RockCoCougars

I just don't see how anyone can advocate trading both Hart and Fielder. How brutal would this lineup be without them? With the pitcher, there are already three black holes in the lineup at short and center field. Maybe I'm missing something, but outside of maybe Gamel, who I fear has been irreparably damaged by Macha, what young bats are ready to step in for them? I'm not sure that signing an older Adam 'modern day Dave Kingman' Dunn to a big money deal on the open market is the answer either like many people here advocate. Guys like him have a pretty short shelf life. What else do you do, just go out and fill holes by signing 'guys' like the 1993-2002 Brewers did? That never worked very well either. Ideally, I think you keep two of three- Weeks, Hart and Fielder. I think everyone would pretty much agree that Fielder is gone, so that means Hart and Weeks should be extended if possible in my opinion. I think a Fielder for Garza or Cain deal either now or in the off-season would be ideal. I'm not interested in trading for single A pitching at this point.

Dumping Hart for low minor leaguers at this point is sheer stupidity. It would only make sense if A)This was the 2001 Brewers with no hope at competing in the next 3 years and the owner wants to slash salary or B)Hart is a rent a player with free agency impending at the end of the season. Everyone here talks about 'selling high', but moving Hart for these two guys is not selling high. I'd put the odds at less than 50% that either of them ever makes a significant impact in the majors, let alone an all-star team. I think a lot of people are forgetting that this is not the NFL or NBA where a newly drafted player can step in and make an almost immediate impact. Not the case here, these guys are at least 2-3 years away- if they ever make it. Going further, why do you think the Rays want to move Davis so badly? He has been pretty pedestrian this year, with a fairly low K rate and high WHIP. He went the entire month of June without a win (I don't want to hear the 'AL East' stuff either, the starts were against Texas, Toronto, Atlanta, San Diego and Arizona). I don't want another team's scraps (e.g. their '3rd best prospect). If Hellickson is as advertised and ready, and the Rays truly have a 'surplus of pitching', I don't think that Garza is too much to ask for. If the Rays don't want to part with him, I suggest they pursue Jason Werth.

The more that I think about this deal, the madder I get. You trade an all-star for two low minors guys- nothing like building for 2013. Going further, have the Brewers ever had luck developing pitchers, even after they dominate the rookie or Single A level? I can think of maybe 10 decent pitchers that have come through the system in the past 30 years, probably about a 10% success rate. The rest of the highly touted prospects have been injured/ruined by the Brewers, disappearing never to be heard from again. I'd do Hart for Matt Garza, nothing more, nothing less. If the Rays don't like it, I'll take Hellickson then since they have a surplus of pitching. I'd also do Hart/Gomez for Upton/Davis/Moore. Otherwise, they can pound sand.

By the way, Katin/Edmonds would be brutal. Katin is almost as old as Hart, and even though he's been in Nashville for like 5 years, he frankly hasn't shown enough to even warrant being called a 'AAAA player'. He's been striking out almost once every 3 plate appearances this season.

I hope to god that this is a wishful thinking proposal cooked up by a Rays fan. If Melvin makes this trade, fire him immediately. You have a 22 year old who has already missed a year due to injury and has been playing in A ball this year and hit at a .189 clip in AA. You also have an A ball pitcher. Not to mention that Sweeney is a 3rd baseman. I guess that 3-4 of them isn't enough for the Brewers. Never mind, Melvin will probably throw Gamel in as well.

Frankly, who cares? They would be hurting themselves more than anything. Going further, I have a tough time believing that any of them with an all-star bonus in their contract would turn it down- If so, more power to them, they are a better man than I.

Just a pressure tactic, like the NFL used against Arizona with the Super Bowl. Let them boycott, the All Star game lost relevance to me about 20 years ago when the players stopped caring. Players have been cooking up fake injuries and the like for several years, this would be no different. Play the game, and if players don't want to show up, too bad- mostly for them.

