MNBrew

I wouldn't want Dunn even if it were the White Sox paying him. I think Gamel needs to be playing 1B unless Prince re-signs. There are multiple other positions that should be the priority for offseason acquisitions, not 1B, please! The Twins were notorious several years ago for overvaluing their prospects but also holding onto all of them, never clearing a logjam, until some guys either "rotted on the pine" or proved they didn't have the talent to continue their MiLB success in the bigs. Then it was too late and they never got anything in return when there was value to be had by making moves earlier. Terry Ryan did lots of things right, but there were a few blunders in this regard over the years. . . . My point is that I don't want to see this to happen w/ Gamel -- or at least not on account of trading for Adam Dunn (or Todd Dunn, either -- geez, did that star prospect flame out fast!).

People have been saying this since he got to Milwaukee, but he pitched very, very well in 2010 AFTER his lousy May & first part of June (remember that his 12-run outing was taking one for the team b/c the bullpen was so shot) AND his 2011 was pretty darn solid, too. I'm not saying there's no way he regresses, but I believe it's hardly a given. I'd be less surprised if they traded Narveson, who's younger, cheaper, and not quite as good. That way spots 1-4 in the rotation are hugely experienced/successful starters and the #5 spot can be filled by Fiers/Peralta/Estrada -- in other words, someone younger & cheaper than Narveson.

If Prince is gone but Pujols hasn't signed, I'd make a serious play for him (and trade Hart if we actually got him). I've been wondering if Michael Young isn't a fair-game sort of potential acquisition. The guy rakes, plain & simple. Neither of those options get Gamel into the lineup unless Hart's also gone. But they're both top-notch hitters.

Another way of making Nate's point: Where Melvin could make upgrade moves, he did, including many "biggies" in terms of talent acquired (Marcum, Greinke, Saito, Morgan, K-Rod). And he didn't go about bashing the players on hand before he did it. He just moved proactively & decisively toward the upgrade. Therefore, I have to believe that if there'd been a realistic & affordable all-around upgrade over Betancourt, Melvin certainly would've made the move unless the price was beyond anything remotely reasonable. The lack of any such moves proves that no sufficient upgrades were available, or at least not at any price worth paying.

Having watched Cuddyer tons since his Twins career began, I think he'd be an upgrade over Hart. Different skill set, still with some faults (of course), but quite worth that kind of investment. If Hart were the same Hart of 4-5 years ago, I wouldn't say so. But since then, Hart's gone from a doubles-hitting machine w/ good HR power and excellent speed to a better OBP but lesser defense, lesser speed, less run production (in that his RBI totals in the 5-hole were rather poor when he got moved to the leadoff spot), & more Ks. The OBP's an improvement but the hot streaks seem to be less meaningful (in terms of "carrying the team") and the dropoff in speed kills him both on the bases & in the field, ultimately making him less of an overall threat. I'm not totally disenchanted with Hart -- b/c I honestly do feel he fits several needs on the team, just not as thoroughly or as broadly as he once did -- but I'd still gladly take Cuddyer.

Well now thats all well & good, however after having zero statistical evidence in front of me regarding the Brewers post-season defense and instead relying completely on my own eyes as an amateur observer, it still seems obvious that Melvin underestimated the importance of defense in 2011, which makes his comments completely absurd Yuni made a whole bunch of poor plays and also many good ones. Personally, I'm not suggesting he's a sound or solid defensive player. Melvin did make a rather telling remark re: the value of offense vs. defense and the fact that there's usually a balance between the two that must be struck, although where that balance lies can be a matter of choice for an organization's decision makers. For the folks who place an extremely high value on defense (certainly a strong trend in recent years on this board and in certain facets of the baseball-following public), it would seem Melvin underestimated the importance of defense. That perspective, however, and remarks like calling his comments absurd, is simply a biased way of saying that Melvin should've valued/favored defense to the same extent as the folks here who value it very highly.

