RockCoCougars

That sounds like a team that would win 75 games or so in 2011. Which, I suppose, is fine if it is part of a rebuilding towards 2012 and 2013Really? In my view, this team as constituted should be above .500. A poor bullpen, lack of fundamentals (defense), and mental preparedness has doomed this team to the point of where they have given up. Absolutely no fire whatsoever. That falls to Macha. Going further, being so young and inconsistent up the middle has also crippled this team somewhat. They have a rookie catcher (who has actually stepped up in my view) paired with another who cannot throw, a shortstop who is not ready now (if ever), and a young and very inconsistent center fielder who can't get on base. That falls to Melvin. Food for thought- in August of 1999 Bando and Garner were fired with the squad 8 games under in August, meaning that team was actually playing better than this one. Lopes was 9 under. Macha is heading for 11 under. At what point do you pull the plug?

I feel that in large part, this mediocrity is attributable to Melvin making a poor choice to manage this team. At what point is Macha (and Melvin for that matter) held accountable? No way should this team be where it is right now. That's why I feel that most of this core should be given one more season before everything is blown up. Make some changes at the top, and let them use all the dead money coming off the books to fill some holes this off-season. I want to see what a new perspective in player evaluation and managerial philosophy can do in this weak division. I'm not saying Fielder shouldn't be moved for the right deal, but there is absolutely no rush to do so this month. The same applies to Hart and Weeks. If we see the same results next year at this time, then you can blow everything up.

Apparently the Phillies may be willing to move Werth. Hopefully the Giants talk to them to get a better idea of what Hart's value is. Werth has had a slightly better career, but hasn't been as good as Hart this year, and is a rental player. At any rate, I have a feeling that the Phillies wouldn't settle for Sanchez.

As much as I hope this is not true and that Melvin would have the brass to stand his ground.....Given the Brewers' history with these types of things, I would bet on Hart + one of the relievers for Sanchez and scraps (multiple 'prospects' to make the deal look better). Going further, it won't happen until after the break, in order to spare the negative P.R. for the Crew. A true Sal Bando/Dean Taylor special. I'm sure we'll hear a lot about the Sanchez no-hitter from the spin doctors during the broadcasts. Maybe we could make a drinking game out of it during Sanchez starts. Take a drink every time Bill and Brian use the word 'nasty', 'stuff'', or 'potential', finish your drink when they mention the no-hitter during a Sanchez start, everyone take a shot if Mark A. or Melvin mentions the no-hitter during the broadcast, bang your head against the wall every time he walks a batter, turn the TV off if he doesn't make it through the 5th, etc.. Terrible trade.

The wrath for Escobar isn't just for his defense, which has been borderline brutal. It's also for his pathetic performance at the plate. Since May 25, he has had ONE extra base hit (a double on June 19). Going further, when he does get on base, he has made numerous baserunning mistakes- the speed merchant we were promised is on pace for 12 or so steals (I guess you can't steal first). I'm willing to give this guy the chance to play through this, but he has a long way to go to even become adequate. He has shown a few 'flashes', but they have been few and far between. Hardy was much better all-around his rookie season and he didn't have 40 games under his belt as Escobar had last year. Escobar has already made 4 more errors than Hardy made that entire season. Thus far, Escobar is a huge downgrade from Hardy, who got a raw deal here. Don't give me Hardy's stat line from this year either, his batting average is low, but he has nearly as many extra base hits as Escobar in a little over half the plate appearances- only one error too.

As I said on the Fielder topic. Wait until the offseason, hope the Giants offense continues to struggle and miss the playoffs. Also pull for Bumgarner to have a Cal Eldred type rookie season. Sanchez going gangbusters would be nice too. If Prince and Boras continue to turn down reasonable extension offers offer the Giants Prince for Cain straight up. Remind them that: A:) They have no offense B:) With the emergence of Bumgarner, they now have a solid 1-2 starting punch C:) They will need big bucks to keep Lincecum in the near future D:) Cain will be a free agent after 2012 and E:) They will still be paying Zito a gazillion dollars. If everything falls into place this might work. Cain is exactly what the Brewers need, a durable workhorse, with the stuff to match. Plus, he's right handed. This is precisely why I don't want the Brewers to give in and let the Giants have Hart for a package built around Sanchez.

