Gopher74

Well then, that's just great for you. You've got a whole weekend off where you don't even have to watch the games(What, with knowing the outcome, why would you?). Just think how much you'll accomplish in that time now that you don't have to watch us "get killed".

That's nice in theory, but I think if anyone has seen how important a closer is, it's been us this year. This team can in no way afford to have it's second best reliever pitching the 9th.

I really dont understand this obsession to rid us of Turnbow. I suppose we can just bury our heads in the sand and pretend he wasnt effective last year becuase he had a few bad outings. That way we can depend on a slew of guys that are unproven and never likely to have anywhere near the success T-bow has had. Gange, Torres, Mota, Riske. That's 4 guys that have had the type of success that Turnbow has had, and who most importantly still are. Look, I like Turnbow a lot myself, but he's been horribly inconsistent for a little while now, and we can't count on him whatsoever in a big spot. Now I'm certainly not the "blame Yost for every-single-thing" type guy, but I do to some degree hold him a little responsible for Turnbow. At least in the sense that you know how and when to use T-bow and he's not using him like he needs to. You can't use him day after day and you can't sit him down for 5-6 days. And with the way McClung's throwing? And the difference in salary? It's becoming an easy call.

Except he said it yesterday.

Number of orgs has nothing to do with talent. Look at that bum Sheffield's career! When exactly has he ever been with 5 teams in 2 years? Moreover, when has he ever been waived? A player who bounces around in FA, or is traded for top prospects, a touch different than a player who's simply not wanted on team after team. All I did was defend a solid player from an unwarranted smear No, what you did was suggest that if people didn't like Branyan as a player, they MUST not be able to understand SLG. ... nowhere have I lauded the all-star qualities of Branyan. I'm not even that big a fan of Branyan, as I value OBP quite highly. However, to suggest that a guy that can carry a .330-ish OBP & near-.500 SLG (even when he strikes out as much as the Muscle does) isn't solid or doesn't 'deserve' some fan-love is preposterous. Well, I think it's "preposterous" that because the guy takes the occasional walk in between his all or nothing swing leading to a .196/.320 line last year and his .228/.327 line the year before gets as much love as he does. I'd much rather have a guy on the bench who can do more little things than a guy who can only do one thing against left handed hitters. His BB rates don't slump, and if he can bat even just around .230-.240 for you, you've got incredible part-time production. Incredible? Wow. You don't have very high expectations, do you? .229/.327/.478, even with a pretty solid SLG pct is absolutely not "incredible". It's actually pretty poor for a team other than the San Fran Giants. But hey, he'd be a solid player for them.

Yes. That's it. We're all being totally irrational with Russel the Muscle. So are the 5 organizations that he's been with in the last 2+ years. And his career lines of .229/.327 with a K more than every 3 times up? It's more than a little condescending to suggest that if someone doesn't think Branyan's a good player that they're simply not able to understand OBP and SLG. Maybe those who "misunderstand it" are the ones who think .196/.327 and a good SLG makes for a good player?

Yea, Hart's Batting Average is due in large part to a 6 out of 8 stretch he had a couple days ago. Still, if anything, that this team is hitting so poorly and we're still winning games is a sign of encouragement. There's almost no way that Prince, Braun, Weeks and Hardy continue to hit at about a .200 clip(a little above combined, but not much I'm guessing). Then take Mike Cameron, insert him for Gabe Gross, and I think this team will get a real nice boost. I just hope the BP can keep pitching well and Sheets can stay or get healthy and I think we'll take off.

McClung was on 3 days rest. So what? Are we now saying that because of McClung's last outing we trust him now? That he has passed Turnbow? I don't think so. I'm not going to comment on the other comments, mainly because I didn't hear them, and if he did say that about Riske, then I just don't agree anyway, but it is obvious that the BP was tired.

And by consistently, you mean pretty much just one time, right? Using Gange and using Cordero on 4-5 consecutive days are two very different things. Also, I believe that one of Coco's saves last year during that run was a 1 pitch save. But could you back this up citing Ned Yost's closer usage? As I said, I don't agree with this particular time. But I'm not going to make that leap from not agreeing how he did it this one time to me saying that I don't agree with how he's done it "consistently" because of it.

