HiAndTight

I know. I think Brewcrewin07 was just too focused on the Brewers and the idea of trading Hader or Yelich and not looking at the players in return. We can retire this now probably(unless he keeps arguing it I suppose).

I think so. But we all have to start looking at things from a far less logical perspective when talking about a potential deal with the Mets. Stroman only makes sense to ME if they want to turn around and flip him for more prospects. They did not pay much for him. They got two guys who aren't great prospects. But I still don't think they'd do a trade that only helps them this year. I think it'd have to be someone under team control through next season at least. Otherwise, them trading Syndergaard for rentals, thereby lessening the prospect haul makes so much less sense. I don't want to buy personally, but who says no to Grisham+Burnes+Arcia+another one of our prospects not named Hiura/Turang? Or take it a step further and throw in Dominic Smith and we add Shaw and maybe Turang? IF defense is a big problem for the Mets, I'm trading Burnes as an up and coming young pitcher, I'm not lowering his value to what he's done this year if I'm the Brewers, they get Shaw to man 3rd for the next couple years, they get Arcia as a defensive stalwart, they get Grisham who could be called up today and can actually play OF defense. We get a good young 1B who probably can play LF if you need and I guess you hope Syndergaard goes back to being the type of pitcher he was in 2016. Personally, I want to see what Grisham can actually do, is he really THIS good? But even if you do trade him, at least you're not trading him or any of these guys for a rental. This is the only type of deal that I could get behind. One that costs us, but where we get back controllable young talent. Mets probably want more, but I thing Turang is a really valuable asset and I think his advanced approach will see him in Biloxi by the 2nd half of next year. So if he's going, I'd want a good, young, big-league bat coming back.

You might have to read other posts for context. i know...Im the oneone of the few dozen people that called out that guy by saying he wouldn't trade Hader for all of those guys. Fixed.

I take you're in Wisconsin, right? I was thinking about switching to Dish from Direct TV. That right there is enough of a reason for me to not bother.

I honestly thought there was a vaccine for lyme disease until you posted this. My dad's side of the family all moved way the hell up North, so that's where I'd spend my summers. Back then, awesome, hundreds of acres(they were all next to each other and land cheap) of just woods and 4 wheeler trails. I went up there a few years ago with my dog. I was having the land select cut and I didn't know anything about any of it. But I walked through those woods and this field in the summer and it was like a scene out of a movie....one of the 7 plagues. A river runs through the land, so....it was wet, there was no point in even trying to swat the mosquitoese and when I got back to the little house/cabin on the property I pulled...25 ticks off my dog. Pulled them off for the next month in different spots. Under the arm pit, things like that. It was the first time I ever noticed how bad they really were. God that was miserable. Oh, anyway, why I came here. Nancy Grace. I mean, I think she bugs everyone, but I'm just screwing around here at work watching Hulu and I saw a clip of here.

Archer was actually 3.5 years, assuming PIT picks up the 9/11 million options for 2020/21. Good catch, and they’ll pick them up since they don’t really have a choice from a PR standpoint no matter how bad he pitches. I knew Archer wasn't having a great year, but I didn't realize how badly he was pitching. ERA in the mid 5's? Imagine if Baez ends up being a good player for the Rays? To me the second best part of being a Brewers fan is watching the young talent. Watching them come up and then hopefully thrive. Hiura at bats are must see for me. I usually DVR the games and then kinda skim through until there's some action if I can't watch it while it's being played. So now you take someone that I've followed and watched for years and just as they're on the precipice of big league success....they've made it up, struggled a bit in the case of Glasnow(similar to Burnes) and you trade them for a declining innings eater. Man I'd be irate. I know some people(one) who'd love it... And now I'm fairly certain he'll end up in Cincy after this year and win a Cy Young with the Cy Midas there as their pitching coach.

The contrast is insane. The Blue Jays must really like the two young arms they're getting because they're not that highly regarded and it's almost impossible to think that they couldn't have gotten more from the Yankees, a team that desperately needs a starter right now. Though maybe it was just the starting pitching that got them hung up. Either way, I'd have liked to see the Brewers get him...as long as they didn't trade Turang.

I do not buy that. It was a fluke. A 26-year-old athlete should be able to run without falling down on his shoulder. There are supposed to be modern-day athletes, right? Bigger, faster, stronger.... It sucks all the same, but I don't care that it was running the bases. A fluke is a fluke to me. And then I know what people will say, "they're not used to it." Of course they are. They play the game their whole lives. The worst hitting pitchers were the best hitters on their teams or leagues growing up. They hit in the minors and then they hit in the big leagues. But anyway, it really does suck for him. Imagine putting in the work he's put in, the time and you finally get there. You're "that dude," and you lose your footing and dive back into 1st and jam your shoulder. And you know he knew it right away. He MIGHT not have known just how bad, but he knew he hurt something. He was trying to lie to himself. And he went from a guy who could easily have made 100 million in his career to a guy who probably won't be back on the 25 this year, and really could end up seeing his career ending over this.