Sounds like what a lot of people were saying about the Bucks in January and now things are looking pretty good for them. They probably aren't a legit title contender, but at least they have a shot. My point is that things can turn quickly- some guys from within can step it up, and there are deals to be had for others players out there if you are smart. The Brewers need to start with a new manager. This team is just not playing well for Macha, no emotion, poor fundamentals, mental mistakes, etc. He needs to go, the sooner the better. I think Mark A. needs to take a long look at Melvin as well. I'd wait until the offseason, offer Fielder one last extension at fair market value. If he doesn't sign on the dotted line, he needs to be moved. I would think that a match could be found for a solid starting pitcher in the same situation. Instead of blowing money on the safe free agent pitcher, gamble and bring in another guy with a past track record and some injury issues on a Gagne type one year deal. Someone like Webb or Bedard if his option isn't picked up. As I said in my earlier post, I'd move Hart to first, Weeks to center, and McGahee to second. Give Gamel a shot at third. That kid has the sweet left handed swing that this team needs, and Macha has buried him. Hopefully he can be saved. Use the 'Fielder money' to lock up both Weeks and Hart (both of whom I think would be amenable, Weeks due to his injury history and Hart due to his slump after turning down the first extension) and you've got yourself a nice offensive core for the next several years. Add some short term talent to the rotation, and hope some young arms can be worked in along the way. Get a little lucky and you could have a playoff team next year.

No more left-handed starters please. Sanchez isn't enough for Hart, he's just another 'guy' who is at best a #3, (and more likely a #4/5) on a good team. He can't throw strikes consistently and not only would he be yet another bullpen burner, consider the fact that the Brewers defense is very adept a turning walks into runs. For a change this year his ERA is under 5, but Wolf had a nice ERA last year too. Put Sanchez in Miller Park and watch that ERA skyrocket. Up and down that Giant lineup is pretty brutal. So far this week, their best offensive weapon has been the Brewers defense. Let the Giants miss the playoffs again this year because of a putrid offense. Maybe this offseason they will be more willing to give to get. I don't think that it's unreasonable to expect more than a guy with a career ERA of 4.5 and a career WHIP of 1.4 for a player who has been to 2 of the last 3 all star games, and has been one of the best hitters in baseball this year. I'm not sure why everyone seems to think that Hart's season is a fluke. Will he keep this pace up? No, but there is nothing to suggest that he can't be a very solid hitter for the next several years. I give the guy props, the league found his weakness, exploited it, and now he seems to have made the necessary adjustments. I think he's way undervalued here because he doesn't walk much, just as Cameron was overvalued due to his walks. It seems that the same people that want to 'sell high' on Hart were crying in their beer when Cammy was allowed to walk. I just don't get it Without the appendix thing last year, even in a bad year, Hart would have had a better year at the plate then Cameron. Hart isn't really as bad in the field as he's made out to be either. He's no Gold Glover, but he's no Kevin Mench either.

I'm guessing that Gallardo and Wolf are the only two locks for the rotation next year, and I would pencil in Parra as well. I'd take a shot a Brandon Webb for the right price- depending on how he looks this year if/when he actually pitches. By the way, where is Benny on that list?....yeah I know.

I think Bumgarner is a pipe dream as well. Although you have to temper his performance tonight with the fact that the Brewers have been making guys look like Cy Young in their first start against them for decades. That said, though he didn't appear to have dominating stuff (only hitting 91-92 mph), I came away pretty impressed. I was also surprised that they let him go 8 innings. Macha would have pulled him for sure after the 7th.

If all the Giants are offering up for Hart is Sanchez, they can pound sand as far as I'm concerned. The Brewers already have a 28 year old lefty with 'stuff' who hasn't been able to get it together for any period of time. Going further, just as Hart's power would be hurt playing in San Francisco, Sanchez' stats are somewhat misleading because he pitches there. I like his K/9 rate, his batting average against, and his E.R.A., but I don't like the fact that he walks almost 5 guys per 9 and less then 6 IP per start. The Brewers already have enough starters that burn the bullpen.

Why would you do that? If Sanchez and Parra switched jerseys, it would probably take weeks for most of us to notice.

