Gopher74

Nobody ever said that it did. In fact, it's been readily acknowledged on here that he is not a great base runner. The only point that I've made on here is that anyone calling Hardy slow is absolutely wrong. It went from me saying he was not slow and that he is in fact actually one of the fastest Brewers. A couple people telling me how wrong I was, it being proven that he's one of the fastest, to now excuses being made for why despite the actual facts he's really not that fast or how being fast doesn't make him a great base runner...which was never disputed. Bottom line, Hardy has good speed. Unless someone can give me a more recent time that proves otherwise, the fact remains that he, when tested, was one of the fastest Brewers.

So because he's not hitting for a lot of power, it's because the Twins are telling him not to? I'd have thought that was a joke but it was said and then reiterated in a previous post. I think it's a little silly how we pick out organizations on here and mock them for these outrageous things that we claim they do as if they don't know as much as us on here. If you ask me, the Twins have a pretty good idea what they're doing with player development. I'm sure Twins fans on a forum could sit there and mock the Brewers management for telling their pitchers in the minors "not to throw strikes", or something equally silly. Wouldn't make it anymore true than this.

That's probably because most young pitchers struggle with their command when they throw hard. I suppose by the time they're Juniors in college, they've either figured it out, or they've flamed out. I also don't know why Jeffress would be in there yet. He's thrown the ball exceptionally well thus far in his career, and doesn't really fit the profile you're suggesting the Brewers follow. The bottom line is that prep arms have the higher ceilings unless you're picking at the very top of the 1st round, and you could likely put together a list from any organization and you'd have one that contained many high profile busts. I guess I'm just of the opinion that you put together as many guys like Jeffress, Rogers, Gallardo, as you possible can. The high ceiling power pitchers. Those are the types that win you playoff series. And while most will flame out, you try and get as many as you can and hope that you can find a couple who can put it together. Right now it's worked with Yo, Parra and Sheets. Of course Yo's out with a bit of a fluke injury, but still the point remains. To go after a college pitcher with a lower ceiling just doesn't offer enough upside to me. To me I want either a flame throwing young Prep Arm, a college arm that's dropped because of injury concerns, or a college closer. The college starter such as Hunt or Scheppers gives you a guy who could be both closer and who has a high ceiling. Fields solves a problem right now, and while I hate drafting for need, if you take the other 5 high picks and draft BPA, you could get a potentially dominant closer who could help your team out right now.

Who's Gange? Seriously? You couldn't piece that puzzle together? I mean, yea, I'm sure it was pretty tricky, what we me talking about the Brewers closers and typing "Gange" rather than "Gagne", but I guess I'd hope anyone with even the most remedial common sense skills would be able to make that difficult connection. Usually this type of wit is reserved for the ESPN boards, but I'm glad to see that it's made it's way over here as well.

Well that's a significant adjustment to the trade. You go from a closer, a very, very good young closer, but a closer all the same to Soria AND a young potential top of the rotation type starter. Yea, I'd go for that deal now, and I don't think that Hochevar's lost any luster, but I have a hard time seeing the Royals giving up two immensely talented young pitchers for LaPorta when they've got 1st and the corners pretty well covered. I just don't see the Brewers making a move for a closer right now, and frankly I don't see it as a spot that you'd give up one of your top young prospects for. Especially a prospect that's going to allow you to do a lot of things in the future(ie, dealing Prince).

Well, Washburn's also only had one season in his entire career in which his ERA was over 4.67. Yea, he's not an ace, but he's got a career ERA of 4.16 in the AL. He's a solid number 3 pitcher in the NL right now IMO. I must say though, your logic doesn't make much sense to me. You don't think the Brewers are in a position to make a trade for someone unless their pitching improves and if their pitching improves I don't know if they will be looking for a league average pitcher? Well, they could make the trade in order to improve their pitching. The suggestion seems to be that the Brewers are out of it right now. They've played a brutal schedule so far, and they've struggled to hit the ball, but it's very early, and they're showing signs of getting some of their starters going a little bit. Namely Parra who's been better as of late, Bush was good tonight, and McClung was incredibly impressive. I think the point is they could use this trade in order to put themselves in better shape to make a run. Your logic seems to leave the Brewers without any cause to make a trade ever. If they're winning, then that means they're pitching, so why make a trade. If they're losing, why make a trade because they're losing anyway.

