OnTheBlack

So...how do you turn that into a baseball nickname? Key? Hiuraree? Remember, they have to end in an ey or ee almost exclusively. Scratch that, they can also end in an ie...as in Braunie. But you're really walking out on a limb getting too far away from those..

Saying that is the same as saying Bill Belichik traded away Clay Matthews. Almost....now make Clay Matthews a 18 year old kid who almost nobody else is looking at and who has built his trust up within ONE single person and by extension one organization(Dallas) and make Matthews a player who almost certainly isn't going to come to Green Bay even if he is drafted the following season...and NOW that's a even closer comparison. The end result of the "Dirk trade" was one of the most mythical and misunderstood trades in sports history. They don't make that trade, the Mavs pick Dirk with their original pick and that's the end of the story. Dirk was never playing on the Bucks. You can massage it however you like. More than blame, there should be credit going to the Mavs and Nelson for their scouting. You want to blame them for missing out on Pierce, fine, but lots of teams passed on him and if you want to use hindsight when evaluating draft picks, ever team can be made to look dumb.

Likewise if you don't think he is. I honestly, and I know this will sound sarcastic, but I honestly want to know what you think makes him a good coach. I simply don't think he does the fundamental aspect of his job very well, which is putting players (and as a result the team) in the best position to succeed. Ok, something has to give. The Bucks haven't made ANY good moves since the new owners came in, right? And their coach...the guy who has brought in guys like KG to work with Giannis is a terrible coach. Then how exactly did we pick the rookie of the year in the 2nd round? How did a kid who wasn't supposed to be eligible for this years draft become an impact starter for a team that lost it's 2nd best player and started and contributed to the Bucks in the playoffs this year? I thought Kidd was an awful hire at the time. But I think he's done a good job...or at the very least the young core has improved with him as coach. I don't buy the "he doesn't put guys in position to succeed," as that's pretty much the fans canned answer. I'd also like to point out every fanbase complains about every coach. Bulls fans hated Tibs, Cards fans bashed LaRussa(especially hitting the pitcher 8th, but other times). And even in New England when they went through a little lull there was a large contingent of the fanbase that complained. Plus, this is a guy who put Plumelee in a position to actually look good for a few weeks. That right there ought to put him next to Phil and Red in the NBA coaching pantheon. Seriously though, moving Monroe to the bench, moving Maker into the starting lineup, how he brought back Middleton slowly, how he turned over the starting job to Brogdon...these are further down on my list than helping the young guys develop, but still areas in which I think he did good.

But we're talking about these owners. They had literally nothing to do with getting Giannis that's why they got so lucky for him to fall in their lap. And i don't think even the biggest optimists thought that he'd be starting an ASG at age 22 or that he had "best player in the world" potential. They came in the offseason when we'd already secured the #2 pick/Jabari. Pretty much every offseason since has been, well, not good. Then they weren't lucky. They bought him. Sounds like a good business deal. I'm not trying to defend the owners (the GM search was embarrassing). I just think its silly to say they were lucky. Re: I don't recall the talk about Dallas drafting Dirk if Milwaukee didn't trade for him. But I do remember a lot of applause for the Bucks in making that trade. And both players they traded away were better than Traylor. Anyway, my point was that our talent evaluation bad in the day was terrible. Hopefully, the ownership does get back on the same page. I think they started well, but this GM search was a head-scratcher. Nelson was the guy who found Dirk. He went over there, Dirk wasn't planning on playing in the NBA...at least anytime soon. He talked to the parents, he said he'd take care of him. I don't think any other teams were even considering Dirk and I don't think he was considering coming to play for any other team. That being said, we wanted to move up to get our guy. Like people have already said, he was never an option for the Bucks. My guess...at that time, if Dirk hadn't been drafted by us for Dallas in a pre-arranged trade, he'd have been taken in the 2nd round and maybe have come over years later if a team even held his rights that long. European markets weren't scouted nearly as well at that time. We got lucky this time around with Giannis though because another front office guy, Harris, desperately tried to convince Cuban to pick Giannis a few spots ahead of the Bucks, something Cuban confirmed. Instead he was more concerned with trying to sign FA's, that year Dwight was the target and he needed to keep his cap space for a max, so he traded back. So Dallas actually could have stolen a superstar from us whereas we never really had any chance at Dirk.

