paul253

Mackenzie Gore

I'm curious as to why JB doesn't project as a starter? Is it only because of his size? Do results not matter any more? Thornburg always seemed destined for the bullpen despite nothing but success as a starter. I certainly hope there is more to this projection than his height and/or body frame.

There are a lot of names I'm excited about but Adell and Kendall aren't those names.

You can never have enough pitching. Plus we've had so many top prospects flame out that until they actually have success I'm not counting on any of our minor leaguers. Hader and Lopez both struggled in AAA (granted is it Colorado Springs) and Ortiz has been good but not great in AA this year. Other than Woodruff I'm not overly confident in any of our pitching prospects being able to come up here and become a true 1 or 2. Another poster summed up my stance perfectly. Go BPA but if pitching is close you take the arm, particularly if the other player is an outfielder where we currently have 4 guys in AAA who have shown they are deserving of a shot should someone go down for an extended period of time.

Some people also realize that sometimes your team is going nowhere and trading away certain players, like bulllpen arms last year whose value was through the roof, is the best course of action. I don't know if you prefer the "stay put and maybe all of our guys will all of a sudden get really really good" model but as another poster pointed out we tried that and it didn't work. The key to this thing is pitching and, let's face it, we don't have it. At least we didn't the last few years when we threw some pretty bad teams out there. But thanks to trading away some of our guys we acquired three pretty decent young arms in Hader Ortiz and Bickford. And who knows if any of them will have any major league success but I do know we weren't exactly celebrating championship after championship with the guys we used to get them. And all of those guys were nearing the end of their contracts with us so we also could have lost them for nothing. Again, not a great strategy for us. We all want to win. We just don't always agree on the best way to do it. I personally think what they did, in trading away all the expensive veterans whose contracts were nearing an end and who clearly weren't producing championships for us, was the best way to go. Now as far as trading a catcher. I'm fine with it if A: you believe whoever you hold onto can handle full time catching duty and B: you get good enough value. If you believe they're both playing over their heads and will come back to earth soon then trade them both.

I'm not making conclusions about the future. I'm just saying we haven't been loaded with arms for as long as I've been following the minor league system. And a lot of the guys we've all thought would turn into decent starters have not. So to say we don't need to focus on pitching because we have guys that might turn into 2s or 3s is fine, but history suggests it's not likely to happen. So when we have the chance to acquire a guy who profiles as a top of rotation guy I don't think we should pass on the chance. We're not the Cubs. Those opportunities are few and far between. Unfortunately the economics of baseball are such that only a select few teams can sign established aces so short of giving up the farm the only other chance to acquire one is to draft him. While I respect the BPA philosophy I think it would be foolish to draft yet another outfielder in the first round when the system is flush with outfielders. If the far and away BPA is an outfielder then fine. Take him. But I have a hard time believing Kendall or Adell or whoever else is going to be far and away better than the best non-outfielder. To your point earlier it's true that just because we are deep at a certain position doesn't mean they'll all turn out. But with the depth we have in the outfield we have so many options to replace guys that we can afford to take a year off and look elsewhere. If Santana or Braun gets hurt we can call up Brinson. If Brinson sucks we can go to Cordell. If Cordell sucks we can go to Phillips. If Phillips sucks we still have our last two first rounders to fall back on. Meanwhile when we needed a starter earlier this season we went with.......Tommy Millone. It's a lack of depth that causes panic moves like signing Lohse, Suppan and Garza. And finally let's say everything works out perfectly. Hader Woodruff Ortiz and Lopez all hit their ceilings and more lower level guys step up too. That's the best problem we can possibly have. We can use them as trade bait to get an established ace and we probably wouldn't have to give up as much as if we were trying to create a package consisting of outfielders. A top pitching prospect has more value then a top positional prospect precisely because it is so much more difficult to get the pitcher. I get the argument then we shouldn't focus on pitching. I really do. But I just don't see how an organization like Milwaukee can afford to pass on pitching with two consecutive top nine picks. If it's close, go pitching.

