HiAndTight

Yeah, they voided it because he had a cut on his foot. Doesn't seem like they were really all that eager to ensure he became a part of their organization. If anything, it sounds like they realized they'd overpaid and it was an excuse for them to back out. Probably the reason they weren't back in on him when his foot was healed up? Or why he's signed for 1 year deals the past two seasons. But would you maybe like to provide some context for the Chiefs Super Bowls wins? They have this guy at QB who is REALLY good. And they've got lots of players on offense who are REALLY good. They haven't won because of their defense. Yet you're trying to say because a guy plays on that defense, that somehow proves your point that he's a talented player? He hasn't been better than King and this conversation has veered off into the totally ridiculous now.

I would say he was dealt more than just a bad hand in Detroit...more like a 2-7 off suit. And Washington was maybe a 2-7 suited? If he fails with the Packers, then he's not a good coach. The talent is there. I think we saw that last year in spite of Pettine they were pretty solid. Particularly as the year went on. I'm also not a fan of the hire in particular, but I was only going to be a fan if I knew much about the guy they were hiring. Since Leonard turned them down...

I can compare it too LaFleur because people made the same complaint when he came in. And yes, Washington had VERY little talent on defense. You're using Bashaud Breeland to help make your argument.....which I kinda think makes mine. Good enough to start for a team that won the Super Bowl last year but not good enough to use as an example of the talent that Barry had to work with? Breeland is solid. He's head and shoulders better than Kevin King as a #2 corner. If you'll downplay him as a good player that Barry had to work with than nothing I say will convince you otherwise. Yeah, their 3rd best CB on a team that's known for winning through their defense, right? He was SO great...he signed with GB for the minimum and then signed back to back 1 year deals with KC. Doesn't exactly sound like a premium talent, does it? And no, he's not "Head and shoulders" better than King. Really leaning into the hyperbole though.

Exactly. He might suck, but don't tell me he sucks because he was bad in Detroit or Washington. Both places have had a lot of good coaches over the years and they've continued to challenge the Jets for the worst run franchises in professional sports. We'll see this next year though. This defense should be pretty good based on their talent.

I can compare it too LaFleur because people made the same complaint when he came in. And yes, Washington had VERY little talent on defense. You're using Bashaud Breeland to help make your argument.....which I kinda think makes mine.

Yeah, I read about that this morning. I thought the Kids in the car were alright though and Reid was the one who was in rough shape...much have been an early edition without all the facts I guess...? Sounds like he was coming from Arrowhead. So it would stand to reason the coaches had a few bears while studying.

They interviewed him twice. But you think that as soon as Leonard turned him down he "panicked" for some reason and just hired Barry? C'mon...they've been talking about Candidates since the season ended and had...what, 15 interviews. Would you be claiming LaFleur "panicked" if he hired Evero? They narrowed it down to two finalists. When their first choice turned them down, they moved on to their next one. I don't know what about that suggests they panicked in any way. Doesn't really sound like they're "nothing alike," other than one is younger and coaching in College. No...it doesn't. I've already listed the lineup he had with the Lions. Those were the MATT MILLEN LIONS They had MAYBE one or two players who would start for an average team...and he still managed to get them to at least finish in the top 3 in takeaways.. And then again, the model franchise that is Washington. Bill Bellichick would have been giving up 35 a game. Honestly though, what defensive coach do you think could have reasonably been expected to turned those awful Lions teams that had QB's running out of the back of the endzone...into a solid defense? His teams WERE in the top 3 in FF's and Fumble recoveries in the four seasons he coached for that two laughingstocks. Does that mean he's going to be a good DC? Of course not. The only things you can say with ANY degree of certainty about him at this point is he's coached two teams with VERY little talent on them and his defenses seem to be pretty good at forcing fumbles. That's about it. Again, kinda like saying LaFleur was "totally in over his head" as an offensive coordinator because his offense was terrible in Tennesee.

I don't see why it'd change. They've got as much young talent on that side of the ball as they've had in a very long time. I don't know much about Barry, but I know Pettine was bad and I expect the defense to be better next year. Most like they were in the 2nd half of the season and if Savage and Gary can take another step and we add a solid starter at DE, this unit should finish in the top 5-6 in the NFL.

That would absolutely be a great move by the Bears....if you're a Packers fan!

I really doubt that. He's already interviewed with the Rams, he's had the chance to leave for some of the top programs in the Country. How does not taking a job make his resume look better when he's already passed on a very similar job at the NFL level and at much more high profile jobs at the D-1 level?

They usually don't...and especially at UW. The Packers had to have known it'd take a significant pay raise to get Leonhard away from UW. But we likely won't know what they offered him.