Doesn't blow me away. If something like Rasmussen and Ashby would get us a proven starter through next year I'd certainly pay that price. I frequently complain of our farm system being undervalued compared to large market teams, but Kay and Woods-Richardson are better prospects right now than Rasmussen and Ashby. I don't see why. Or at the very least how you make that distinction. Of the four prospects, Rasmussen has the highest upside, that's obviously mitigated by not only the TJ he had, but the fact that they had to go back in a second time to fix an issue with the first surgery, but it's a pretty similar package. The only way I see it is the Brewers have the worst farm system, these guys are rated lower than the Mets prospect, ergo, not as good of prospects. I don't believe you would evaluate them in that manner, so why do you think they're better prospects.

I'm pretty sure it goes up if you've been over it 3 of the past 4 years, pretty sure it doesn't goes up or way up if it's just back to back years.

Uhh...whaaa? We have all the aces we need...except we just need that one ace! That's cool. I am rich as hell....the only thing I need is the money though.

I just feel bad for him. I thought that he looked like he'd totally lost what made him great when he came back, but the way that off-speed pitch was moving, I thought he could maybe be a serviceable starter. I'm hoping he just goes back on the 60 day and spends from now until next year just rehabbing that arm, going back to whatever delivery he had that he changed(I really couldn't see a difference, but they said he changed it) and try again next year as a NRI.

I think that was the assumption we were making. Who knows, maybe they actually are smarter than everyone else as someone suggested yesterday and they'll package the two for prospects. But as I said in another thread, it really seems like their primary function is to just annoy the Yankees, the favorites for Stroman. Why the hell are you trading for the guy when his value is the highest, you're not competitive and you're already looking to dump starting pitchers? This trade BEFORE the season? Oh, you want to try and put together a great staff. But it's too late. Some people would have the Brewers in a perpetual state of stupidity like the Mets, trading away Prospects whenever. I think the wording was, "worry about today today, worry about tomorrow, tomorrow."

And who would you give up for him?

And they'll trade Thor. This was thrown out there and it just sounded like the dumbest possible move. Unless they've decided to just give up on the whole winning thing and try to simply stop the Yankees from winning.

Hey! We actually agree on something. You can only do what you can do with what you have to give, but...I do believe prices will be coming down on some of these guys as the day gets closer. That being Said, I would certainly hope that DS has gauged what kind of value guys like Arcia, Aguilar, Burnes, Nelson have. He is going to have to get creative. Now granted, individually none of them have a lot of value, but if you put them into a package of some sort, I would think there's teams that would be interested in some of these guys. At this point, as I mentioned before, if all DS did was got this team a new SS, I'd be ecstatic..I'm beyond done with Arcia. Nelson? I kinda doubt Stearns has to call teams to ask what they think of the guy that was throwing the ball well in 2017, had that catastrophic shoulder injury, now has an elbow injury and looked terrible when he did pitch. It sucks, loved Nelson, but that's just how it's been. He's the guy that teams sign in the off-season as a non-roster invitee to see if maybe he can do something, but they don't actually have to invest anything into him.

Well, that's nice of you. The Dodgers would be laughing ALMOST as hard as the Padres would laugh at that hypothetical trade. Also, what do you need to "trust?" Seriously, coming up in the Dodgers farm system isn't some magic elixir that makes you great. You're talking about not "trusting" players who are right now playing at the big league level and excelling. But this is all moot as the Dodgers sure as hell wouldn't trade Buehler straight up for Hader, let alone throwing in Lux and their catcher of the future. I feel like this went from unintentional to intentional trolling now.

Was Bando bad because Bando was bad? Or, because Selig was uber-cheap at the time and constrained him? I honestly don’t know. Probably a little of Column A and Column B. No, Bando was bad because Bando was BAD. Selig wasn't cheap. It wasn't until they turned the team over completely that they got extremely cheap. But Bando was absolutely terrible. If you went by how he handled the Molitor situation alone he was a disgrace, but there were soooo many more examples. And they went from a team that paid for elite talent to one that didn't when Wendy and Bando were running the team.

He certainly as much of a big league CF'er as Gamel. I don't think 4th OF'er is the way to go. The plan/hope was probably for him to be ready to go in 2021, but he's obviously kinda forcing the issue early. Although I'll be honest, I don't really understand what they're doing when it comes to the young talent that's been developed. They've kinda yanked most of them around quite a bit.

I doubt it. Outside of Adams who the Packers are obviously not looking to move, MVS is the only other guy with any value I'd think at this point. Maybe Allison could get you a conditional 6th or 7th, but I don't know. I'd love to see them ship out J'mon Moore for a conditional pick. I just don't ever see that guy being a reliable receiver. Guys who catch with their bodies and drop as many as he does when he actually uses his hands don't usually have much success.