It's not unreasonable to say in a few years our farm will be loaded with arms. But given that that hasn't happened in at least two decades I'd say it is unlikely. It's also not unreasonable to say that everyone we are counting on to become our 2s and 3s will be duds or simply not as good as we think they'll be. Peralta and Nelson were two our our best pitching prospects in years and they are hardly guys we can build our franchise around. Thornburg was our top overall prospect once putting up great minor league numbers and he never became a 2 or 3 (mostly becuase they never even gave him a chance to) So now we're just supposed to assume Hader, Lopez, and Woodruff are all going to break the mold at the same time? I sure hope so but I have my doubts. We only have so many opportunities to obtain pitchers with 1 or 2 upside. I realize people can turn it on late and become studs when nobody expected them to but I'd personally prefer to get the guy who profiles as one as opposed to the guy who could figure it out later.

They're going to draft an outfielder again.

That's true, but how are we going to know unless they get a shot? And how are they going to get a shot when there are so many others who need to get a shot? On a side note, I know I'm a broken record right now but this would be less of a problem if we were in the AL and Braun could be our full time DH. AL teams have such an advantage in this area and given there are interleague games every day it's time they standardize the rule. Why should NL teams have to make personnel decisions AL teams don't have to make?

I think we also have to consider the possibility that quality players don't get the chance they deserve there's nowhere to put them. And I don't think it's as easy to flip these guys for quality pitching as it may seem. While many of these guys could be quality every day players most aren't the top notch prospects you need to acquire a top of the rotation pitcher, especially the ones we'd be willing to trade. I doubt, they'd trade Brinson or Ray for instance. Plus you'll likely need to part with multiple prospects, including pitchers, to get a quality starter back. I think you'd need more than, say, Phillips and Doubon to get a quality starter back.

FYI 2017 IIHF World Championships are going on right now. USA-Sweden is on NHL network as I write this. USA fielding a young team but has some talented guys. I think they have theee or four more games in the preliminary round.

Lavar clearly craves attention. That's why he says the stupid things he says. But, whatever. If he's willing to use his kids to make money and his kids are willing to be used then so be it. I happen to think some things are more important than money but everyone is free to feel however they want.

From MLB trade rumors: To me this furthers the argument about how much of an advantage AL teams have by being able to use a DH. Braun would most likely be our DH right now, or at least able to DH every so often to rest his arm. Instead he's forced to sit out a few days due to injury, which probably gives teams pause about trading for him, especially NL teams like the Dodgers. This DH rule is so stupid now. I don't care what direction they do but they need to make it a uniform rule.

Well 11 teams passed on him. I'm not sure how many passed on him because of his off field issues vs passing in him becuase they had someone rated higher or because they didn't want to spend what it would take to sign him. Remember Boston went almost half a million dollars over slot to sign him.

Perhaps that's the issue some have with the Brewers philosophy. Too safe. And I say this without knowing what Groomes issues were. Perhaps they were that bad. But obviously at least one club felt that the reward was worth the risk and he's been pretty good so far, minus one start this year. Groome was the guy I wanted badly last year and was very very upset that they passed on him. But the Brewers played it safe with Ray. Hopefully he figures things out.

I feel like Ray was the BPA for the Brewers in how they view their players. This new front office seems to be in love with tools which to me explains why they've targeted so many toolsy outfielders, like Ray Broxton and Brinson, and middle infielders like Diaz and Dubon. I also think they prefer college pitchers to high school and higher floors to higher ceilings when it comes to pitching. That's why im afraid they'll pass on pitching again because they feel they'll be able to get high floor pitchers in the later rounds.

Yeah I've never meant to suggest you take a pitcher just to take a pitcher. If there are no pitchers worthy of your pick then you go another direction. I'm just saying all things being equal, or close to equal, i think we have enough in the outfield that we can and should avoid selecting another one in the first round, thus making outfielders your top pick three years in a row. This draft seems to be stronger in pitching. I'd be surprised if we cant find someone with at least a #2 upside at 9.