Look at the players that Detriot defense had... I mean...Washington had ALMOST no talent outside of Ryan Kerrigan and Chris Baker, but Detroit didn't have ONE guy you'd say is a building block. LDE Jared DeVries LDT Shaun Rogers RDT Cory Redding RDE Dewayne White LLB Boss Bailey MLB Paris Lenon RLB Ernie Sims LCB Fernando Bryant RCB Travis Fisher SS Kenoy Kennedy FS Gerald Alexander Is there ONE player in that group you'd say was even a good player? Ernie Sims was a top 10 pick(the only 1st rounder I believe) who was drafted from FSU with concussion and health issues and didn't last long. I'd have thought we would have learned our lesson after complaining about the Matt LaFleur hiring because he led the 27th ranked offense in Tenn the year we hired him. I couldn't care less what a guy's team ranked when he was their coordinator over a very small period of time. I don't like Barry...mainly because I don't know enough about him to have strong feelings one way or the other. I would also have preferred Evero, but that's based on really surface-level stuff. Reading his bio and just...I guess that he was younger and seemed to be well-liked by his players. But as I said from the start, I don't really know anything about any of these guys beyond what their Bio's say, so it really seems kinda silly to get upset about THIS particular hiring because when he was on MAYBE the worst run organization in the NFL with absolutely no talent...he did poorly.

Whoever it is, I'll feel more confident in them than I did in Pettine. If it's a relatively unknown coach, then I won't know if they're good or bad. I can just hope... as we all did with LaFleur.

I do buy TJ Lang's comments to a degree. Rodgers likely does want the Packers to go all in. Rodgers is way too smart to publicly complain or have his agents say something publicly. He saw what that did to the fanbase and how it adversely affected their view of Favre. I think Lang is overstating it saying he's "hellbent on revenge," but I have no doubt Rodgers wants the Packers to be more aggressive and make more win-now moves. I don't blame him for that...it's just a really bad year for that. But I guess if he's willing to restructure with the promise from the Packers that they'd use that money to sign someone or add to this team and that would then push back their out which comes after next season, perhaps that'd assuage his concerns. Assuming he actually has any and these aren't all just friends of his watching what's happening and speaking for him. Which is entirely possible.

Fangio and Ryan coached together in Baltimore and Fangio himself have said he's taken a lot from Ryan. Pettine is the same, he coached under Ryan. So I think the fact that Leonhard played under Pettine is a little overblown. But I would agree with you, if they don't hire Leonhard, Evero would probably be the guy I'd pick based on his resume. Seems like a bright guy, young, lot of energy. Not dissimilar from Leonhard.

I just remember going up and visiting my Grandparents who retired up in the middle of nowhere in Ashland County. So maybe not that close to Ladysmith, but when you drive 6 hours to get there, it feels kinda close. And the only station we'd get at night would be Duluth. That and all my Cousins who grew up there were Vikings fans. I guess I just accepted that explanation. It was because that was the only coverage they could get. Of course, when I say a lot, I certainly didn't mean it was anything like the number of Cubs fans in Southern Wisconsin.

Do we really know that as a fact? Weren't there substantiated rumors that he was a legit candidate to be DC at Florida State or something like that a couple of years ago? Right from the horses mouth..... “I had conversations with a lot of people,” Leonhard said in 2018. “The biggest thing is, this is where I want to be. I’m home. This place means a lot to me and trying to take this program to the highest level, whatever that may be, means a lot to me. That is what it came down to.” “This was kind of the dream job to come back and coach,” he told reporters in December. “Also, being on a lot of different teams, you just realize the culture is different every single place. “There is a comfort level here, understanding what this place is about and how I'm allowed to coach and act and recruit, kind of the whole big picture of what college football is. “(I) understand what Wisconsin is and a big part of me coaching is wanting to come back here and make this place better. I had a great experience as a player and want to give that back to the next generation.” https://www.jsonline.com/story/sports/college/uw/2021/02/02/wisconsin-defensive-coordinator-jim-leonhard-interview-packers/4354136001/ Given the size of the schools who have asked him for interviews, he'd most likely be gone if he weren't a former Badger himself. It's obvious he loves UW. But he's also ambitious and I doubt he'd be interviewing with the Packers if he weren't really serious about taking the job. In fact...I'd be kinda shocked if he was offered it and passed. As I said, it's one thing to leave UW to move to an entirely different part of the country. It's another to move up to the NFL level and stay in your home state. Plus...the guy went to "Flambeau" High School. Cheesy sports writers are going to go nuts with those headlines. "From Flambeau to LAMBEAU!" That's about as creative as I expect. That and he'll tell stories about being a LeRoy Butler, Reggie, Favre fan growing up(although I know a lot of people in that area are Vikings fans).