Likewise if you don't think he is.

I absolutely agree...we must deliver out harsh punishment for attempted humor...especially when it's noted in the title.

I think it's only reasonable to be worried, not just because of the time he's missed, but because he throws a pitch that's extremely hard on his forearm/elbow in his splitter.

I don't know what you would define at great stuff, but I think his stuff is plenty good enough to be a top 100 prospect even if his results weren't as great as they have been. I don't define great stuff. The scouts do. I'm only replying to why he isn't on the list. Here is how his stuff is rated on MLB.com: Fastball: 55 | Slider: 50 | Curveball: 50 | Changeup: 45 | Control: 50 | Overall: 45 Now, that was probably based off last year. And I've heard some reports that his curveball has improved greatly. So maybe his rating will improve too. Or his success comes from having 4 good pitches and high intelligence on how to use them. There are many HOF pitchers that fit that bill. But prospect lists tend to look down on them because a high percentage of those guys fail at the MLB level (or fail to be a high end starter). It looks like those were the current grades from before this year. But I guess it's a matter of when you're going off of. I don't see many scouts saying he doesn't have great stuff right now. In any event, given how few pitchers actually succeed in the big leagues...even with plus stuff(like Peralta) this just gives us another guy. Out of Hader, Ortiz, Woodruff, Burnes, Ponce..etc..etc..if we get a couple guys who can pitch on the front half of a rotation, we're good. Developing an ace is in large part luck. So maybe we'll get lucky.

They haven't done anything right on the basketball side, haven't made any difference making moves, since taking over the team. They all might meddle, but the Bucks owners clearly are not good at it at all. They hired what looks to be the perfect coach for this team...despite the fact that it looked like an awful move at the time. They drafted THEE freak..Thon Maker, the rookie of the year. They traded MCW for Snell. The money spent last year was stupid, but they were hardly the exception. Not an excuse, but the market was reset and it was just a lucky time for some players to be FA's. Someone mentioned trading for one of the Celts young guys(turned out to be Bradley)...but I can't imagine Boston would have been real interested in helping to hand us a key contributor just so they could clear cap space. Now you can obviously come back and list of dumb things they've done, but saying they've done nothing right is over the top. I do wish they would have just given Giannis the 5 year deal...but for the next 4 years I'm gonna just hope that he means what he keeps saying...1-He wants to be the best ever--something that is obvious from how he's developed his body to how he plays the game and, 2-He wants to play his entire career in Milwaukee. I think the one thing we do have going for us is his family moved here and he great up here. Oh, one more thing real quick, saying they were lucky to get Giannis at 15...I don't buy that just like I don't buy the Packers were lucky with Rodgers or the Cards were lucky with Pujos. When everyone else passes on a generational type talent and you draft him...you did something good. Not something that should be dismissed as luck. Just like I'll give the Mavs credit for picking Dirk(though we obviously technically did, he was only going to play because of Nelson). But otherwise, interesting read...I'm obviously late to the conversation, but I enjoyed reading the different opinions.

Better than what Sale brought? I don't think many scouts would agree with that. Kopech has the stuff to be the best pitcher in the game in the future. He just does some stupid things and struggles with his command...but he absolutely dominated the AFL. Add that to the top prospect in all of baseball, middle of the order bat at a premium position and I don't think we have the quality to match that. Not that I think we need to because I think Sale is a better pitcher.

Yeah, I was a little surprised. I knew he was young, but you look at the roster and unless I'm mistaken, he was the 2nd youngest behind only Thon Maker. I wouldn't hold my breath either, but just because so many of our young guys have come in and developed right away doesn't mean it won't take 3 or 4 years for a guy like Vaughn to develop.

I agree, but there is a need for some bullpen help, and Aguilar is the type of asset who could be flipped for said help. Cooper looks like he will be able to post a similar OPS, will be under control for open more year, so why not flip Aguilar? If Suter is past the 50 IP mark, Cooper is probably my #1 vote as things stand. Look at the type of prospects teams are giving up for BP help? We got a package last year for Will Smith including a top..what..60 pitching prospect who had just pitched in the futures game as well as a catcher who was the 49th ranked prospect before he was brought up to early and lost his prospect status. For Thornburg, a guy who did have nice stretches in which he dominated, but also was injured and had some big questions marks we got Shaw, and then a good middle IF prospect and a younger power arm that was a big of a fliar. Though with that deal being in the off-season it's not even really comparable because the need isn't nearly as high. My point is from watching Aguilar, I think he is a much better player than any return we get might reflect based on the small sample size. And I think it's a lot to ask for Cooper to step in and provide anywhere near the same type of production as Aguilar.