The urgency comes from the fact that their trade value is declining, since each day/week/month that passes is less time that the acquiring team will have them. Therefore it would stand to reason that they'll give up less to get these players if they control them for less time. It's interesting that you mention needing to "settle" because if the team waits until the trade deadline next year to move Fielder, setting is exactly what they'll have to do. They'll have painted themselves into a corner, because there is no way Fielder is going to sign an extension. They will only be able to offer a half-season of Fielder, rather than a full year-and-a-half. And other clubs will know we have to move him, so we will have absolutely no leverage. And for what? To cling to the hope that the team is not mathematically eliminated yet this year? Hart and Weeks are a similar case, but at least with them there is a chance they could be re-signed. Letting Fielder walk for picks, or getting a poor return due to holding on to him too long would be devastating to the future of the franchise. It sucks, but part of remaining consistently competitive in a small market means flipping some of the best players your system produces before they become free agents and have the opportunity to walk away leaving you with nothing but memories -- which is exactly what Prince Fielder will do if we let him. I don't agree that their trade values are declining. There is this idea like the whole season by Hart has been a mirage, and that he's going to go Billy Hall or J.J. Hardy on us. Obviously, the Brewers have had bad luck with flame outs in the past, but something is telling me that Hart has actually figured it out. As for Fielder with the subpar season that he's having, I can't imagine his trade value being lower at this point.

Agreed. However I don't see any indication that Garza, Minor or Davis would be available. I'd definitely be on board for Minor or Garza (I'd have to think about Davis). The Giants weren't even willing to part with Sanchez, even with the emergence of Bumgarner. That tells me that teams in contention are going to be pretty unwilling to move an arm that has #2 potential, even if they are in AAA. I think accepting a package of second rate prospects or some high upside A or AA pitchers does constitute packing it in for 2011. No pitcher in the low minors will be ready for then, and just consider where this team would be this season without Hart's bat. As I said, there is no urgent need to move these guys, and no need to dump their salaries. Therefore, I don't understand the rush to move them for the sake of moving them. If a team wants a bat and makes an offer that blows Melvin away, by all means pull the trigger, but there is no need to settle.

I'm not so sure why everyone wants to cash in 2010 at this point. 8.5 games is a big deficit, but it's not insurmountable. To put things into perspective, the Brewers picked up 3 games over the weekend. Going further, I won't be a bit surprised if the Reds play sub .500 baseball for the rest of the season and the Cardinals have Soup in the rotation, enough said. With 73 games left, the Crew would have to probably go at least 47-26 to have a shot. Is that probable? No. But it's possible. Braun is starting to heat up, and if Prince does as well, these guys could go on a tear. Like I said, I'll wait out the next 2 and a half weeks before I think about making a move. I just don't see how Hart or Fielder would have much higher value at this point than they would in the off season, or next years trade deadline for that matter. This has been demonstrated by the negotiations with the Giants, they don't want to trade anyone who could have value in the MLB for an all-star starter. This isn't the 2001 Brewers, and there isn't as big as dearth of talent that many here feel. Therefore, I feel no need to stockpile 'prospects' that other teams deem acceptable from A and AA. I'm not willing to stockpile talent for 2013. Finally, this isn't the NFL or NBA where veterans are traded for draft picks (many of whom can step in and have immediate impact, which a AA pitcher would not) due to camp ramifications or whatever. If Fielder and Hart are traded, where will that money be used, to sign Ted Lilly or something? Even if it was used to sign Cliff Lee, would you trade Hart and Fielder for Lee? I wouldn't.

At this point, I don't do anything for two weeks. In my opinion, the haul for Hart will only go up during that time period. Let a few more teams enter the fray.

They "quantify things like this" with the same statistics that oddsmakers use in Vegas. You say you'd make that bet, but it's one thing to be willing to throw $5 on that bet, and another to bet your house on it. Exactly. It would be horrible to wager anything significant on 140-to-1 odds. ($5 in a bar? Sure, I do that.) The sites I referenced explain their methodology pretty clearly. I'm not saying that I completely buy it, but I'm reluctant to argue with a consensus of objective observers who conclude that the team has less than a 1% chance of making the playoffs. I'd be willing to bet that no where in Vegas (if I could find future odds) could I get anything remotely close to 140:1 future odds on the Brewers to win the central division in 2010. You'd find maybe 50 to 1 if you were lucky, futures bets are pretty much sucker bets anyway, but I digress. If I could get 1,000 to 1, like the one website suggests, I would lay down 100 bucks in a heartbeat.

So best case, the odds are about 140 to 1 according to these sites. I'd make that bet. I'm not saying they have a very good chance at all, but they have to be better than that (probably closer to 50 to 1 or something). I've never been able to figure out how these sites are able to quantify things like this.

