Gopher74

I don't believe anyone on here has said anything at all about us wanting to take 2nd place. The converstion is about how laughable it is that they view the Reds as being better than us. The fact that they think the Cubs are better isn't quite as laughable. I'm also pretty sure we didn't "try" to finish in 2nd last year, so there's really no need to "stop trying" to finish in 2nd.And by the way, why can't the WC come from the NLC? Who is the 2nd place team in another division that's going to be so much better than the Cubs or Brewers? That's an outdated idea. The NLC isn't a bad division any longer no matter what John Kruk says.

You're really not even a Brewers fan, are you? And what difference does it make if we have several good young starters? In any event, I'll assume you've changed your mind since we've gotten rid of Vargas, correct?

Meh, not that big of a deal to me as I don't know if a kid would ask the question, but I'm not a father, and I can understand why you find that so distasteful. I have a bit of a problem with that type of promotion or whatever you'd like to call it of having that for a full week. I mean, Penthouse isn't exactly classy(not that any are, but Playboy's a little better if I'm not mistaken...).

Not that I don't believe you, but according to what? What GM's have expressed this?

So what, you think Melvin and Yost flipped a coin? I'm pretty sure that their is logic IF that's what they decide to do(by the way, it seems to have gotten lost that a decision hasn't been made yet!!)in sending Villy down. Probably because they think that Parra's better. It's not really a crazy concept. Parra's stuff IS much, much better. And Vargas has looked like a different pitcher this spring with his change. That could really make him more efficient and help the team a great deal.

Not sure why you sound so confident when the Padres aren't. For a contending team like the Pads, roster spots are critical. It's entirely possible that he's not on their 25 man all season long and ends up back with the Brewers(unless we then work out a deal). I'd place it at about 50/50 he's back in Milwaukee or with the org at some point.

The Brewers(Gord Ash) has called into question Jones work ethic and his toughness, so I don't know how many chances the Brewers have left to give him. It'd be great though if he could get it back. He had great stuff. He could solve our closer problem for years to come, but I'm more confident that duty may fall to a Mark Rogers, Jeremy Jeffress then Jones.

They haven't really "moved" Iribarren, they just want him to learn other positions to maximize his value. He can still play 2nd just fine. Not to mention we've got Escobar who could play short and slide Hardy over to 2nd making our defense that much better if Dillon didn't work out...though, I think he would. He's got such a great swing and such a great approach, it's hard to not have confidence in him. And Dillon's put up ridiculous numbers in AAA the last several years. Sure, it was against younger players, but he still has to hit the ball, and he's done that very well. I don't think there's any reason to suggest Joe Dillon won't be a solid offensive player, especially for a 2nd basemen. That said, I don't want to get rid of Weeks. I don't like Blanton that much, and while I think Street's great, I'll take the power hitting 2nd basemen over the great young closer.

I totally agree. Even last year when he clearly wasn't right, he still finished top 5 in baseball for leadoff hitters in OBP, SLG and OPS. That's not bad for a guy who people think hasn't even come close to touching his potential. So even if last year is what you get with Rickie, he's still a pretty solid player. The thing is, I think it's clear that's not what he is. He's shown what he can do, now he has to show it over a full season. And on a final note, I don't think anyone's giving him unlimited time, I'm just saying, even if he has a decent, but not great year next year, it still doesn't mean he won't break out. He'll STILL just be 25 at the end of this year, and 26 all next year(09), so while the "he's got so much potential" line is getting tiresome, I don't think it's quite as critical as some do that he breaks out in a big way this year. Critical to the Brewers success, just not the fatal blow to his career if he doesn't.

Yea, I guess I can buy that. Maybe it was just the relief of not being in the spotlight for a couple days and being able to relax. Heck, look at what happened with him in between the time you posted this and now. He went down to a AAA game for a day, had a double and a triple, came back and had a great game with a 3 run shot. Maybe that's the key with Rickie. Just let him play in a minor league game from time to time.