I didn't realize anyone was advocating for anything that drastic. But clearly, we have a lot of improving to do. We're 9 under right now and we've got Prince, we've got Hart, but we're still not close to being a contender. I don't know why it's farfetched to believe that we could actually trade Fielder and improve, and not have to wait until 2014 to do so. You get a near-MLB ready high upside starter for Fielder, you get him into your rotation, you go out and get a 1st basemen like Adam Dunn to take over for Prince in free agency, and suddenly, you've got new names but better results. You've lost little to no offensive production, and you've added a high upside starting pitcher that your team so desperately needs. I think I'd rather do something like that then just throw whatever money we have at the second-level FA pitchers on the market again next year, then wait for the bottom to fall out after 2011 when we didn't get anything for Prince OR Hart. I have absolutely no problem with the idea of trading Fielder, but as I've said on other posts, I'm not on board with settling and trading him at the deadline for a package of prospects. As I've said, I would wait until the offseason, if Boras won't extend at that point, then move him. I'd be willing to be that some 'situations' will pop up somewhere, and a few good starters will be on the trading block then, I'd even take a chance on an impending free agent. Going further, I think you lock up Weeks and Hart. Move Hart to first and Weeks to center next season. I'm convinced that McGahee is the real deal. Move him to second, and give Gamel a chance at third. There should be plenty of decent corner OF in the free agency market for relatively cheap to put rightfield - some lefty hitting vet with a good arm and a little pop in his bat would be ideal. If you could make these moves, with all the money coming off the books, there should still be a little money left to pick up a risky high upside guy for the starting rotation (like Harden, Durcherer, Bedard and Sheets were this year). Take a gamble on one of them on a year deal, and hope some of the young guys are ready to step in for 2012. Oh yeah, most importantly, get a new manager too. Make these moves, and I'm thinking in this division, you have an instant contender. I'm not on board for trading both Hart and Fielder for young pitching because there are really no legit guys to step in for them when they are moved.

The guy hit 200 homers here, and in my view, definitely would have played his whole career in Milwaukee had he not been forced out. Give him his day. On an unrelated note. I'm still waiting for the newspaper page that some here said Suppan would take out.

I hope not. I hope he tells Melvin to trade every player of value for prospects. Then, next year, they can let the prospects develop at the minor league level - perhaps they could petition MLB to add a second AA team. Forfeit all the games at the major league level, and let all the other untradable veteran deals for next year expire, to free up payroll. This should make us a real force from 2014-2018 (hopefully I'm still alive). I'd gladly sacrifice a summer of baseball to increase the percentage chance at a championship.

Normally, I don't really care for these one day deals either, but I think it's cool that Jenkins wanted to do it this way. My guess is that he has some gig lined up with the team. Going further, he always seemed to genuinely like playing in Milwaukee and embraced the community which is pretty rare these days. In a way, he's a little like a Generation X version of Gorman, who also ended his career as a Brewer back in 86 which was awesome, I still remember the buzz the day they signed him and his first game back. When the Brewers were playing Jason Bourgeois and Corey Patterson late last year, I wanted them to do the same and bring Jenks back for a last hurrah, what was there to lose at that point?

I think that Cain is signed for two more years, albeit with big money in 2012. A good scenario for the Brewers would be if the Giants offense continues to sputter (and is seen by their fanbase as the reason they missed the postseason) and Bumgarner is gangbusters for the rest of the year. Maybe then the Giants would decide to add Fielder to bolster their offense despite his impending free agency - 'going for it' next year, seeing Bumgarner as a capable replacement for Cain. Trading Cain would also allow them to free up some cash for 2012 when Lincecum hits free agency- keep in mind they will still be paying Barry Zito at that point.

Get them a big screen laptop and make sure solitaire is installed....seriously.

It isn't revisionist history on my part. I called the Brewers out for their dirty pool in sending Hardy down the day it happened, and I'll continue to do so. I don't care what anyone says, Hardy was well above average in the field and for a shortstop, his offense was above average as well, last year notwithstanding. If anyone is overvalued in my opinion, it is Escobar. Watching him play, I have a feeling we are looking at a Royce Clayton type player if we are lucky- not the Brewer's version, but a Royce Clayton in his prime (the guy the Cards pushed Ozzie Smith out for). I'm not sure if Escobar will ever develop into more than a slap type hitter. To this point in his career, he's averaging a homer about every 140 plate appearances, and an extra base hit about once every 20 AB. Before everyone uses the 'growing pains' excuse, keep in mind that Escobar is going to be 24 years old later this year. Hardy was an All-Star at 24. Now I'm not saying that Escobar should be given up on- but to this point, his performance has been very disappointing. He's also been committing far too many mental mistakes out there. I'm not quite ready to send him to Nashville, but I'm getting there.

