GenoSeligPrieb

"When you consider the Reds lineup that was loaded with left handed power, Obermueller's performance was as good as one could expect from 75% of right handed starters in the league. Not great, but acceptable." JBriggs: Obermueller: 6 innings pitched, 6 runs, 5 earned runs, 7 hits, 3 walks, ERA: 7.50, WHIP: 1.67 And THAT'S "acceptable?" If anyone connected to the Brewers, fan, sportswriter, broadcaster, coach, manager, front office...feels that outings such as these are acceptable, then we'll stay in last place indefinitely. Obermueller, with his 8.28 ERA, should not be pitching in the majors.

Hey Harold: Let's see... The Brewers record just improved in a game when Kinney started! Man, he's great! http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/wink.gif After this latest outing by our leading candidate for Designated Rotation Stooge, I wonder how that voting would go if we re-polled today? What was it? Kinney over Franklin: 60-2? Oh...and for the record, here are their numbers so far this year: Kinney: 0-2, 8.61 ERA, 2.00 WHIP Franklin: 0-0, 0.90 ERA, 1.40 WHIP OK, samplesize me all you like, but given their past performances, there's no way Kinney should have been preferred by such a wide margin over Franklin...

"Nothing against Wes Covington, but we do need to kind of know what's going on on the field, Bob. I'm not even sure who was pitching that inning. " Nicely played by all who conveyed the same sentiment. I've noticed that WTMJ had been promoting "The Ueck and Jim Show...pregame starts at 6:30..." or something to that effect. OK, now I understand that, when you have the lowest payroll in the business, that pretty much goes hand in hand with the lowest-profile players in the business....which makes the actual Brewer games tough to sell. Add to that, the fact that you have a popular Hall of Fame broadcaster, and you're going to get instances like these. Given all the decades of losing baseball he's called, and all the times he's had to liven up a 9-1 loss by dropping in his stories, I'll give him a mulligan on this one. But you guys are right. If he still wants to call Brewer games, then call the game.

I mari-wanna beat the Diamondbacks...sorry! (Still, I can't wait to hear the ovation for Richie. I wish I could be there in person to salute him properly, and it's the only way Brewer fans get to see a perennial All-Star...)

"At the very least, it's an example of why I like Zone Rating and Range Factor more than Fielding %. A good defender makes that play and gets credit for it in ZR and RF." Robert: I'd like to learn more about these 2 factors, and possibly (if you know) how they're calculated, because they've always seemed like a more thorough way to assess a player's defensive contributions, besides fielding percentage alone. I hope they're not as difficult to determine as Quarterback Ratings, (which I suspect involve taking a QB's completion ratio, subtracting interceptions, multiplying the remainder by his shoe size, and adding his uniform number), so maybe we can use them in my arguments/debates here. And by the way, how do our Brewers stack up against MLB averages? Thanks...

Before the season ended, I wanted to start a game thread. Pushpin me, please! Now I can die happy!

"Why do I see Wayne Franklin's name in all of the projected starting rotations posted here for 2004...there has got to be a good young pitcher somewhere that is being blocked... " Well, my sources say that Ruben Quevedo ate 4 grande burritos in the 3rd inning today, so HE may be blocked. Oh yeah, I forgot...he's not a "good young pitcher." "I just want to thank Wayne for making my choice to flip over to Helena playoff baseball easy tonight." No kidding, MassBrew? I don't imagine that anyone outside Montana, whichever city they were playing, and relatives of the players tuned in to that game. Hey, at least you gave the majors first crack. And while I'm in no position to say so, with Tennessee benefitting from all those penalties against the Raiders to beat us, watching the Helena game sure beats watching a replay of the Patriots game! http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/wink.gif

