HiAndTight
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Everything posted by HiAndTight
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Really? You thought Brogdon was gone? I thought he was a given or a near given to return since he was restricted and a lot cheaper than Middleton.
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Not sure how they have the cap space to give him that. Did they waive/stretch someone? I don't know man, you're the one who's the expert on the CBA. Guess they lost the ONE player you wanted them to lose. The player you actually said it was an emergency that they traded. I'm annoyed as shite that the Bucks let Brogdon walk, yet somehow, this can be even more annoying when you've literally argued for every different point and STILL somehow say "I told you guys exactly what would happen." Can I just PUH-LEASE wallow in my misery without another "I told you so tonight?" And in kind, I won't remark at all about the deal that Hill got and just agree that he's a very nice player, but losing Brogdon sucks. Deal?
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They are keeping everyone else. The lost Mirotic and probably Hill. When I say everyone else, I mean everyone else. Not some subset of everyone else that prioritizes two B-level talents over 3 others. Dude, you talk out of BOTH sides of your mouth. They brought back everyone on the team at the time you made the comment that they SHOULDN'T match a big RFA offer sheet for Brogdon Mirotic hadn't been traded for yet and Hill is talking to the Bucks. So they're doing EXACTLY what you said you wanted them to do before you wanted them to do something different...I guess. Here AGAIN is your comment so you can't keep changing your story; YOU about BROGDON. So they didn't have Mirotic then, who are the "everyone else" that they are likely to lose?
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Probably Hill too. Think he has to settle for a room MLE in this market? GM's can be really dumb in overrating certain players and underrating others - especially great defenders like Hill - but I would be surprised if he's back. So no, they're not as good as the playoff team last year. Not even close. Yes, I do think that's what he has to settle for in this market. This market is paying out younger players. They're not giving big money to aging backup point guards. And stop it with the "I told you so." I really don't want to keep going back and showing where you said the EXACT opposite and I don't want to read a pissing match when I'm already annoyed whenever on the black gets on. I think you told everyone-everything, so you told us we should or could or would do every possible iteration of what could happen.
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Traded player exception and the Bucks have a very big one. I think it's pretty straight forward, they can take back money in a trade...as well as a number of other things.
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I agree it's a bad move(disgrace I withhold for something a bit more serious). But no, you thought he was overrated and you didn't want them to pay the luxury tax 4 years in a row. Again, I wanted to trade him so they could keep everyone else. I didn't advocate trading Brogdon so they could save 10's of millions of dollars, which is what they've done. For god's sake that's exactly what I've openly feared all along. What's so hard to understand about that? I've always advocated for keeping as many of their guys as possible and paying the tax. At mid-season, my first choice was to trade Brogdon so they could keep everyone else. That switched to Khris when it became clear he would get a near-max deal, but the point is that I just want them to keep as many players as possible and not be cheap. And they've been significantly cheaper than even I feared they would be. And my plan to let Khris walk would have had them back under the tax threshold in just one year. They are keeping everyone else. I get that they're looking ahead to a MASSIVE contract that Giannis is going to get, but I don't think Middleton or Brogdon were signed to unreasonable deals at all. And if you wanted to trade him, trade him to Dallas who had a couple nice young players, or the Suns. Joe Jackson, Jim Jackson, Ty Warren(who I think is on Indy now actually). DDV better just be amazing this year.
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And the Bucks traded him to rent JJ Redick for 1/2 a season. Beat me to it. But hey, who could have thought that the 6'9, athletic and skilled 19 year old could have developed into agood player or that the Bucks weren't a title contender with Reddick...who again, didn't want to be there as their 2nd best player.
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Why....why do you even have to bring up the guy we traded away at 19 years old for a player in JJ Reddick who didn't want to play here and who's now a max level player? By the way, I'd be totally stunned if the Sixers did this and didn't offer Butler the max.
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They're just worried about their profits. Milk the city for an arena and then leave them high and dry with a half-assed attempt at keeping a legit contender together. The whole state is on the hook. And the Packers couldn’t even get help from the state in 2000. That endeavor at least followed a championship and lead to another one. I'm almost positive the Packers didn't TRY to get money from the state. It's 200 million and the Bucks were seriously close to leaving. That's the least of my issues now. I also really believe Horst thinks this is a better way to build the team. They could have just gone with Leuer at Center and not paid Lopez and traded away Erasan. They'd have spent the same amount of money. Signing Lopez for 52 million the same day you get rid of Brogdon for 85 million tells me that your aim is to win 55-60 again in the regular season as Lopez is hit or miss matchup wise in any given playoff series. Brogdon is a good fit for ANY series. So who do we have coming in that could reasonably improve beyond Giannis who somehow always finds a way. Wilson-At best he's a Mirotic but a little better defensively DDV-We saw nothing from him. Brown-He was a good replacement while we were cruising into the playoffs. That pretty much it? I don't think Pat C is gonna become a much better player. He's an effort guy. Damn....now they might as well have just torn it all down and hoped a superstar wanted to play with Giannis.