So let me get this straight. Hardy's play last year was deserving of a demotion, but Escobar's poor play in the field, at bat and on the base paths has not. Nice double standard. We were definitely spoiled by Hardy's defense at shortstop. This is Exhibit E6 (pun intended) as to why you cannot count on prospects.

Yes, but who? You even have it in blue text about Bumgarner. Going further, the proposals for Bumgarner remind me of how many here wanted Homer Bailey a few years ago. Frankly, despite the hype, Homer Bailey blows, which demonstrates that these guys are far from sure things. Obviously, I was on board for guys like Hughes and Buchholz, but those guys weren't getting moved- not even considering those two have both had a lot of growing pains. If a team is willing to move a high upside guy who should be 'ready for next year,' you have to question why, not even mentioning the fact that it's quite rare for a rookie pitcher to step in and to hold his own right from the start. If I'm moving talent like Hart or Fielder, I'm looking for major league pitching (ala Cain, etc.), and chances are things like that won't happen until the offseason. Maybe there will be some issues (contract, personality, etc.) that will cause an above average starter to hit the trade market this year. The Brewers should be able to absorb some payroll, so maybe they can benefit from a team that needs to cut payroll. You never know what could happen from now to then. In the past, I can remember a few posters suggesting Greinke when his value was low, and that may have been a missed opportunity. That said, chances are the Royals wouldn't have moved him either. (fixed code: --1992)

I don't remember that being too bad, except for when he was in one of his patented 2 week 'funks'. That said, he looked like Luke Appling up there compared to Jose K. and Cammy.

My mistake on Bumgarner, I was unaware that he was called up. That said, I recall that one of the reasons that he didn't make the team out of spring training because his velocity was way down. I'll be interested to watch him tomorrow. As for tanking the rest of the season, I've never understood this logic fans have in any sport. I remember back in January, many were calling for the Bucks to dismantle things. They actually became 'buyers', went on a nice run, and who knows what would have happened if Bogut hadn't gotten injured. At any rate, they definitely have some good momentum going now. With the salary cleared after this season, I don't want to sign second tier free agents. How about trying to lock up Weeks, Fielder and Hart? Keep your own proven guys instead of overpaying for someone elses mediocrity through free agency or gambling and dumping them for 'Rated Rookies'. This team needs to start developing pitching from within. Going further, if acquiring proven major league pitching through trades or free agency is so impossible, what makes you think that teams are going to part with legit talent from their farm system. As for the comparison to the 90's, there are some simularities. Back then the team had a decent core of young hitters with stiffs like Ricky Bones as the 'ace' of the staff. That said, I would argue that Vaughn/Burnitz, Jenkins, Jaha, Valentin, Cirillo and Vina were a very poor man's (a homeless man's actually) version of Braun, Hart, Fielder, Hardy, McGahee and Weeks. Back then, those guys did good, not great and most were traded for young 'talent' as part of a rebuilding process. Lot's of these trades were for young pitching 'talent' such as Villone, Florie, Rusch, Jamey Wright, Acevedo, etc. because then, as has been the case for seemingly forever, this franchise can just not develop pitching from within. You can say that the failure to turn these guys into anything decent falls to Bando, but Melvin hasn't exactly demonstrated the best accumen in the evaluation of pitching outside of waiver wire type guys. The point is, I would much rather attempt to keep this core together than trade everybody for prospects. If you do that, you run the very real risk of bottoming out like we saw in 2002. Why do that when you aren't running on a Selig-Prieb budget. More specifically to this post, if you trade Hart for a couple of pitchers 2 years away (if ever), who are you going to replace him with? Outside of possibly Gamel, I don't see anyone with much promise that is anywhere close to being ready to step in and be productive, though I hear that Alex Ochoa is available.

So you want the team to tank the next 3 weeks then? I'd prefer they go on a tear to make things at least somewhat interesting. I don't quite get the rationale of dumping veterans who are still young to stockpile 'prospects'. With the talent on this team all locked up through next year, and the dead payroll coming off the books after this season, there is no need to panic and enter a rebuilding process. Did you endure the 90's.

That's about what it would take, and I'd have to think about it for awhile as well. I'm not giving Hart away for a couple of marginal prospects with the season that he's having. Heck, 1.5 year slump notwithstanding, he's been an all-star 2 of the past three years. I'm also not as big of a Bumgarner fan as many are here. If he is that good, why haven't the Giants brought him up? Look at his K rate in AAA as well.