Isn't that just kinda a default worry though whenever you have a QB like Rodgers? I mean, on paper, we're pretty damn deep and talented. Best pass blocking tackle combo in the NFL including thee premiere pass blocking LT. Bulaga does get injured, but you now have Turner there along with a couple other guys in case Spriggs can't turn the corner. And you've got a lot of talent and a lot of bodies on the inside including a really solid center. And picking a guard/center at #44, he should be ready to go right off the bat also. That's a lot of depth and quality depth.

Wouldn't you do that for any of those players? Even the "throw in" Baez I'd do in a heartbeat. I'd be constantly verifying though that they didn't have a Brett Honeywell, brother of Brent who they drafted in the 36th round or something, or a Brandon McKay. If the Rays were in the NLC I think they'd be a perennial contender. Especially if they had the payroll we have. We should use them as a better barometer of when to buy and sell than the Yankees during "The Bosses" tenure when it was just all in every year.

Ten years ago I understood the "Go for it NOW" mentality because of the sheer futility of the franchise for the 18-25 years before that time. The town and the stadium NEEDED playoff baseball. I think the last 10 years of being "okay" and touching the playoffs a few times actually makes it easier to re-build and do things the right way. The town is still desperate for a WS opportunity, but the fanbase is strong enough to wait a few years to make it happen and hopefully make it happen repeatedly. That wasn't the case in 2006-2008. The ages of Uecker and Selig is really the only motivation that might push the organization to sell out for the moment. Agreed. Also, those teams seemed to play below their talent levels or what was expected out of them. It was easier to picture a lineup with Hardy, Hart, Weeks, Prince, Braun, Hall at a time with Sheets and Gallardo needing that elite pitcher like CC. Also, remember that was when we had that team in AA that just kinda developed at once. They weren't all highly touted prospects, Laporta was a reach according to most, but it was almost the ideal group to trade from. There have to be rational discussions on this both ways though. If you dismiss out of hand the idea of trading a guy like Hader for two current STUDS on the Padres and then an elite prospect(and a former top 15 overall catcher) you're not having a reality-based discussion. It's the same as saying you'd never trade ANY prospects no matter what. I wish I was of the opinion that it was worth buying right now. I certainly don't like not wanting the Brewers to add. But what I hate even more are those periods when they bottom out. A good GM and a well run team, again, the Ray and A's are two that I can think of that often sell when they're technically a contender, but they know they're not on the same level as the other teams, that's the type of team that can be consistently competitive, replenish it's farm system and then invest more in certain years than others.

So if you were offered those 4 prospects/players for Hader...you'd pass? That's....incredible. No GM in the game passes on that type of talent for a left handed reliever. Even a really, really good one. That is just....absurdly short-sighted. And stop with the "fans would run Stearns out," nonsense. Not all Brewers fans are this naive. They understand that sometimes you make trades. And given that Tatis a 20 year old SS who's production isn't far beyond Yelich, Paddock would be the Brewers best starting pitcher this year, Gore is the top left handed pitching prospect in baseball and then you throw in a high upside 23 year old switch hitting catcher already playing in the big leagues......I don't think it'd take long for fans to put down those stupid pitch forks. For the record, the Padres are the ones turning that down, not the Brewers. And the Brewers would likely hear giggling or outright laughter on the other end of the phone before it was hung up. I'd take Tatis for Yelich straight up. And you wouldn't do Tatis and 3 other extremely valuable players for Hader? I saw a tweet about the Brewers trading Aguilar to the Rays and someone on there suggested Snell AND one of Honeywell, McKay, Liberatore PLUS Baez. Was that you by chance?

Very angry today. Hiura was just a prospect about a month ago. There’s more than one way to skin a cat as there is to build a baseball team. The Brewers don’t have endless resources like some of the teams they compete with. IF the market is right to pick up some very talented prospects, I think they should do it. Those prospects can become currency too. Ya know, buy other players, like Yelich. Yes, every single player ever was a prospect. Some people can be upset that fans like building teams the most logical and efficient way, I get annoyed when I hear the same things over and over again about how you ALWAYS trade the prospects for the proven MLB talent every single time. There's 100 years of trades that tells you that's just a ridiculous statement. Hell, even when it works it can end up being a historically bad trade like Doyle Alexander for John Smoltz. Alexander had a CC like 2nd half. Smoltz was a franchise-altering pitcher. It just comes down to this, people who propose such things doesn't understand that it's not a matter of any one prospect. It's about building a system and out of that, trying to find the few guys who emerge. Most guys won't. They don't need to. There are a lot of minor leaguers. You only need 25 guys on a MLB roster.