I don't blame Yost for bringing in his closer with a 3-1 lead. Yes it was the 4th day in a row, but closers pitch 4, 5, even 6 days in a row ALL THE TIME. Cordero pitched 4 days in a row 3times last year. Turnbow pitched 4 days in a row 2 times the year before. It was the right choice to bring him in to get the bottom 3 guys in the order. First of all, I'd appreciate if you could inform me of more than one pitcher, and closer at that or at least power pitcher, who's pitched 6 days in a row in the past 30 years? Maybe a couple, but it's most definitely not something that happens "all the time". Nor is 5, and while 4 is a little bit more common, it's not common when you're talking about a pitcher who's very name illicits memories of serious injuries that cost him large chunks of his career. So aside from me not believing that pitchers do this all the time at all, even if I accepted that as fact, I don't think it means anything as Gange's a different situation. The one thing I wish Ned would have done was leave Gagne in to finish the inning. The previous 2 times he blew leads, he buckled down and get them to the 10th inning. I think he would have done the same thing yesterday and gotten them to the 11th. Except for that 5 pitch walk to the next hitter. Edit-I see the consecutive days issue has been resolved.

I may end up being very wrong on this as I was and still am totally convinced that this year would be his breakout year, but I still have complete faith in Rickie Weeks. I do love how he gets on base, even when he's struggling at a respectable rate, however I think one thing that's really stifling him is the fact that he looks at so many first pitch fastballs right down the middle. We don't have anyone coming up in the near future that can be a leadoff hitter for this team, and as such, he's going to be the guy for a while, but I think moving him down, maybe into the 6th spot right now where he can be more aggressive would be the best thing for him. More than anything, I think he's just pressing right now and that he'll be fine. I'm sure not ready to give up on Hardy, Braun or Prince, and while they all have better track records of success than Weeks(well, maybe not Hardy) the point is the same. It's early. If you thought he was and should be the guy going into this year, then nothing should have changed from then until now.

Well, they're obviously making time as he's on the roster as we speak despite not being one of the 12 best breaking camp.

There is no way Parra will throw for 200 innings this year even if he's in the rotation the whole year (which he won't be). He has been and will be on strict pitch counts. I wouldn't worry about that at all. Alright, it was an example. You said that if a pitcher isn't ready to pitch every five days, they shouldn't be in the rotation. But, for the record, if things don't change and he stays in the rotation all year long and they don't skip any starts, how far away do you think he's going to be? I'd assume he's going to start going deeper in games. If they don't change anything, he could get real close. And what has his strict pitch count been? He's been more on a "giving up too many runs" count. His first start he went 100 pitches and got yanked because he was starting to get hit. I'm sure he's on a pitch count as are all pitchers, but I don't think anyone knows what that is, or if it's any less than our other young starters, so that's not going to do a whole lot to limit innings.

It's got absolutely nothing to do with what I want to see, it's about what's likely to happen. And what Coco did last year doesn't really have any bearing on what they're going to do with Gange this year as Gange's got a lot more injury concerns than Coco had. Not to mention one of those 5 in a row was a one pitch save. But why would you go to Turnbow? I think it's pretty obvious he wouldn't be the guy who gets that job. How about Riske, Torres, Mota? I'd even thought the Brewers had said that he wouldn't work 4 days in a row, and at most he'd work 3. I'm not positive on that though.

Hmm..I doubt it. I think he gets the day off tomorrow either way. I can't see him pitching 4 days in a row(which is what he'd be at, correct?).