I don't know, it's really hard for me to have an opinion on most of these guys beyond what you read about in their Bio. And even then. Richard was the secondary coach as Sherman, Maxwell, Thomas, Browner, and Kam were all coming up. The Legion of Boom. Cool. So how much credit does HE get for that and how much does the HC who also coaches safety and was a former DB himself get? Then he take over and the Seahawks are once again the top-ranked D, their 4th year in a row, then 3rd and then they fall of, he's fired. So how much blame does he get? You lose Sherman, Kam, and Maxwell get hurt. You develop a young stud in Shaq Griffin, but I can't get a read from that. If a guy has coached for a long time you can get an idea of what he does and if you've played against him(like Zimmer). Just on the surface, both Seattle and NOLA run 4-3, they play more zone than they do man(though the Saints played more since they picked up Jenkins from the Giants). So that just doesn't feel like the right fight. I like the 34 more than the 4-3 at this point, but that's probably about 20 pct of the snaps each game that you're in the base. As for Jerry Grey, seems like a players coach. Pretty well-liked, he's done a good job with the young guys we have in the secondary. He comes from a 4-3, but obviously understands the 3-4 as well. Former Pro-Bowler, so it's probably a bit easier to earn the respect of the guys. But again, that's all mostly from their bio's. I've seen Leonhard, I like how he calls his defenses, how he pressures, how he'll overload in order to get pressure. I know him and I like him. He might be the 3rd best among the three, so I'll trust whoever they hire(I never would have picked Matt LaFleur out, the Titans OC when they were 30th in the league). So I'm really hoping for the Packers to be the one who steals the Badgers' most promising young coach. And then hopefully he can help them draft a CB in the 1st or 2nd round who can start across from Alexander.

Yeah, I thought about adding that, but he just played so great this year, I'd be a little worried more picks could mean more chances and more completions given up. But you're right. IF he can get 5-7 picks and cover like he did last year and tackle as he did, he's gonna be the top CB in the NFL for a few years. Arguably Gutenkunst's best move thus far. Trading back to 27 and picking up a first the following year. Then trading the 27th, a 3rd and a 6th for 18 and a 7th rounder. Then the following year using that first-round pick they had and moving up to get Savage at 21 by trading two 4ths. So they basically traded the 14th overall pick, a 3rd, a 6th, and then the 2 4ths, for the 18th pick(Alexander), the 21st pick the following year(Savage), and a 7th round pick.

I would think for a 38-year-old guy like Leonhard, that would be the obvious choice. If he comes in..and with all the young talent we've got, let's say Jaire keeps playing at the level he played at this year(hard to expect him to take yet another step, I think he's pretty much at his ceiling), Gary takes the next step, Savage improves, along with Keke. Then the more established guys like Amos, Clark, Z, all maintain the Pro-Bowl caliber of play they've played at or near, it's easy to see this unit with just a couple tweaks becoming a top 5 defense. That's a pretty damn good core. And it's not counting Preston Smith who may or may not be back. Though I'd like to see him back as I think he played really well the last 5 games or so and I thinkhis struggles were at least in part due to Pettine's use of him. He'd likely have to agree to a pay cut. Maybe 12 million this year. You're paying him 8 anyway, and whatever the cap is, Agents have already been talking about how it's going to be real bad for the guys in the middle. 'The only guys getting paid market value will be the elite guys, the real studs,' I saw one agent say. So that could be a good compromise. And hopefully, we either add someone like Watt(which is a bit unlikely) or even Hicks if the Bears do end up and cut him(he's just a step behind Watt at this point IMO), just someone who you can count on to play the 3 technique and free up Clark and really give Keke a chance to do some damage, or we can find a way to improve on the backend. Either way, he could be a very hot name for Head Coaching Jobs at the NFL or College level in the very near future. If he stays at Wisconsin, he's likely more limited to a HC job in College and more likely at a school like Indiana, or maybe even a Directional School in the Midwest...which I'm skeptical he'd take.

I agree. He's talked about his connection to Pettine. Pettine did come from a great group of defensive coaches. But he's also got ties to Grey who was the DC when he was just starting out in the NFL, he coached under Aranda who was an incredible DC and now he's run his own Defense for 4 years. I will admit, I didn't know that schools like Alabama, Georgia, FSU, and Texas A&M had been interested in varying degrees in him, but it's not like he'd be moving from near home to the South. He'd be moving from Madison to GB. He was born in Ladysmith and grew up a Packers fan. Pettine just wasn't good. Every blue moon he'd throw something at offenses that were unexpected, like a corner blitz on the goalline that got Jaire his safety, but for the most part, it was pretty standard. 3rd and 7 or more, softcover 2/3, up by two scores, you're rushing 3 or 4, you're almost never trying to put them away. And I thought he actually had a pretty good game plan against Tampa, but then he goes and blows it on the Cover 1 at the end of the half.