So despite not having a clue as to the specifics of the proposed trade between the Jays and the Giants, you have no problem calling it non-sense? In the future before you essentially call people out for lying by calling what's pretty much common knowledge "non-sense" check into it first. It's understandable to not be informed on a topic. It's not understandable to be critical about that topic that you're uninformed about. It's actually pretty easy to find out by the way. Google it. Dozens of articles show up. I guess they COULD all be non-sense though.

Why isn't Sabean the future? He's been there since the mid 90's I believe, and was the GM while the team was in contention year in and year out, going to the playoffs nearly every year. I know it's the "cool" joke on this board to mock Sabean, but he's been a pretty good GM for the most part. Certainly the Giants are down right now, and the Barry Zito deal looks like an albatross over their necks right now, but I have to think the Giants ownership is going to look at a little more than right now when evaluating Sabean. Plus, the team's not as far away as people seem to think. Starting pitching-Check. They'll pick high in the draft, get a couple impact players(possible a guy like Alverez), they've got Villalona on his way, Rowand, a couple nice OF'ers, and Molina. They've got the money to sign players. Sign a guy like Renteria and Texiera and they're a competitive team very shortly. That team's not "as bad" and as far away as people on this forum seem to think.

I have to imagine that story has been significantly distorted in the last couple years. I don't imagine that the Twins discouraged Ortiz from driving the ball, and I don't believe they do the same with their current young power hitters, namely Justin Morneau or Delmon Young. In fact, I'd be willing to be just about anything that the Twins absolutely never told Ortiz to stop drawing "so many" walks, or to stop hitting for power.

Without question. Prince Fielder is a great player. A premium offensive player. However, this team will be a much better team next year with Matt LaPorta or Mat Gamel(I prefer Gamel at 1st because I believe that he has the ability to turn into a very, very good defensive 1st basemen) manning 1st and Clayton Kershaw in our rotation and Johnathan Broxton as our closer. In fact, I think that this team almost has to make that type of deal to become a true WS contender. Pitching wins playoff series, and even moreso, POWER pitching wins short series. If the Braves would have had another John Smotlz rather than Greg Maddux or Tom Glavine I believe they'd have won at least 2 more World Series.

Based on what? I'm seriously here. Because you say so? Because he doesn't "look" fast? The very simple fact of the matter is using the only quantifiable, objective evaluation we have, he was one of the fastest Brewers on the team. Just because everyone buys into a myth doesn't make it true. JJ Hardy has good speed. That's not a matter of opinion, it's a matter of fact.

Sheets has thrown around 96 all year. Torres has also thrown in the mid 90's all year. Not sure why those guys throwing that hard would come as a surprise to you. In fact, Sheets usually is around 90-92 for the 1st inning, and then when he gets warmed up is between 93-96 the rest of the day.

Yea, that's certainly part of it, but still, when a guy tops out at 96, even if he's moved from starter to reliever, usually he'll sit around 90-94 as a starter. Dillard even hit 97 on the FSN gun once. He's just got a better arm than I thought. I will say this, with that sinker, I'd be in favor of him as a starter again. The one pitcher that I'd feel comfortable with having just 2 pitches is a guy with a great sinker. Brandon Webb, Derek Lowe and Tim Hudson all have more pitches, but they go with their sinker and breaking ball probably 90 pct of the time. Dillar's got a slider that looked pretty solid. IF he can just get that change working, I'd like to see him back as a starter. Then again, a guy who can throw that sinker at 94-96 with a slider could be a very good reliever. He looks like he has closers stuff. At least the stuff of a SU man. We could sure use that.