I don't know what you would define at great stuff, but I think his stuff is plenty good enough to be a top 100 prospect even if his results weren't as great as they have been. From BA http://www.baseballamerica.com/draft/draft-prospect-breakdown-corbin-burnes/ I think he was left on the lists simply because he wasn't drafted higher. Not that it really matters as you look back on these lists in 3 or 4 years and out of the top 20 there are a lot of hits, but as you get past that...it's almost like the draft. Just littered with guys who have never made an impact....so if he's 50th or 150....obviously it's of little consequence big picture.

I'd be shocked if he ever made it back up with us. Otherwise Scahill is the obvious answer It's a shame. The guy has the ability to be a really good big league pitcher. He's the type of guy who could really use a change of scenery...that hard sinker, that slider...when he attacks guys, he's a guy who could be a #2/3 or a back of the BP reliever. But he's not attacking, he's nibbling(or at least he was when he was up here...I'm sure in Colorado Springs his sinker sinks even less and that slider has less bite and things are only getting worse.

Haha seriously though. On another note that Fielder/Kinsler trade was terrible. That looked terrible for Texas immediately and that is exactly how it ended up. Saying Fielder played so many games the 5 previous years is picking stats to fit your argument. The guy was fat and had a body destined for failure at 30. Texas lucked out that he got so hurt he couldn't play so insured saved them. I thought it was a steal for Texas at first. They got a younger, more productive player. His 2015 was a terrific year in a dead ball era. The Rangers may have had concerns about his weight (being the heaviest MLB player ever under 6'), but they had no way of knowing his spine would give out . Most would have expected strong seasons until age 35, but injuries derailed his career Absolutely agree with everything you said and add in the things I mentioned, ie, Kinsler looked like he was declining, was older, Texas was looking to compete and putting a huge LH'ed bat at that time looked like it could have turned them into a dominant lineup AND they could have DH'ed Prince moving forward and also looked like they were gonna replace Kinsler with an better player at 2nd(Profar was considered a can't miss prospect and Odor, who ended up playing that year looked like a young stud as well). So they likely would have had to eat some of Kinsler's contract in order to trade him at that point...now it looks like a steal. And as far as Prince having a body "destined to fail by 30," that was the knock on Prince since he was 18. He had a body that was destined for injury his whole career. The reason his games played the previous 5 years(actually his entire career) is relevant is because all the assumptions made about Prince ended up being completely and utterly false. He proved them all wrong. He had a very unfortunate fluke injury. That's it. And if you have a chance to finally win a WS after losing a couple straight by adding one of the top LH'ed power bats in the game in a LH'ed hitters paradise like Texas....that seems like a good deal. Using hingsight can make almost every trade look stupid and nearly every move look bad for that matter. At the time, both teams got rid of a contract they wanted to or needed to and one team thought they would be substantially better....

I gotta say, as condescending as your comment was, "watching video" of a player does not equate to watching a roughly 90 seconds of pre-game IF practice...especially when one of them is him in HS when he wasn't even a prospect. I've had to watch video on players. Calling this watching video is akin to watching the Packers do pre-game blocking drills....or actually watching the guy the Packers drafted do pre-game shadow blocking drills from when he was a 2 star recruit in High School. And all of that aside, watching video is far less useful in baseball than almost any other sport when you need to actually watch a player live. Just searching for a player on youtube is about as far from definitive as you can get. I could piece together a youtube video from Braun's rookie year that would make you think he's Manny Machado. That aside, I really don't know what exactly what you gain from watching THIS video? And again, I don't believe they should even bother trying him at SS or 3rd as I don't see the gain at this point. But that's because he's played 2nd and was on the fence and could have gone either way and had TJ surgery. Not because I have access to some grainy youtube video.