"If he and Brady Clark are the reserves next year, I won't complain too much. I will!~ ive got no problem with one of the reserve outfeilders being a light hitting good d with speed guy..but i think its importnat to have a 4th outfeilder who can get 350 ab's without being a mile below average" I'm with my overlooked friend pogokat, here, Harold. Re-reading this thread, I could see the entire gamut of the human emotional range here. Anger, joy, frustration, you name it. And when one of these AAAA rummies like a Mark Smith, Brady Clark or Jason Conti comes through in a late August game in a lost season, there shouldn't be such rejoicing. It's one thing to see a "battler" like a Mark Smith come up and hit a dramatic homer, and be happy about that for a day or so. If he put us into first place with such a clout, a la Good Ol' Ned with that key hit in '82 that he stills clings to, that's one thing. But it's quite another to see nobodies like Jason Conti and Brady Clark come through in limited, non-pressure situations, and start planning around them for the future. In limited game situations like these, you could unplug Jason Conti, Mark Smith and Brady Clark, and replace them with other aging, sub-.700 career OPS flotsam like Wendell Magee, George Lombard and Hiram Bocachica, and not miss a beat. The time for granting too much playing time to screwballs like Clark and Osik has got to end. Who'll be catching 50-100 games for us NEXT year? Mike DeFelice? Will Trenidad Hubbard take over LF when Jenkins gets hurt? How about handing the ball to Calvin Maduro 10 times next year as our 5th starter? And when one of these clowns wins a game for us when we're 20 games out next August, will we be looking to bring them back for more? I can't speak for him, but I'm sure pogokat and I wouldn't complain too much if our 4th outfielder is someone like Brian Buchanan, Bubba Trammell, or even sausage-assaulter Randall Simon. Not a bunch of league-minimum, 1-HR-every-150 at bats weaklings. This post is sponsored by Randall Simon's Sausage Patties. You can't beat 'em! http://images.usatoday.com/sports/baseball/_photos/2003-07-09-sausage-inside.jpg

"At least when they give up on a game, they give up all the way. " Agreed, PTH. Take a gander at tonight's lineup: E Young 2B K Ginter 3B B Clark CF R Sexson 1B M Smith LF E Perez C J Vander Wal RF R Clayton SS D Manning P Actually, I'm shocked Sexson's out there. Maybe by the 5th, he'll take a seat. Brady Clark probably never batted 3rd even in high school, and Mark Smith is "protecting" Richie in the 5 hole, while another over-30 AAA superstar is on the mound, tossing batting practice. I remember once going to a game at Comiskey, and the starting outfield included Chris Jones and a couple of Moutons, with other luminaries such as Blanco and Lou Collier in the same lineup. I felt cheated as we got our asses handed to us. If I would have known, I would have picked a different game. Honesttogod, is tonight's lineup worth paying major league prices to see? This is like an NFL preseason game. And only half the people show up for those. HYPOTHETICALLY, if they would have announced tonight's lineup in advance, you'd see maybe 4,000 fans. It would be like going to see "The Producers" on Broadway with nothing but understudies. Migod, they'd BETTER get that #1 draft choice now...

"[ "Every once in a while" apparently is enough for sunny ol' Neddy. ] So what should Yost be saying/doing? "Yeah, we suck... It's like when you step out in front of oncoming traffic and get hit by a bus.... but instead of dying, you do it for 162 days in any given year." Perhaps if the roster wasn't almost completely devoid of talent, he could us a more positive metaphor. " Brian: How about "it won't be easy, Atlanta has a lot of talent. But we'll match up as best we can today, and see what happens. One game at at time..." If you start expounding on winning "every once in a while" then that means you accept and expect to LOSE the remainder of that time. With such low expectations, losing so often is not the irritant that it should be.

"Wow. I know this is the Braves, but not even the great motivator Yost can keep this team from sucking in the second half? Maybe 100 loses is inevitable... " Perhaps you've forgotten, but Ned's already in the black for this series. We already won ONE of the games. "It's like the 15-year-old kid that goes to the bus stop and gets his butt whipped by an 18-year-old every day. Yeah, it's hard to keep getting up and going back to that bus stop every day. But every once in a while, you beat the crap out of the 18-year-old. Every day can be the day. That's the beauty of this game." And that day came Monday already. What more do you want? http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/wink.gif "Every once in a while" apparently is enough for sunny ol' Neddy. Especially when you've got a 2-wins-out-of-every-3 team against a 1-win-out-of-every-3-team. Here's how far we are from competing: 10-2 & 7-1 (and counting) when things are normal. When we DO squeak out a 1-run victory over Atlanta, it's when we're being rescued by an All-Star whom we can wait to trade away because he'll soon get paid what he's earned.. Tomorrow night my guys take on the St. Louis Rams...

For the record, midway through last night's game, there was this exchange: BU: "Here's Joe McEwing for the Mets...Not Patrick Ewing. Remember when they had him here in New York, Jim? He's retired now, but boy he was something." JP: "Yeah, he could hit better than most of their lineup." Oh, God...

"See Geno.... if YOU can't tell the difference between beaming and beaver do YOU have a credibility issue? " But wasn't that JP who mistook the 2 words? http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/happy.gif Anyway, there's never been a difference between "beaming", "beaver" or even the new 2004 "beemer" Wendy drives. And since when has credibility been an issue for a closet Mets fan like myself? That's right...I've always been a Mets fan, and that's why I've posted here, at ESPN and at Fastball since the 90's...to set everything up to finally one day shed my Brewer-logo Zubas, and expose myself to you as the Big Apple polisher that I truly am. I've been waiting 5 years for this day, I tells ya... Free at last...to be the loser that I am!