Of course I understand how hard it is to get one. A team with Milwaukee will never sign one. They don't currently have the ammo to trade for a young one now, given that most of their major trade assets are gone. They can trade for an established one like they did Greinke and Sabathia but as with those two they are obviously short term solutions that cost a ton in terms of prospects. So that pretty much leaves the draft. That's why, in my opinion, when you have the opportunity to get a guy who profiles as a 1 or 2 you jump on that opportunity, especially when you're a team like Milwaukee who has so few chances to get one. As far as BPA, I usually agree with that strategy. I understand how often players wash out and there's no guarantee that drafting three outfielders in a row means you'll have three major league outfielders. But at some point you have to address need. And we always need pitching. Always. If a you're between a pitcher and an outfielder and maybe you grade the outfielder a tad bit better I'd be fine taking the pitcher even though he isn't technically the BPA. Quality Outfielders tend to be much easier to acquire then quality pitchers. They have no less then four quality outfield prospects in Brinson, Ray, Phillips and Clark, in addition to guys like Cordell, Santana and Harrison. And again, while I understand they all aren't going to make, there's enough there to take a chance on something else No you don't need an ace but you still need quality and you need depth. That's obvious to anyone whose watches this team that last ten years. When he have a TOR starter and quality depth we are good. When we don't we aren't. I think Hader could be a 2 but he needs to really improve his control because he's walking too many guys and last season he could barely get out of the 6th inning many times because his pitch count was too high. Ortiz Woodruff Lopez Bickford Taylor Williams and a few others all seem like quality arms but, as has been argued, many prospects won't make it so we surely can't count on all of those guys. I don't think there is such a thing as a glut of pitching. Other than maybe the Mets a few seasons ago I can't think of many teams that had too much quality pitching. And if it does b come a problem, well that's probably the best problem you can have.

In the last Star Wars rebels episode it shows Ohio-Wan killing Darth Maul.....again. As he's preparing to fight Maul he gets in his typical fighting stance with the lightsaber pointing forward and two fingers extended. But then right before Maul attacks he switches stances and holds the lightsaber as one would hold a baseball bat when preparing to hit. This is the exact same position Rey held the lightsaber when she was preparing to fight Kylo Ren. I'd bet money Rey is a Kenobi. Too many hints pointing in that direction in my opinion for her not to be.

If they are still a mediocre baseball team because they have no pitching then yes.

If the Brewers take yet another outfielder I'll be furious. I also understand the BPA argument but at some point you have to address needs and pitching is always a need. You can't just keep taking outfielder after outfielder after outfielder, and then acquire more outfielders via trade. They've really improved their outfield stock the past few years with the acquisitions of Clark, Ray, Phillips and Brinson but while they got some decent arms as well they still lack TOR pitching prospects. I just don't see how this organization can avoid pitching with back to back top 10 picks. I'd even be ok with a guy like Pavin Smith vs another outfielder.

Yeah perhaps if we had something in the minors to replace Thames we could considered trading him. But we don't seem to have much at first and we don't seem to have a wealth of power hitters either. Stearns has shown a preference for toolsy up the middle type players so it wouldn't be a terrible idea to hang onto Thames.

Outside of the Michigan-Ohio St college football game, USA vs Canada is my favorite sporting event between two specific teams to watch. I watch the World Juniors every year but there is really something special about a USA-Canada Olympic hockey game, especially when pros are playing. As far as the Admirals go, awesome job on making the playoffs. It's a bit of a long shot but I'm still hoping for a division title.

Not that I'm terribly against that, but they already have a tournament consisting entirely of college guys, at least on the US side. There's just something about a tournament with all the best players in the world representing their country. Unlike the NBA and MLB where most of the best guys usually sit out even when pros are allowed to play, the NHLs stars are always out there representing the US. It's a shame that money is preventing them from doing that. Alex Ovechin said he was going to play regardless. I wonder if enough players just said "screw it we're playing regardless" would the NHL owners kinda of have to take a break?

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/nhl-will-not-participate-in-2018-winter-olympics-201941818.html It was announced the other day that NHL players will not be participating in the 2018 Winter Olympics. Very disappointing and as usual greed has everything to do with it. NHL owners want more money for letting their "assets" play. Meanwhile The IOC doesn't want to spread their wealth at all. So it's the fans, and probably the ratings, that will suffer. The NHL seem to be the only sports whose stars actually want to participate and now that isn't going to be happening. I'll still watch becuase I love international hockey but man this is disappointing. The US has some very good young talent like Eichel and Matthews that will miss out, as well as a few older guys like Kessel who likely will not get another chance to play in the Olympics.