I guess you have a higher opinion of McClung than i do. I don't see him getting claimed. I don't think there's really any question that he gets claimed at this point. I thought that was sorta a foregone conclusion. Especially after his last start. In fact, I believe that was Melvin's reason for taking him with the team out of ST'ing, because they knew if they tried to put him through waivers, hed' have gotten claimed. Guys who can throw triple digits, and have a nasty breaking ball, even if it's inconsistent will likely get claimed. Even more likely if they've started to show signs of being able to command that pitch. By the way, he threw one, I think it was to Lohse, but it was one of the pretties curve balls I've ever seen. It caught the inside corner and it looked like it was going to be about a foot high and a foot inside. He's definitely impressive when it's going....and I readily acknowledge that he can be equally ugly, but my opinion that he'll get claimed has more to do with what those in the know have said than my opinion of him. To be honest, I was upset that we kept him and dumped Vargas out of ST'ing thinking Vargas could really excel in that role, but again, after watching him a couple times, I at least understand the motivation.

I don't think anyone's said that a pitcher isn't ready to, just that it's not smart to throw Parra out there for 200 innings this year, and that our rotation may benefit from this later in the year. I'm not suggesting that we go with a 6 man rotation through the ASB or anything..which I should have clarified. Just for the next 4-6 weeks perhaps. And I don't think there is much difference at all from pitchers 3-6 in our rotation, and all of them are viable big league starters IMO.

I don't think we're going to continue to stink against right handers at all. I think we'll always hit the left handers better, but I think we're going to be just fine vs right handers as the season progresses. We've just got too good of a lineup.

I don't know why a pitcher should be throwing 100+ pitches in April. I think Yost said something about an extra day rest. Totally agree. 100+ pitches on starts 2 and 3 just does not seem smart to me 100 pitches certainly isn't that high of a number. In fact, it's pretty standard. To say that a pitcher shouldn't be throwing 100 pitches at all in April? I think in that case we're taking things way too far, and you're probably not doing all that much to limit injuries with such a small variation. I mean, what, is 90 pitches alright, but 100 too much? I think it matters more how stressful those pitches are, and I don't think Sheets have been. I really don't think that his pitch count has had anything to do with his soreness. I think it's just one of those things that happens to pitchers.

Except that McClung would be claimed on waivers making the situation all that much more difficult. I think that the Brewers, given how they've used Turnbow which I think is a mistake, would rather hang onto McClung at this point rather than Turnbow. McClung has absolutely filthy stuff, and if he can throw his breaking ball over consistently for strikes, he could be the Brewers next closer, or even slide back into that rotation and be a huge get for this team. of course that's not likely, but it's more likely at this point than Turnbow becoming the closer again which I don't believe will happen. Plus T-bow makes 3.25 million, and I'm sure the Tigers, Phillies, Indians...any number of teams would gladly take that contract off our hands for him. I've gone back and forth on McClung but at this point, I'd like to see how it plays out rather than watch him become the next Bobby Jenks for another team.

Hey, I was just kinda mulling over the options the Brewers have right now with Yo coming off the DL, and one idea that kinda hit me that may not be a terrible idea is to go with a 6 man rotation for a stretch. Now you could work things out within that, possibly by having Sheets start on normal rest, and then everyone else kinda adjusting to that, or even holding Sheets to 5 days rest. The upside to me is that you put a lot less stress on everyone's arm, namely Parra, Gallardo and Villanueva. You also have 6 solid big league pitchers, and while Bush hasn't had great results, I think we all know that he's at least a very good number 5 pitcher in the big leagues who's not going to walk people like he has thus far. His numbers have also been skewed as he's gotten very poor defense in his first two starts resulting in 4 ER's crossing the plate that should not have with just average OF defense. This of course has made his numbers look much worse and been the catalyst for everyone calling for his head. Sheets could also benefit from a extra day of rest, but again, I don't know if that would make the most sense. Hell, if you wanted, you could even have Sheets AND Yo working on normal rest and then kinda work around it with the others. Now for those who would say that the BP would be short a man, you could easily have one guy designated to pitch in the pen should he be needed each night. You'd have guys going 6-7 days without getting a start. They could throw out of the pen two-three days after their start to stay sharp and get some work, and save the Bullpen. It's kinda a far out idea that's not likely to gain any traction, but just for the sake of argument, think about it for a second. I think it's one of those things that would actually help this team quite a bit.