I don't think anyone has said that, but if it helps your argument, then go for it.... No? Everytime something about a young player comes up, it's "he's probably not going to be here in the future anyway". And if that's not the general feeling, then why is our window just three years? It's like that's the boards consensus so everyone kinda assumes it's fact. But if you want to take one line from my entire post, and make a sarcastic comment without any real value whatsoever, then go for it.....

We're not going to have much depth next year. We could lose Torres, Mota, and Gange. And like I said in my original post, he could be a possible bullpen option down the road as he does throw hard and have a good second pitch. And who cares if it takes time for him to be effective again? Clearly if we were hoping he'd be this year, we'd be in big trouble. And, yea, the chances are that he never pans out, but again, what's it really cost us if he doesn't? We're not giving anything up? Oh well, guess I'm alone in this one. That's alright. I'll just bookmark this thread and bring it up when he gets back on top.....or quietly let it fade in to bolivian like Mike Tyson would say.

I didn't say he was. I said we'd stick him in AAA in hopes that he'd figure it out. If he did, he's got pretty good stuff and ability that it would seem to be a good risk/reward type situation when there's really no risk at all. I think he must be pretty much done as well. Why would Washington release him otherwise. They have the worst rotation in baseball and released him. That says something in itself. I don't see him as a better option than Vargas or Bush at this point either. Capuano possibly depending on what his injury turns out to actually be. Obviously he's not going to come into Milwaukee and get a starting spot beating out Vargas or Bush at this point. I never suggested that at all. I said stick him in AAA, and then if nothing else, try him as a reliever next year. Let him work back this season, and then try him out. Throws in the mid 90's, curve. Maybe he's a guy who could have success going to the pen. But no, of course he's not a better option than our starters right now. As for the Nats releasing him, they're in a rebuilding mode. Maybe they just wanted to go with young guys knowing that he's not going to be around. I don't know. Maybe they don't want to wait for him to get healthy.

Obviously I'm asking the question from the Brewers organizations point of view. I don't know why he'd come here. Maybe because he believes he's a solid pitcher, he wants to be part of a good team. Because we'd have success turning guys careers around. Because he likes Brats. I don't know. He did just get cut from Washington, not exactly a team flush with big league options, so we're not talking about Johan Santana. Should WE do it was more the question.

Sure he can still play CF. He started the majority of the games he played last year in Center, and only moved to LF when he got to Cleveland and he was playing with Sizemore. He's played CF every year of his career, and while he doesn't have a strong arm anymore, he's just fine out there. And no,he doesn't have great power, but that's alright when a guy gets on base, something he still does very well. Of course there are flaws with his game, but the upside far outweighs the downside, and with the Brewers losing Cameron for 25 games, they're basically going with Gwynn, a guy they pray can be like Kenny Lofton. With all the money they've got locked up in players that are likely going to play a lesser role, you'd think they'd jump at the chance to grab him for 2 or so million. I'm guessing that a contender will grab him at some point in the season just as someone will do with Barry Bonds.

He was a hard thrower when he came up I guess, but it sounds like now he's in the 89-91 range, toping out at 92 or so. But he does have 4 pitches. It'll be interesting to keep an eye on him. Seems like the type of guy who could make some noise in the future for the Brewers.

Or Mota who they were just talking about being friends with Gange and Gange welcoming him by talking about how it'd be just like old times when they were in LA. I really doubt that there's much truth to this. Sounds like an axe to grind.

Eric Gange knows what it's like to be out there in the 9th inning. He's got the best Save pct of all time, so i don't know how many mental issues we need to work out there. As for the scenario you gave, the problem there is that in that scenario obviously you'd take Bush out early as he'd be going over his pitch limit. You don't bring a guy in, especially a guy like Gange so he can save a ST'ing game when he's on a schedule and he may have worked a couple times already in the past couple days. Again, what's it going to accomplish? Who cares if we don't win, and Gange's just fine mentally. That's never been an issue. Even when he's come back for short periods of time from the DL, he's been very good. When he's been healthy, he's always been a good pitcher. But just for arguments sake, lets say his head wasn't "screwed on". What would that do? They're not going to take him out of the closers role because of ST'ing. It's not like he doesn't know that it's not important. So you're not finding anything out before opening day in either scenario.