I think it goes without saying, and I'd imagine nearly everyone on this site will agree that Prince is going to get white hot and start mashing the ball. I also think that almost everyone would agree that while he's struggled a bit, that's most certainly not the reason the Brewers want to deal Prince. The reasons are; 1-If they re-sign him, it's going to be for huge money. Meaning that we're going to lose other players. Players such as Yo, Hart, Manny, Weeks, and so on. To me it's not so much that they can't re-sign Prince. I know they can. There's no question that they can. It's simply that they shouldn't. 2-The Brewers right now clearly need pitching. It would be fine if Yo hadn't gotten hurt, but he has, and now Sheets is set to be a FA next year. While I believe that the Brewers will keep Sheets at an inflated price, the Brewers could still use another frontline guy to really be a force. They could also use a young closer. 3-The Brewers have maybe 2 of the top 6-10 offensive prospects in the minors right now, and each could play 1st base better than Prince does right now by a substantial margin. I could see Gamel being a future GG'er at 1st as he is good picking it at 3rd, but struggles with his throws due to footwork. LaPorta's also a very solid defensive 1st basemen. So with Braun locked up Prince is the one guy who could bring you a young ace and a reliever who could close, plays a position in which you could bring up a guy right now who'd be likely league average at worst, and who is going to force the organization to make a huge financial decision in the near future. So no, nobody hates Prince. I believe that as Brewers fans we're a big more sophisticated than that. Thinking it's wise to deal a guy in order to make the club better has very little to do with personal feelings.

We're not going to get a pitcher without warts at this point in time. That much should be clear with the signing of Taverez. A "head case" generally means that a pitcher has good stuff, but that he struggles with confidence. I'd rather take a chance on a guy like that(which Weaver is) than a guy who doesn't have anything, and you know isn't going to give you anything. Loaiza isn't a star by anymeans, but he's the type of guy who could benefit greatly from the tutelage of Jason Kendall and who could give us a few good starts. The question is, who would you take out of that starting rotation? Sheets and Suppan are set. Parra's been throwing pretty well the last couple weeks. McClung's a huge, giant question mark, but he's also got huge, giant upside. Maybe Bush goes to the pen and you send Jackson down? I don't know. I do know that Bartolo Colon would have been absolutely beautiful in Nashville for the last couple months and then for the Brewers. Oh well. I'll bet people called him(and rightfully so) a head case.

I don't think that quality pitching "has" to be added. I just think that with the current pitching, we need guys to realize their potential and stay healthy. A rotation of Sheets, Gallardo, Parra, Bush and then Suppan/McClung/Capuano/Villanueva could be average or above average in each slot being very, very good at the back. Sheets is a average ace IMO as I'd rank him somewhere around 10-15 when he's healthy(at least). Yo's a very good number 2. Could be one of the top 5 number 2's. Parra's got ace stuff. Bush could be a fantastic number 4. McClung's also got front of the rotation stuff. Villy's got number 3 stuff. Suppan's a very good middle to back of the rotation type guy. Cappy's had success. So yes, I think that this team needs to pitch better, and that's very likely going to requite adding pitching, but to say that this team cannot compete with the pitchers they have now I think is premature since Yo, Manny, Villy, and McClung all have a lot of room to work within their potential. Now this isn't to say that I don't agree with your larger point. I absolutely do. In the above scenario that pitching is good enough provided most things go right, most pitchers realize their potential and we're a good offensive club. Those are too many things to have to count on for me, however my position is still that this team's pitching COULD be good enough. And I'm with you, I'd really like to see Prince dealt for a pitching prospect, and not just a good one, a great one. A Porcello type with a Zumaya type reliever thrown in. That would be those two, Broxton and Kershaw, Adenhart and maybe Saunders(Though neigher is a reliever). And they should be cheap. Otherwise I fear the Brewers are going to sign Prince. I don't make this deal because I don't think we can sign him. There's absolutely no question we CAN. It's whether we should, and how badly that's going to adversely effect Hart, Weeks, Yo, Parra, ect..ect.. Bottom line, we will not compete as long as 4/5 of our rotation are 4th or 5th starters at best. Which pitchers in our rotation right now at "at best" just 4 or 5's? Parra? Certainly not. McClung? Nope. I think you're overstating this. Right now I'd call both 4/5's, and McClung not even that, and they may never reach that potential, but "at best" taken literally, they're far more than that.