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I'm gonna choose to believe right now that the Bucks believe DDV is going to be a very good player. That, and act excessively childish on twitter...becaus after all, that's what it's for, and tweet at the Bucks owners. It's not something I've literally EVER done...like to anyone. But I feel like this is worth it. Believing that DDV and Sterling Brown can be good players, trying to convince myself of that while also yelling at people who don't care what I have to say will make me feel a little better. Man...I really wished I smoked pot right now. Something that could make me relax. Again, of the 10 teams that the Bucks COULD have done a sign and trade with, the team that had the LEAST intriguing young players(other than maybe Philly and that was unlikely) was Indy. I spent hours thinking, "ok, If Brogdon gets a huge offer sheet and they don't match, they'll have to do a sign and trade and get back SOMEONE...AND a pick." Please, the Jordan of Delaware be a good player. And even if you are, this is still nonsense. Brogdon is the exact type of player and person you want in your organization.
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I want to know what your "walk away number" that's been reported with Brogdon for the last few weeks now was? Was it 20 million? Or did they value him lower? was it 15 million? Because if they just set a hard number and then said they're walking away if they don't reach THAT number, that's nonsense. I'm happy they overpaid to keep Middleton, but baffling why you wouldn't want to keep Brogdon. 21.25 million per year and the Bucks HAD to expect at least 18.
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I agree it's a bad move(disgrace I withhold for something a bit more serious). But no, you thought he was overrated and you didn't want them to pay the luxury tax 4 years in a row.
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Golden State was in a unique position. Curry had taken a cheaper deal because of his ankle and for some reason, Klay had as well. That's rare. What's not all that rare is a team just blowing up their roster for a couple of years so they can fit in a couple of max level players. What's REALLY annoying is that the way for the Bucks to build is by drafting(Brogdon) getting lucky(Giannis) and making smart trades(Middleton). And usually not overpaying for players, but this isn't usually. I literally had about 10 paragraphs on the teams that Brogdon COULD sign with and the potential players that could come back in a deal and the team that was the absolute WORST fit was the Pacers.I went to post it and got an error sign. Maybe that was an omen. But looking at it now would just be depressing. They had nobody who was cheap and talented enough to make it worthwhile and I figured at best we'd get back McDermott and picks. And we didn't even get that. They better be pretty sure that Giannis is gonna stick around next year if they're worried about the repeaters tax. Otherwise they just traded away a very good two way player who they just drafted(and who was an incredible leader) for a couple of picks that aren't that valuable.
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That is way too much for Brogdon. I think 4/80 was a good price for Brogdon and I was hoping it'd be less. So that's plenty close enough. I am glad they at least got something for him, but they couldn't get a player thrown in? Most of these guys are getting overpaid. I wanted us to try and pick up draft picks, but...the 23rd pick in the draft and a couple 2nd's wasn't worth a 50/40/90 player who could defend. I guess I'll wait and see what they have planned, but this is a kick in the gut.
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Probably Hill too. Think he has to settle for a room MLE in this market? GM's can be really dumb in overrating certain players and underrating others - especially great defenders like Hill - but I would be surprised if he's back. So no, they're not as good as the playoff team last year. Not even close. You realize this is almost EXACTLY what you said the Bucks SHOULD do with Brogdon, right? You talked about how he didn't deserve to get paid, but he'd get overpaid as a RFA and that the Bucks should trade him so they aren't over the cap 4 years in a row and that he was so out of shape and slow that it was extremely important to trade him? You ALSO realize....George Hill has NOTHING to do with this. He's a backup 34 year old PG. He's not the type of player teams are using their salary cap space on.
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Yeah but I mean before they extended Bledsoe the Bucks pretty much had only Giannis signed for next season. Could they have traded for AD and signed KD? No, they didn't have nearly enough assets to trade for AD and even if they did, FA's aren't going to want to play in Milwaukee.