Melvin's remarks remind me of why I'm always so glad my favorite team is the Brewers and not the NY/BOS/CHI teams -- both for the teams and the media coverage. I think most folks will realize Melvin's job is to see the picture, point out the good things about the 96-win team & its year, and answer the questions fairly without tipping his hand. All in all, it represents him & the organization with a good bit of class. The NY/BOS/CHI media are so used to being ruthless in terms of trashing players, leading questions, & reading into responses, none of which truly do the team, the players, or the fans justice. Yes, that approach does yield some vindicating or cathartic remarks. But that's short-term, emotion-laden stuff and not the grounds for good organizational processes. For example, if Melvin sat there and trashed Casey McGehee up one side and down the other -- which McGehee's performance much of the year could've substantiated -- how in the world would Melvin expect to get any kind of quality return for a guy who's a pretty solid player should he decide to try to trade him this winter? He'd be shooting himself & the team's best interests in the foot.

Wow, not that is a real shocking statement considering the source. And I thought Melvin considered defense a huge importance. Defensive measurements, however they've advanced over the years, are still by far the hardest things to quantify and involve more conjecture than offensive or pitching stats. Thus, there's more room for "eyeball" evidence, of which Melvin and the whole organization has plenty. So while on this board a statement like Melvin's is ripe for ridicule in the eyes of many, to those of us with less of a stats-heavy bias, it makes some decent sense and is hardly heretical to our views of common sense. Plus, Melvin's not gonna come out and bash the heck out of a player in a news conference like that. He's got too much class to do that.

Putting 2 & 2 together... Given the organization's preference for hard-throwers, if Fiers ends up in the rotation, I'd think he's more likely to take the spot of someone who doesn't throw as hard. In other words, Greinke or Yo are far less likely to be traded than any of the other 3 guys.

I like this plan. It is the one I would go with. I'm also in agreement big-time w/ Louis Ely's summary (since he basically said the same things I said in the post prior to his -- but who doesn't like affirmation?). In regards to McGehee, I'd be inclined to believe his '09 & '10 were a fluke if it'd only been one year, not two. But it was two. Most "one-hit wonders" fizzle in the 2nd year, in essence never really getting out of the sophomore slump. Improvement in the 2nd year would seem to bode well. Again, going all the way back to ST, the guy has been "off" this year since Day One. Here's hoping he regains that form -- and it's a huge plus for the Brewers if he does. And yes, McGehee's 29, so he's not truly young, but he's sure as heck not old.

I still believe 1B & 3B are covered by a combination of McGehee, Green, & Gamel in 2012. The wild-card factor there is if Hart moves to 1B, in which case Gamel may be given a shot at RF. I cannot believe at this point that Casey's previous 2 years were a fluke. He's young, relatively cheap, and proven-productive, which are the exact traits we'd be looking for in his replacement. At the very least, I think he's brought to ST to compete for the 3B job. . . . And I think he's worth keeping around should Green & Gamel earn the starting corner IF spots b/c if either falters, he's got a track record of productivity that's exactly what you want to be able to promote from your bench to your lineup. My take on the 2012 25-man roster: Starting OF: Braun, Morgan/Gomez, Hart Starting IF: Weeks, mystery SS (tba), 2 of McGehee/Green/Gamel Starting C: Lucroy Reserve OF: Morgan/Gomez, Schafer/Gindl/veteran signee TBA Reserve IF: Hairston + 1 of McGehee/Green/Gamel Reserve C: Kottaras Rotation: Same as 2011 Bullpen: Axford, Saito, Hawkins, Estrada, Loe, Dillard, De La Cruz Those last 2 spots + possibly Loe's could also be filled by or at least competed for by McClendon, Braddock, Stetter, Parra, & DiFelice, plus also Fiers & Peralta.

Which is basically like saying "Yeah, they signed Albert Pujols, but they were the same team otherwise".Huh? Obviously the stud starters made a difference, but my original point was that while that's a big difference, there was more to our being a better team than just that. Macha on many levels was a worse manager, or at least a worse manager for the Brewers than Roenicke. "Quality of life" matters significantly. I'm not suggesting any extent to which it translated onto the field. But it still matters. Macha's clubhouse had a very negative atmosphere, at least as far as how his players felt about life under him. Roenicke understands how to deal with people a ton better. . . . "Quality of life" is something all of us in real life also value in many ways, routinely paying more for it in lots of ways. Roenicke gets that element and it shows because of how he relates to and treats his players. As a result, he has the respect of his players. He was still a rookie manager and made certain mistakes due to that lesser experience as the head guy, but he's clearly positioned himself to earn a much longer "shelf life" than Macha and that will grow even larger if in the future he's proven that he's learned from those mistakes.