I don't think anyone really has any idea what he can do defensively right now. He was the DH all year, including for Team USA to protect his arm in his draft year. His arm is apparently healed and he's a good athlete. Honestly though, my guess is if the Brewers are playing him at SS or 3rd base in the near future, things aren't going that well for him and they're trying to improve his value by seeing if he can handle those positions. If his arm is healthy...and it sounds like it is, and if he's as good of a hitter as the scouts all said, he should sail through the system. Playing him anywhere other than 2nd/LF would only slow down that progress. As to whether he could...again, nobody has seen him throw and really knows. A lot of people have opinions, but most of those are based on other opinions of people who haven't watched him play defensively in a while...and probably didn't even watch him play much then as he wasn't much of a prospect coming out of HS. So flat out dismissing the idea is just guessing(as I am). But really, the best question would be why? If he can be a elite hitter for the Brewers at 2nd base....all the better. No reason to make a blue chip prospect move. It's about adding options. If Hiura can play 3B, that means you can replace Shaw (directly) or Thames (indirectly). If Hiura moves up as fast as folks here expect, why not? If Hiura plays some shortstop, then the Crew has insurance in the case that Arcia's hot streak is just a flash, and he reverts to the sub-.700 OPS hitter he was before June. If Hiura is as good a hitter as people here think he is, I bet he could be plugged in just about anywhere on the field. I think too big a deal is being made about defense sometimes. If Hiura posts Wade Boggs-like numbers, stick him at third, short, or even right. Just get his bat in the lineup. Or just the position that he already is at least somewhat used to and won't cause him extra time to develop at. Your idea is fine in theory...have guys play multiple positions, but you don't need to do that if a guy really has a bat like Wade Boggs. Or whoever. Then they play the position they're the best at and you move someone else. Plus most guys who come up or are drafted as shortstops don't end up sticking at shortstop in the first place. Again, I'm not saying he definitively can't...I'm just saying why bother? Even if Arcia isn't going to be this good of a hitter, I really can't envision where we gain by having Hirura play short over him given the defensive drop off. And that's based on the very unlikely scenario that he's even capable of making those throws(not even factoring in the range). I'll be the first one to say let someone fail before moving them....like Coulter or Lara or anyone. But you're suggesting he play a position he hasn't played at a time when he just avoided Tommy John surgery and one that puts more stress on your arm than any position other than pitcher or catcher. So..again, if that happens, if they try him at SS or 3rd...my bet is that he'll be in his 2nd or 3rd time around at AAA and he'll have struggled in his call up's to that point and the Brewers are trying to salvage his career as a utility player. Otherwise it just doesn't make sense to force that onto him. He could potentially be our 2nd basemen by 2019. If they play around with him that won't happen. And Shaw and Arcia will still be around..as will Thames and Aguilar. Not that you develop a top 10 picked based on those factors anyway.

Right, Bosio had the same type of delivery. SI did a pretty in depth article on his struggles/resurgence last year. While not on the same scale it sounds like what the Brewers used to try to do. Draft a pitcher and try to change his delivery. Speaking of the O's young pitching from 8 years ago or so, has Rick Peterson ever actually done anything to help anyone? That's almost an impossible answer, it just seems like he's not really high sought after for such a renowned pitching guru. I know he was our pitching coach when Axford had his little resurgence, but the only person I hear signing his praises for the most part are him.

Yeah, his slider/cutter pitch has been a big part of the reason he's excelled in Chicago, but I'm sure it's a bit more involved than that. I would understand given his fastball and curve not wanting a pitcher with his stuff to throw a pitch that puts that much stress on his arm, but the O's have screwed up a lot of pitchers for a lot of different reasons. I can't imagine what Chris Sale would look like had he gone to Baltimore 5-6 years ago instead of being in Chicago and now Boston. They woulda screwed with his mechanics until he had an ERA north of 7 and would probably be a reliever by now.

I hope he does exactly that. I don't see it. They have strength in numbers at some positions in their system and a guy like Happ could be flipped next year if they fall out of contention. I think he'll pursue any avenue short of the multi-prospect deal that landed Sabathia for just 3 months.. Heck Anderson is a direct result of the Grienke deal. I would be all for that...definitely moreso the Grinke type trade than the Sabathia, but which pitcher is that? I just don't see that guy on the market. That's sure not Sonny Gray or Quitana. That's MAYBE Archer from TB but not only are they unlikely to trade him, that would take a lot. I am really starting to believe that the Cubs just might not get it going and the Brewers will keep playing well, but there is still such a huge gap between the Nats, Dodgers and the rest of the NL that it'd take a true ace(and probably a really good, durable reliever) for the Brewers to stand a chance...should they get to a playoff series.