"It makes you wonder what to believe at the time he says it, and that draws you back to the credibility issue. ] Yeah, Geno... just like when JP mentioned Wendy's "beaver"???" Exactly! See? http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/wink.gif

"OK Geno, this: Instances like this are the very reason why I cringe at some of JP's announcing. I don't expect ANY announcer to openly criticize his own organization. Preceeded by this: But as far as "balanced", that's far from accurate. When Jeff Cirillo was here, JP lauded his bat and prowess at the hot corner. But once he was no longer part of the organization with the trade to Colorado, JP in hindsight criticized his lack of speed, his range at 3rd, and said 'we need a bigger bat from 3rd base.' When Lenny Harris was brought in, JP praised him as a 'stabilizing veteran force in our clubhouse that's badly needed.' When he signed with the Cubs, JP said 'clubhouse leadership is overrated.' When Jose K and Burny were here, their staggering strikeout totals were not a problem. But once they were gone, JP pointed to a 'real need to improve that area.' Other deserving targets, such as Royster, Hammonds and Wendy escaped without a scratch. That's hardly balanced reporting. So if you don't expect anyone to criticize the organization, then wasn't this paragraph contradictory to that?" You're probably right, Peavey. Tough to say. The word "openly" is the key here, I guess, and so is "expect." I admit I probably should have written "routinely criticize" or "show open hostility toward." Those phrases suggest an ongoing animosity eminating from the team's own radio or TV booth, which no one expects, or even likes. But I do think it builds and fosters a sense of credibility and balanced reporting when you're not afraid to speak out against poor managerial decisions, or bad trades/signings. The other part of my assertion here addresses the times when JP changes his views on a player, before during or after his stint as a Brewer. He told us Sean Berry was the answer when we got him. Kevin Barker, Henry Blanco and many others too. But once they're gone, his sense of revisionist history kicks in, and we hear spin like 'the catcher position has been a hole here for a while now' and 'we're better off at 3rd base now.' JP has gone on record as hating the mound theatrics of Jose Lima, which is fine. But what if Doug would have signed him, and he'd have rattled off a 7-0 start for Milwaukee? Jim would probably call him 'a character' and possibly 'misunderstood.' It makes you wonder what to believe at the time he says it, and that draws you back to the credibility issue. So, I think I could have phrased it more specifically, but I'd hope you agree that calling the other team "losers" is not something that makes us proud to be Brewer fans. If the Padres announcer called our team 'losers', it would be inappropriate just the same, whether it was technically accurate or not.