With RISP: .237 average, .614 OPS, with men on .216 avg, .567 OPS. He did something, he pooped the bed with his opportunities. To compare: McGehee with RISP: .244/.738, with men on, .226/.651. I didn't mean that Yuni did well. But we've certainly endured plenty of guys who've done worse. Heck, lousy BA w/ RISP was practically a team-wide epidemic at times over the previous 5 years. p.s. Cool avatar, Baldkin.

Two points:1) Averaging Yuni's ranking out of 31 SS's for those 4 categories, he's 22nd out of 31. That puts him at about the 30th percentile. 2) RBIs do reflect opportunities, but you still have to do something in those opportunities, which Yuni did -- nothing great, but still something.

He was quite close to that in 2010 w/ KC (.259/.288/.405) and only a bit lower in 2011 w/ the Brewers (.252/.271/.381). I have serious doubts about whether I'd want Yuni back in 2012, but I think Briggs' point about how he played in the 2nd half has some merit. For that matter, I would agree that there was serious predisposing about him right away, some of which was realistic but much of which assuming the absolute worst, which he wasn't. To whomever noted Yuni was above average this year but questioned whether he could be for 2 consecutive years (that's a positive WAR, right?), he already has: 2010 & 2011.

They won 77 games with the 2nd highest ERA in the league, and 88 ERA+. They had 27 starts from the poo poo platter of Jeff Suppan, Manna Parra and Doug Davis. Not to mention 31 starts from Dave Bush. Right. Two stud starters replaced all the starts of Suppan/Parra/Davis/Bush. Gallardo, Wolf, & Narveson were all in the 2010 rotation. That was my point.

Isn't Upton an All-Star caliber player? He sure isn't just overpriced filler or roster dung -- the sort often seen traded in bad-contract-for-bad-contract moves. Gomez for Upton isn't a remotely fair trade for Tampa.

Given this heartbreaking loss, I don't think any current Brewer will go into this offseason with a great taste in their mouths. No one except maybe Axford performed all the way to the bitter end in a way that doesn't leave many doors open for potential regrets. In other words, no one has any even remote justification for a complacent attitude this offseason. Granted, no one's saying they will. But here is where I'm going with that idea: McGehee was the team MVP in '10. Solid BA, great HR & RBI numbers, better defense (I believe) than most with a heavy stats bias say he had. Then what happened? Well, we don't actually know. However, we do know that Casey REALLY wasn't on track at all in ST and he basically spent almost the whole year still trying to rediscover his good groove. The harder he tried, often the worse he got. . . . . My point is this: McGehee is one of a host of Brewers who should have plenty of motivation to come back & prove their critics wrong in '12, whether just in regards to their postseason struggles or a sub-standard full '11 season. . . . How well they do at that will have a very large bearing on where this team sits in 2012.

Again, it really had nothing to do with him. It had to do with the talent he had and specifically, how great the pitching was in the 2nd half. And I don't think most people are blaming the entire series loss on starting Kotsay. But it was a major factor in the game 3 loss, which ultimately, I think was the turning point in the series.I agree that Game 3 might've had a different outcome without Kotsay in CF, but the outcome may well have been the same even if Kotsay had been in RF. After how crisply played Game 4 was, I can't agree that Game 3 was the turning point in the series. After Game 4, the series was back to even & the Brewers were both feeling good and just 1 win in the next 2 games would've put the Brewers at home for Game 7 -- home field advantage just when you need it most. Instead, the absolute all-around breakdown that was Game 5 was the turning point. It wasn't just that they lost, but how amazingly & completely they did so in every facet of the game. I also wholeheartedly agree with TheCrew's take on the big picture re: Roenicke. . . . And I'll readily contend that Macha had almost all the same talent, just short a couple stud starters, but his distant style & lack of good people skills did a goodly amount to undermine many of the other positive aspects & potential of the Brewers' 2010 season.

Pujols is regarded as a strong defensive 1B. I'd gladly overpay to get him at 1B if Prince goes elsewhere. That would help.