Yeah, I love the guy...when he's pitching. But you can pretty much count on him missing about 10-15 starts a year. Quintana is the guy I'd target as well....but I think the White Sox are gonna want 2016 value for him. And why shouldn't they? You can pretty much pencil him in for 32 starts and 200 innings a year.

He wouldn't be if I was running the Mets. The Mets are having a bad season, but with the starting pitching they have, and with what the Nats are likely to be losing in the next couple years I can't fathom why they'd want to part with what could become the best rotation in baseball..or at least one of them. Especially while they're cheap and controllable for a while. And I don't even know if the Brewers have the prospects to get this done. They certainly have the depth, but they don't have that top 5 can't miss type prospect that I would expect a team to require in a deal like this. I would think they would want a guy like Arcia plus a whole lot more back if they're gonna trade away a guy like Jacob deGrom. Fun to think about though. deGrom/Nelson/Anderson/Guerra.

Arrieta had really bottomed out a lot more than Bundy has for the O's. Kinda the difference between how Nelson had pitched and how Peralta has pitched... Bundy at this point is just a young pitcher with TOR type stuff who's just not pitching great. He's still pitching well enough for young pitcher. He would be a great guy to target, but he'd cost a lot. Gausman would be a great target, but again, even with his struggles, he hasn't sunk anywhere near the depths that Arietta had before the O's gave up on him. They looked like they were gonna have an elite staff about 4-5 years ago with a lot of really highly regarded young arms. Too bad it didn't really pan out for most of them in Baltimore.

I don't think anyone really has any idea what he can do defensively right now. He was the DH all year, including for Team USA to protect his arm in his draft year. His arm is apparently healed and he's a good athlete. Honestly though, my guess is if the Brewers are playing him at SS or 3rd base in the near future, things aren't going that well for him and they're trying to improve his value by seeing if he can handle those positions. If his arm is healthy...and it sounds like it is, and if he's as good of a hitter as the scouts all said, he should sail through the system. Playing him anywhere other than 2nd/LF would only slow down that progress. As to whether he could...again, nobody has seen him throw and really knows. A lot of people have opinions, but most of those are based on other opinions of people who haven't watched him play defensively in a while...and probably didn't even watch him play much then as he wasn't much of a prospect coming out of HS. So flat out dismissing the idea is just guessing(as I am). But really, the best question would be why? If he can be a elite hitter for the Brewers at 2nd base....all the better. No reason to make a blue chip prospect move.

I can. It really wasn't an unevan trade at the time. When Prince was traded to Texas he had missed 1 game in the previous 5 seasons and was coming off a two years run in Detriot in which he slashed 295/.387/.491 and an OPS+ of 136 while playing in every single game. He was also two years younger. Kinsler was two years older than Fielder and posted a slash line of .256/.340/.449 OPS+ of 107. Not exactly a shock that Fielder was the better hitter, but it also looked like Kinsler was on the decline. Meanwhile the Rangers were absolutely loaded with middle infielders at the time. They had an all star at SS in Andrus and it looked like Profar might force him to move, not to mention they had Odor and Sardinas who were both highly touted middle IF prospects(Profar would get hurt and miss most of the year while Odor would start in 2014 and struggle). Texas at the time was a contender, they looked like they had a deep pitching staff and it looked like plugging Fielder into the lineup would be the perfect fit. Plus Detroit sent a sizeable chunk of cash to Texas along with Fielder(30 million). Bottom line, Texas was on the verge of a WS, they swapped out Kinsler at 15 per and Berkman 10 million and actually cut their payroll taking back 18 million for Prince and the minimum for Profar. There was little reason to think that Kinsler would thrive in Detriot while the games top prospect(and a guy who name was mentioned among guys like Trout, Harper and Machado) would end up missing two full seasons with injuries and that Prince would get hurt, come back and put up all star numbers again before finally suffering a career ending injury. Not to mention, at the time they traded Kinsler, there weren't a lot of teams that wanted him. This was a trade that made a lot of sense at the time(also for the Tigers who were playing Cabrera at 3rd and needed to sign him and try to sign Scherzer in the next few years) and the Rangers who needed a big bat and tried to sign Fielder in free agency...and again believed actually had an upgrade in the minors...as did many others.