I could see him getting a pretty good job as a D-1 Coach. Again, look at the last two Badgers DC's. Aranda is at Baylor and Wilcox is the HC at Cali. Aranda did go to LSU in between whereas Wilcox jumped straight to an Head Coacing job, but Aranda was also paid 10 million guaranteed over 4 years...which is at least twice what an average NFL DC makes. I don't know if he's got the same name recognition or not among other Colleges, but feels like he probably should. He was a 13-year vet in the NFL, and UW's defenses certainly haven't seen any dip under him. So I could see him getting a pretty good D-1 Job if he wanted to wait for a shot at one. But I certainly agree, a lot more doors will open up if he takes over in Green Bay. I'd prefer Ejiro Evero, Ryan Nielsen and then Grey after Leonhard given the little I know about them. The Saints apparently really like Nielsen and blocked him from becoming LSU's DC and he's really developed pretty good DL's down there. Evero learned under Capers and coached the Rams secondary. But that's just from reading their bio's. I've seen Leonhard's defenses. They play smart, they play hard, and even when they're overmatched, he puts guys in the best possible position to succeed. It also seems like he likes using that hybrid Safety/MLB'er. That's a position I'd definitely like to see the Packers incorporate...but they've gotta actually hit on someone first. They've certainly tried. Josh Jones, Sean Richardson, Raven Greene...etc... But Vernon Scott looks like he could be that guy. And between Leonhard and Grey, it feels like he'd undoubtedly get pretty good coaching, and hopefully, he can continue to develop. He's got the size, 6'2 205, the speed, 4.4's according to the Packers, and he looked physical enough in limited action this year. Plus, you can always hope Raven Greene comes back and figures it out.

What are they to get their cap number below $175M and field a 53 man roster? If they franchise Robinson again, that's $16M... The $175m is the cap floor the ceiling is not yet known at this time. Right...but even using that, the Bears aren't in bad shape. That's the number spotrac is working off of. IF they cut Massie, Skrine, Hicks, Graham, restructure Mack, and trade Fuller, that's 40 million under that number. Getting rid of two of their corners and Hicks might be counter-productive, but it's not hard to see how the Bears can make the cap work if it means getting their first franchise QB...since what, 1950? When did Luckman retire? They could extend Hicks or Fuller, but Watson would be 10.5 million against the cap if traded according to Pro-Football Talk and they could really backload Robinson. Just for a point of reference, Clark signed for 4/72 and counts just 7 million against the cap next year. If the Cap is closer to 196, then they've got a lot more room of course, and probably don't need to worry about backloading. Either way, I'm really hoping the Jets are all in on Watson. The Bears get pretty scary over the next few years if they've got Watson. If they don't, Robinson is probably gonna leave. So that's a twofer.

The Texans very much have control too. They can give Watson the middle finger and he can play as a Texan or retire. Watson doesn’t want to be with the Texans so he has to be realistic and choose from the list provided. I can't believe the Jets are his top choice. I get that they look like they're going in the right direction, but it's the Jets. If I were a Texans fan...outside of probably not being real happy, I'd probably be open to a trade with the Jets. Get 3 1sts and at that point, they might as well add in Darnold, who I still think can be a good QB. Outside of trying your best to patch things up, that would seem to be the best option. You get the 2nd pick this year and if you get 3 1st round picks, that's probably going to be a top 10 pick next year. Hard to envision Watson turning them around this year. It'd also be my preference as a Packers fan. Keep Watson out of the NFC and the NFC North.

An 8-8 team with nothing at QB is likely a contender when they add an all-pro QB. When you look at their cap situation headed into next season, the fact is it doesn't even include a full 53 man roster and its only QB under contract is Nick Foles right now, and they don't have a #1 receiver under contract. The Bears' current roster is on the downside of its window to contend with even a really good QB at the helm. They would have a much more difficult time swinging a trade for a QB like Watson compared to other teams likely looking to make a trade with Houston, because they don't have a quality QB or other good young talent to try and trade away that offsets the cap hit Watson would make on their current roster. Plus they are draft pick limited for the next few seasons. They had every opportunity to acquire Watson at a price that would have had them contending for division and conference titles the past few years based on how they chose to structure their roster from a salary cap management standpoint - they chose Trubisky instead that draft and are now reaping the rewards of that mistake. Frankly their best bet to find their QB longterm would be to draft one in the 1st round this year. They own all their picks after this year...and this year they are down a 4th. And I'm not real familiar with the Bears cap, but I do know they can cut Jimmy Graham and restructure Mack and free up nearly 20 million. They'll be able to fit Robinson and Watson in this year most likely if they really want to. Would they be better off drafting Lance? Maybe. Kinda hard to imagine that gives them a better chance than just trading for the guy you're hoping Lance will develop into, but I guess that's a matter of opinion.