He doesn't have to resemble Cordero. He's nothing at all like Cordero. Cordero was fastball in the mid 90's and a slider. Gange is fastball, change which is nasty, and curve. Last year he didn't even break camp with the Rangers because he was sore, and he had a great first half of the year over there. His velocity was also way down early in last years ST'ing and it jumped up considerably when the season started. He'll be fine as long as he's healthy and he's healthy right now.

I think it's pretty obvious by "best" he meant "closest". Rottino is not a more talented backstop than Salome. I think people are reading waaay too much into this. It was a "sorry we're sending ya down, but hey, now you can catch and you're our best catching prospect". I don't think it means anything for Salome.

You kinda went from not liking sports shows and the coverage they get to a far more serious issue calling into question the integrity of American Journalist. The truth is, the American Media is the best media in the world. I hear all the complaining about how Fox News will run stories on Anna Nicole, and that's annoying, but in an era of 24 hour news channels, you're going to get some of that. By the way Brian, did they identify the Weather Girl as a Penthouse Pet?

I don't think that it's that unlikely that Pena gets a callup at some point on the 25 man, but I think that there would have to be a trainwreck for him to get the closers spot. He could be the next reliever in line if he's throwing the ball well down in AAA, and we're likely going to see at least a couple guys go down this year, so I would expect that either Brey or Pena get the cal before the All-Star break.

Wang's a poor example. In the year he finished 2nd in Cy Young voting he had a 2.17 ERA in his wins, so it wasn't that he was getting a lot of run support, it's that he was a great pitcher that year. And in fact, last year when he also got 19 wins his ERA in those wins was 2.19. And with Carl Pavano he had come off two 200 IP seasons, and in his FA year he threw 223 IP with a 3.00 ERA with a 1.17 whip. I think that GM's are smart enough to understand that W's and L's only tell part of the story. Have Pavano stayed healthy, you could argue that he'd have been worth 10 million a year. Bottom line, you can't win 18+ games unless you're a good pitcher, but a good pitcher can have a poor W/L record.

All those players you listed were still pretty young when Melvin snatched them up, Kapler is old. Plenty of extremely marginal vets through the years have been ale to come into a spring training for teams and hit well, but stink up the joint once they have to face big league pitchers instead of camp arms quite a bit. As I said, I wasn't specifically talking about Gabe Kapler when I was making my point, I was talking about using any of the projections to say that we should bring this player to camp or that we shouldn't bring that player to camp as opposed to letting Doug Melvin and the Scouting Dept invite a guy to camp and then decide to go with him. I can't imagine that Doug Davis was greeted much differently than Gabe Kapler on this board given his high walk rates and the fact that he very likely wasn't "projected" to have a good year at all when he first got here. Either way, my point still stands, we're without Cameron for the first 25 games, and the options we had to play LF were all left handed(Gross and Gwynn) and can't hit right handers very well at all. I just can't see why people would be upset with bringing Kapler, a good defender in to see if he can resurrect his baseball career for 25 games. And if he's around after the first 25 games, he likely played very well. I don't care at all that Melvin brought Kapler to camp, but he has hit like crap his last three seasons in the bigs, plus he's coming off a full season not playing. Odds likely are much higher that Kapler would continue his crappy hitting with us that he did the last three years he played than him magically finding some fountain of youth and hitting decent like he did when he was JJ Hardy's age. I don't believe the argument was ever made that he'd "magically" do anything, but we needed a cheap right handed CF'er who we could possibly get rid of after 25 games. That he's not projected to hit well isn't a argument against bringing him in.

Yea, but he's always had those issues, and he's always maintained a good On-Base.