision" and the second is the part about Ian Kennedy and Daniel Bard demanding over slot money which lead to the Brewers looking past them on draft day, and instead they end up with Jeffres. When I first signed up here one of my first questions wanting to get to know the Brewers is are they a small market team or can they spend a little money? The consensus was we're not a small market team, but we're not going to compete with the Yankees for free agents. I think thats fine, and you can win championships with that type of budget. Obviously, the Front Office has been lacking over the past decade and the more I get into this team the more I'm in favor of new leadership at the top. Anyways, here's what I'm thinking. You're not going to outbid the Yankees for Cliff Lee so why try? And why take that money and bid on the ugly step sisters of the world? $12 million to Jeff Suppan doesn't make any sense, it only addresses the here and now (and doesn't always do that). I'd rather take that $12 million and scatter it over 5-6 first round draft picks. Go ahead pay them overslot. Rick Porcello is a Tiger because they're the only ones that would agree to pay his high signing bonus demands. Why not roll the dice on a guy you believe has talent, but is asking for a high signing bonus? We took LaPorta that year, even if Porcello turns out to be a total bust (which there is every indication to the contrary) how much worse off would this organization be paying for guys like that and passing on the Jeff Suppans of the world? I think it'd do the Brewers a world of good to develop a reputation as a team thats willing to go over slot for those types. Tanner Scheppers is another one. He lasted til the mid 40s in the '09 draft b/c teams were worried about his arm and about his salary demands. Everyone admitted he was a top 10 talent in the draft, but he was passed over b/c of that? And look at were he is now, now Texas has a pitcher on the verge of making his mlb debut in September and he's rated amongst the best by Baseball America. It just seems like a far better way to spend $12 million as an organization. Another thing I can't figure. Why don't the Brewers have a bigger return in the Latin America and Asian markets? You don't have to be spend with the Yankees in free agency to acquire talent. The Texas Rangers and other teams have practically made a living off of it for the past 30+ years. Besides Yovani who have the Brewers ever scouted and signed south of the border? I'd also like to see an effort made to acquire more 1st and 2nd round draft picks. Of course, I guess you have to have the talent evaluation personnel in place to make those picks worth something, but thats kind of at the heart of the matter isn't it.