I agree w/ your 1st point. But you really think Gamel might get a shot at LF? I beg to differ. There's no way the Brewers move Braun out of LF, and Gamel's only played a very small bit of RF, never LF. Anyway.... - I think most if not all the pitching staff (K-Rod obviously excluded) could return. - I think they'd do all they could to improve the defense at SS w/o totally killing the offense at SS. Failure to do that meaningfully might mean the return of Yuni, which would be rather concerning. - Counsell's likely gone, & I'd love to see Hairston back in that super-utility role. - McGehee's likely too valuable just to dismiss, plus he has little trade value, so I really want both him & Green on the team w/ both having an equal shot to start at 3B. The full-year presence of each on the bench makes this a stronger team than with Wilson & Counsell as the IF reserves. - I like Hart's overally impact on the offense but I still think him at 1B & Gamel in RF may make as much or more sense than the reverse. - On a related note, after Braun & Hart, only 3 of Nyjer, Gomez, Schafer, Gindl, & Kotsay are on next year's roster. And I'd be a little concerned if Schafer loses out to Kotsay. - Of course, if Fielder goes elsewhere, it'd be a major coup (not to mention a serious pipe dream) to land Pujols at 1B.

Two consecutive tweets (one a re-tweet) by Haudricourt say most of the story: miklasz Bernie Miklasz by Haudricourt "STL bullpen in the 4 wins vs. Milwaukee: 20 IP, 6 hits, 3 ER, 4 BB, 15 Ks and an .094 batting average allowed. Nasty. Sick." Haudricourt Tom #Brewers manager Ron Roenicke on Cardinals' play in NLCS: "Did they do anything wrong during the series?" Roenicke didn't manage perfectly, but really, it's hard to think much of it would've mattered enough to make a difference....

Roenicke's not to blame. The decision to start Marcum looks bad, but what options did he have (regardless of who he used in Gm. 5)? Of the 6 Brewers used as starters in 2011, everyone not named Randy Wolf flat-out imploded in the NLCS no matter where they were used. Start Yo early? Cripes, he's as snake-bit against the Cardinals in his career as Marcum has been against, well, anyone over the past 7 starts. Talk about "pick your poison" -- sheesh! I hate that the Cardinals are on this kind of roll, but I wouldn't be at all surprised if they win it all. With their 23-9 finish, NLDS upset of the Phillies, and NLCS victory over the Brewers, LaRussa & his whole team are nothing short of ridiculously hot at the precisely right time. We were the better team against AZ but were still kinda lucky to pull that one out. We just weren't playing remotely close to well enough to have a chance at putting the Cardinals away. What a painful way to go!

I'm liking this season a whole lot in spite of great disappointment at the total team breakdown 4 of the past 5 games. The NLCS wasn't great and the patterns in the losses were all especially unsettling: all starters not named Randy Wolf imploded, the Brewers couldn't hit at all w/ RISP & esp. so w/ 2 outs, Weeks totally stunk all around, &, while it took a game or 2, the Cards figured out how to make sure Braun & Fielder absolutely did not beat them. You just can't play catch up this much every game & expect consistently good results . . . Gotta hand it to the Cardinals & LaRussa, though it kills me to do so. This is why I really wanted Atlanta to win the Wild Card. If only Philly had laid down against them a couple times in their last series, it's a whole different postseason for everyone. This was an outstanding season, and I don't disagree with ANY moves Melvin made in putting this team together (no, I'm not blind). Looking ahead, I hope... - against hope that Prince returns . . . and if he doesn't, I'd make a huge run at Pujols (which would allow the Brewers to more easily try to trade Hart, putting Gamel in RF), - Hairston returns & that the rotation returns intact (the latter being by far the biggest piece of the equation since it was the biggest reason for our 2011 success in the first place) - if McGehee's here in ST that it's still a 100% open competition w/ Green for 3B. We all have moves or non-moves we want to see. A few moves would seem to be a given, but which ones? The biggest key isn't just making moves, but making the right moves. Thanks for a great 2011. Go Brewers!

I do think the athleticism factors favor Gamel in RF & Hart at 1B. But I'm 90% sure we then have a whole season of complaining about how lousy a defensive OF Gamel is and blah, blah, blah.... ...which I'd settle for if, as DHonks noted, Hart would still lose the extra 20 pounds of bulk he's put on b/c his offensive game has NOT improved since he's done so, but his defense & especially his speed have definitely worsened.