The Brewers games. But lets just say that they do say that. So what? The simple fact is that he is not slow. But again, they've made comments about his base stealing ability. Not about his pure speed. JJ's very fast. Not sure why people can't see past SB's to gauge a guy's speed. There is a lot more to stealing bases than just speed.

Disagree on that thought. He was faster and more powerful prior to last year. He battled back injuries and shoulder injuries and it's anyone's guess as to whether he will or won't be the same player again. He ran that time last year. And last year he hit 26 HR's. I don't know where the claim can be made, nor justified that he used to be stronger and faster, but now isn't because of back and shoulder injuries that preceded the time we're talking about, and a HR total that was one more than he hit in 300+ games in the minors, and far more than he's hit in the big leagues. So when were these injuries? The shoulder was in Triple A before he ever came up. The Back injuries were all minor injuries. Spasm's and what not. Kinda hard to make the claim that it's made him this vastly different player when he performed better during those injuries than ever before them.

Wow, I mean, just, wow. You did mean to type one of the slowest, right? Not at all. I meant one of the fastest. And to the person who made mention of these announcers who make mention of how slow Hardy is, I've never once heard that, and I watch every single game(DVR the ones I can't watch live). I've heard them say he's not a great base stealer. Never that he wasn't fast. I swear though, I got a strike for saying the exact same thing...the "wow...just wow" part. Not that I take any offense to it whatsoever. Just pointing that out.....

It's funny how sometimes sarcasm is alright, and other times it gets people all worked up. Anyway, what exactly do you think Prince is worth if not a very good young starting pitcher who hasn't throwin the big leagues yet and a good young SU man who's got a future as a closer? That's almost exactly where Prince's value lies.

I was, but I don't see how you can fault Melvin now. I wanted them to keep Vargas as insurance and put him in the long relief role. The role now filled by McClung. That was really the only place they were going to use him at. Either that, or hope he accepted a demotion. I just thought that his change looked much improved. But again, it's just really two good starts, and the logic was pretty solid.

Briggs, have you ever injured your ACL? It's not nearly the type of catostrophic event you're making it out to be. I blew my ACL out and I was back wrestling within 6 months. Now that requires a lot more strength and confidence than simply pushing off in baseball. There's absolutely no reason why Gallardo won't be back at full strength next year. He may not be as quick from Home to 1st, but he'll be just fine on the mound. In any event, it's most certainly not dreaming. And I realize this post is early on and that since there have been rumblings about him coming back this year, but I'd assume he's been throwing the ball since about a week after his surgery. Yes, I've read others say this. Haven't heard why yet. So...why? Not only why, but how can you possible predict a major shoulder injury to a shoulder that's structurally fine and to a pitcher showing absolutely no sign of injury? He is anything but guaranteed to get 5-6 years on the FA market. Sheets is not the top pitcher on the FA market. CC is all but guaranteed to get a 5-6 year deal as a FA. Sheets is more around 3-4, maybe 5, but I'd be surprised if he got 5 years. (combined consecutive posts --1992)

It's like you took the words right out of my mind and put them into your post. I fancy myself pretty knowledgeable on the scouting reports of the Brewers prospects, but with Dillard, I thought he was guy who sat around 88-92 and who was a good GB pitcher. Clearly I was wrong. And I'm thrilled to be. Velocity isn't everything, but it's pretty damn nice!

I'm not going to speak on what's going to happen in the future because frankly, I don't know, nor will I pretend I do. I will say, if he did it once at age 24-25, to say he'll "never, ever" do it again is probably not a real wise thing to say. But Hardy's slow running? Huh? Why, because he doesn't steal bases? Hardy is one of the fastest Brewers on the team.

How many runs a pitcher allows is most certainly not a bad way to evaluate a pitcher. IN the end, it's really the only way. It can be mis-leading in short samples, but to throw it out as an unreliable method to gauge pitchers? What then would be?