One at a time here... "to go off on such a tangent against him is just typical Geno stuff....self-pandering aggrandizement that only serves to tear down a part of the Brewers that actually gives a rip..." I'm all about the aggrandizement! But you'll have to explain the "self-pandering" angle. It doesn't fit. Anyway, if you re-read my post, MFan, you'll see that I stayed on the topic at hand (not what anyone could call 'going off on a tangent.') Calling another team "losers" was shameful, even if they were the Devil Rays, who have less of a tradition than even we have. I'm still proud to call Bob Uecker our own, because that's not the brand of rhetoric he'd readily reach for. When Chad Fox and Bernie Carbo blasted the Brewers after their time here, Ueck armored up to defend his team, but I can't think of one instance where Ueck engaged in a war of words for no good reason. Powell may resent the Mets for their spending habits, their buffet table, and their proximity to the Gowanus Canal... But unless the Mets' people showed him some personal hostility that he hasn't fairly shared with the audience, then I'm sure his family, Ueck, his bosses, and listeners would all agree that he would be better served to not initiate a flame war, like some Big Reed of the airwaves. I prefer Brewer announcers when they're responsible and show some class. "Amen Geno. If you ask JP he'd go on one of his baseball economics ******** tangents and imply the only reason the Mets are better than the Brewers is because of a bigger bankroll. JP is too busy being a company tool and attacking other teams so that Brewer fans don't pick up on FACTS like the ones you just quoted Geno." Thanks for the pick-me-up, Dave. Again, unless the Mets singled him out personally, this was really inappropriate...and on the first day back! "As for the 6,000 fans comment, and the "FACT" that JP called the Mets losers, what's so wrong with that?...Yes, it might not serve any real purpose to criticize another organization when your own is in such poor shape (the glass house argument, perhaps)" You answered your own question there, batman. I'm just a 1/2assed fan who's blathering away in some fan forum, so keeping my inner child in check does not reflect poorly on the organization. JP's voice is the voice of the organization, and to some extent, of Milwaukee and the state of Wisconsin. And with that comes a great measure of responsibility. "If you want intelligent and balanced coverage of the Brewers, listen to Bob and Jim. Simple as that." Maybe just Bob, right? JP's intelligent, and he DOES bring a lot to the broadcasts. But as far as "balanced", that's far from accurate. When Jeff Cirillo was here, JP lauded his bat and prowess at the hot corner. But once he was no longer part of the organization with the trade to Colorado, JP in hindsight criticized his lack of speed, his range at 3rd, and said 'we need a bigger bat from 3rd base.' When Lenny Harris was brought in, JP praised him as a 'stabilizing veteran force in our clubhouse that's badly needed.' When he signed with the Cubs, JP said 'clubhouse leadership is overrated.' When Jose K and Burny were here, their staggering strikeout totals were not a problem. But once they were gone, JP pointed to a 'real need to improve that area.' Other deserving targets, such as Royster, Hammonds and Wendy escaped without a scratch. That's hardly balanced reporting. Peavey's turn next: "The defense rests. What about Jim's statement was incorrect? David and Geno have had some sort of a hatred for Jim Powell for as long as I recall simply because they feel he's doesn't openly criticize the organization on the air as much as they feel he should." The defense can't rest just like that, PF. The only way you can allow JP's unprovoked, irresponsible statement, is if he prefaced it with the caveat that the Brewers TOO are losers...for 11 straight years. Ask yourself this: If Jerry Coleman announced at a Padres game that the BREWERS were losers, wouldn't you be upset? Instances like this are the very reason why I cringe at some of JP's announcing. I don't expect ANY announcer to openly criticize his own organization. And I understand that the announcers are, by extension, a PR arm of the team, urging listeners to come on out to the game, and promoting other marketing efforts. But to rip other teams, and flip-flop on your assessment of ex-players once they leave, that's quite another matter. Jack Brickhouse loved the Cubs so deeply when he did their games on WGN for decades, that you could practically hear the rustling of his pom-pons in the booth. But I NEVER heard him stoop to inflammatory words against another ballclub, even during the heated 1969 pennant race. Ueck doesn't stoop to this level either. Harry Kallas, Vin Scully, Ernie Harwell...all legends in the Hall of Fame...none of them practice this in-your-face style of homerism that has sprung up lately with the Ed Farmers of the world. "Geno does have a point, and I feel its valid. I mean, for the pair in the booth to kinda poke fun at the attendance when the Brewers likely wouldn't have drawn much more on a Monday night is kinda silly...and then to say that the Mets are "losers" is kinda over the top. It may have indeed been in jest, but Jim should know better to not even go there...after all, as it was pointed out before, I believe the Mets have done more in terms of pennants and playoff appearances in the last decade than the Brewers have done in their history." Thanks, Jason. I sincerely hope JP reads this here, and/or if it's pointed out to him, perhaps he can issue some sort of retraction tonight. It's also possible that his bosses or Kent Summerfeld may already have given him a heads-up about this. I hope so...

In the 9th inning, when Ueck and Jim Powell were mentioning the bad attendance tonight at Shea, the discussion ran toward all the problems the Mets were encountering in 2003, including Glavine complaining about the media, and Piazza possibly seeking a trade. Bob U.: "How come nobody wants to leave the Yankees? Why is it like this with the Mets?" Jim P.: "Because they're LOSERS!" I can't really add much to this except to ask, since the Mets have 2 World Series titles, 4 pennants and a better record than we have, what does that make the Brewers then?

"catching WOAH SOLVDD -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Lou Palsmo is hitting great and a great all around catcher with speed this guy is a gonna be the future hopefullly " Can I take a stab at this? Like Batman and Robin, when the Riddler left behind a tricky limerick with clues contained therein, I went to my version of the BatComputer, and began deciphering this nugget of knowledge right away. Perhaps this is a series of clues and cryptic acronyms to a bigger story here. I stayed up all night trying to unravel this, and the key here is the use of the word "hopefullly." We all know that "hopefulllly" has 4 L's. But dropping that L from the spelling helped me decipher this. So far I've been able to figure out that Milwaukee Police still haven't "solvdd" the case where ex-teammate Lou Collier disappeared (HE'S the "missing" L - get it?!) after he stole a "Plasma" TV from Valerio De Los Santos (or VDLS as we often refer to him by). In a statement at police headquarters, VDLS said "Woah is me!" And Valerio will "catch" him...sometime in the future...but....ahem...Lou is too "speedy" for him....*cough*....ummm...ah to hell with it, I give up. To quote the "snooty/snottty" waiter at the upscale restaurant when Ferris tried to sneak in as Abe Froman, Sausage King of Chicago, "I weep for the future!"