Ok, I get it. You're just making baseless comments with absolutely nothing to substantiate them. Bush won't be in the league a long time? Yes, guys who throw strikes, throw 200 innings a year, and maintain an ERA around the league average usually have a very short run in the big leagues. Bush is one of the better number 5's in baseball, so I'm sorry to tell you, he's not in the big leagues because of this perceived bias that the entire Brewers organization has allowed to their detriment. He's also going to stick in the big leagues for a long time provided he stay healthy. As for the comment that Bush as a long man is such a waste...well, maybe, but if he's our 5th best starter, what do you want to do with him? I agree that to suggest he's not a solid pitcher who's at least league average for the most part, or that he's only up because of Yost is not even a little true, but we've got 5 better, and if he could play the same role that Villanueva had last year, he could become a huge X-factor for this team.

Yea, his last start, and the result was a quality start. However in his first two his defense was absolutely terrible. Braun mis-played a ball and put runners on 2nd and 3rd with no outs. 2 Runs came in that inning, 2 ER's because Braun never touched the ball. He would have likely gotten out of it without any runs. Then his second start two runs scored when Hart decided to hold the ball in RF and let Phillips I believe it was tag up on a shallow pop up, threw it past the catcher and 2 MORE runs scored. He should have 4 fewer ER's and his ERA should be better than either Parra or Villanueva's. Not saying he's pitched well, or that he should stay up, but the defense behind him the first two games was awful, and when he did get good D, he threw a good game. Of course, Dave Bush walking hitters doesn't help, but he doesn't normally do that, and as such, likely won't.I do fine your last sentence to be totally without merit and baseless. If they're considering taking him out now when he's pitched about as well as Parra and Villy, then I think they'd take him out before he reached 14 straight losses..unless you're trying to be funny.

You want to give Prince a 10 year deal at about 19 per year? First of all, with three years left of arbitration that's a huge number. Second, Prince is not the guy you want to lock into 10 years with. And I don't see Sheets taking a deal anywhere near that. I think if you want 5 years for Sheets, then you're talking about a discount on the yearly salary, but still around 14 or so. Maybe 5 years, 70 million, but even that would be a hometown discount.

Actually there were 19 of them in 2007. His point was obviously that those players don't exist on the free agent market as he went on to say how teams lock them up, ect..ect.. I don't think it's hard to realize that he didn't mean that players who win 15 games while pitching 200 innings don't exist. But maybe it's time the Brewers become the team who swoops in and takes advantage of a situation where a Marlins/Pirates type team is willing to sell off its top starter for a package of heralded nuggets like the great Brad Nelson, Zach Jackson, and Tim Dillard. That MIGHT get you a guy like Matt Morris. That's not going to get you a top starter on any team other than the Toldeo Mud Hens or whatever. I fully expect to see Ben Sheets in another uniform in 2009, but that, along with the end of a few other contracts can free up $15+ million to pursue an ace. And maybe this next ace won't be subject to 2-month injuries from paper cuts, or vertigo, every season. I don't think he wants to pitch. That's probably it. Sorry, this isn't in blue. It should be. Almost every power pitcher is going to miss time for injuries. It's just been his bad luck that he's missed them in consecutive seasons, and while your paper cut comment was really, and I mean really funny, it's also something I'd expect on the ESPN board. I've come to think of this board as having a little bit higher baseball IQ. Sheets missed time in 05 and 06 for his back. He had an incredibly rare ear infection that has never returned a 3rd time, tore a tendon in his finger, and suffered a hamstring injury. If you think you can find a power pitcher that's immune to all of those things, more power to you, but his elbow and shoulder are fine, and he's a helluva lot better than just about anyone else we could even think of signing. Again though, kudos on the "paper cut" comment. All I'm saying is, if Ben is willing to provide a discount, given all the time we've paid him to sit on his can and NOT pitch for us over the years, then yeah, I'd re-sign him. But that won't happen, and his DL time will be absorbed by some other team with a lot more money than we have. The Brewers have money. In fact, the Brewers make a lot of money and will make more this next off-season. They can easily afford Sheets if they decide to without it crippling them from making any other moves.