I'll give you that the chances are not great, but there is still a small chance. Going further, all of the guys mentioned in rumors (Hart, Weeks or Fielder) are under team control next year, so it's not a move them or lose them scenario. There is no urgency whatsoever to move them. I think it's asinine to move any of them now for low level prospects because that can be done next year. If someone wants to blow the Brewers away with some guys that contribute next year, I'm willing to listen- otherwise, I'm not willing to begin another rebuilding process, at least not until after next year.

I know a lot of you are going to hate me saying this, but they sit only 8.5 games back now. With 73 games left, including 12 against the team you are chasing, they aren't quite dead yet. Just when I think they are done, they keep pulling me back in. Cincy is starting to scuffle a little bit. I think you have to wait until at least the next road trip is over (of which 4 are in Pittsburgh). There is also conveniently a 3 game stretch against the Reds at home right before the deadline.

The problem in trading Fielder or Hart now (I'm not even considering trading Weeks because it would be asinine) is that the only teams that want them are in contention. Teams in contention are not going to give up any major league pitching. That's why any deals need to be made in the off season.

Good.. Now maybe he can be traded for a AA pitcher instead of a A pitcher.

I've always maintained that 2 of 3 of Fielder, Weeks and Hart need to be extended. In my opinion, it makes the most sense to extend Weeks and Hart. I would guess both of those guys could be signed for equal to or less than what it would cost for Fiedler. Both seem to want to play here, and I think both would be amenable to reupping. I have no desire to trade core guys like this for prospects, since I do not want to endure another 10-15 year rebuilding process. This franchise has enough trouble developing talent from within, and their track record in the acquistion of 'prospects' that other teams determine as expendable is spotty at best.

I wouldn't mind seeing Weeks tried in center field though if for nothing else to open up a starting spot for Gamel. He should be a good enough athlete to pull it off. Obviously I'd be a little gun shy about this because I wouldn't want him to go Bill Hall on us. As for the future, McGahee will be cheap for a while, and I have a feeling Lawrie will be a Right Fielder at some point.

I'd pay good money to listen to Piersall call the Brewers games this year. He'd probably last about 10 games before Mark A. would can him, because he'd absolutely rip these guys a new one. As far as I know he's still in good health and relatively sane. Though I've always kind of held a grudge against him because of the fact he disrespected Milwaukee by saying it 'was not a major league city' during a Brewers/Sox game on WGN back in the late 70's or early 80's, I also got a kick out of him because he always said exactly what was on his mind.

That could happen, but I'd rather take that chance. The Giants obviously aren't giving up Bumgarner, but now they don't want to move Sanchez either. What are you going to do, let the Giants choose the players they want to include in the trade? Hart has talent, and he's been one of the best hitters in the game this year. I'm not giving him away for a package of prospects from the mid to low minors. That has 'Ben Diggins' written all over it. The Brewers should have absolutely no urgency to move Hart or Fielder. They are not impending free agents, the team doesn't need to dump salary, and the this isn't like 2001 where the they are years from being competitive.

I would have loved too see that one. I imagine it went something like this. Bill: 'Hey 'jerk', you stole my endorsement gig, cost me 5 grand, what are you going to do about it?" Jerry: "Chill, dude. They're only paying me 2 grand." Bill: "You scab. Between that and the Good Feet Store deal, I'm out a lot of change." I guess the real question is who is the bigger jerk off the air- Uecker or Schroeder? The Brewers color guys always seem to be jerks. Vuke was a dandy too.

If no Minor or Bumgarner for Hart, I think you just stand pat until the offseason. I don't want a potpouri of mediocre 'prospects' for him, and that's all the Giants can offer. Let Melvin's replacement deal either Hart or Fielder, with the one that stays playing first next year.

I say forget it if Kawakami is involved unless significant money is coming back and/or they take Hawkins. Part of my interest in trading Hart for a minor leaguer is that will free up probably another $10 million in salary to play with this off season. If Hart is moved, they are going to need money to find a replacement. You can't have Gomez, Cain and Escobar in your lineup. It's not a lock that Fielder will be back either. I'm not interested in paying $7 million for a guy who will be 36 years old next year, and is giving up more than a hit per inning this year. He's basically an older, more expensive Dave Bush, and I don't want Bush back next season either.

I'd take a gamble on this, if true. Sounds like a perfect fit.