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That I dont know. I haven't seen this yet. I swear I actually had a whole list of teams and players that I'd hoped the Bucks would work out a sign and trade for Brogdon if he hit their "walk away" price. But I haven't seen who they're trading him for yet or what he is signing for. A first and 2 seconds from Indy That stings. I literally went through all the teams that were rumored to be interested in Brogdon today in a post and said I'd hope we'd at LEAST match any offer for him and then do a sign and trade. I think with Indy, the best I could come up with was McDermott and draft picks. Damn though. This is a big blow. This has literally NOTHING to do with George Hill no matter what anyone says, but it's really annoying. They'd have been better off bringing back Brogdon and Middleton and letting Lopez walk.
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They went extremely cheap. Far cheaper than even I could have feared. They traded Brogdon for picks. They didn't bring everyone back. They lost Mirotic, Brogdon, and probably Hill. And they're probably not even going to pay the damn tax! Don't have Bird Rights to go far enough over the cap. Just think about that. They won't even pay the luxury tax to keep a 60-win team together for a chance at their first title in 50 years! It's a disgrace. Khris's raise + the room MLE should put them several million below the tax threshold. How convenient! Disgusting. I'm telling you, waiving Hill was not necessary. It was the red flag that they were going to be cheap. Dude, Hill has NOTHING to do with this. No team in the NBA was going to pay Hill that. Hill has ABSOLUTELY nothing to do with it. And you basically were begging the Bucks to do this earlier this season. You said it was an emergency to get rid of Brogdon?
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They lost Brogdon and Mirotic, are they better or even as good today than that playoff team last season? They're definitely worse. Because of Brogdon, not Mirotic. Mirotic was likely gone anyway.
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It's not every other team. It's pretty much the Nets, the Clipers, and the Lakers. And the Bucks have a 24 year old Giannis. If you have trouble getting interested in the Bucks with Giannis, I just don't think this is the right sport for you. It'd be like being an Angels fan(but where a single player made a FAR bigger difference). Also, those teams had to tank for the most part and give players away to create salary cap space. And we didn't really overpay for Middleton. I mean, I dont think he's a max level player, but other teams were almost certainly going to offer him a max deal. So it could have been a day when other teams were getting better and signing Free Agents and we were losing two of our FA's to other teams. Instead, it's a day we signed Lopez and signed Middleton(though not officially just yet). Replace "sport" with "league" and I think you are dead nuts with that comment, I love college buckets. I just don't see how the Lakers can sign Lebron, trade for AD, and STILL clear cap room for another premier guy if they can convince him to come while the Bucks are (from what I understand) prevented from even bidding on those top guys due to the cap. The reason the Lakers can do that is because they pretty much have 3 players on their entire roster.
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That I dont know. I haven't seen this yet. I swear I actually had a whole list of teams and players that I'd hoped the Bucks would work out a sign and trade for Brogdon if he hit their "walk away" price. But I haven't seen who they're trading him for yet or what he is signing for.
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I thought the same thing and feel the same way. The Nets signed a guy who will be 33 when he signed next, and two of his best friends. The Celtics replaced one of those guys with another guy who will be overpaid if Middleton is overpaid. And the Pelicans signed JJ Reddick. I'm not seeing EVERY other team in play for all the top FA's. In fact, there are pretty much 4 teams that were in play for the top FA's, of which, Middleton was one of them. But this is the guy we're upset about bringing back to Milwaukee https://www.sbnation.com/nba/2019/5/12/18616078/khris-middleton-milwaukee-bucks-perfect-teammate-giannis-antetokounmpo https://nagalandjackpotteer.com/2019/05/12/khris-middleton-is-the-teammate-every-superstar-needs/ I FEEL like no matter what the owners would do, people wouldn't like it. They have put their money where their mouth is. Again, as Homer as reiterated, as Luke has said numerous times on other threads, as everyone else has said, there was no other player we would have been able to sign. It was our own guys or nobody for the most part. Everyone wanted the Bucks to run it back. Bring back the group that was up on the champs 2-0 and a play away from effectively ending the series with Toronto. Now they do that and we're upset about the Nets signing older guys who are hurt and our owners overpaying players? I....I don't get it.
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It's not every other team. It's pretty much the Nets, the Clipers, and the Lakers. And the Bucks have a 24 year old Giannis. If you have trouble getting interested in the Bucks with Giannis, I just don't think this is the right sport for you. It'd be like being an Angels fan(but where a single player made a FAR bigger difference). Also, those teams had to tank for the most part and give players away to create salary cap space. And we didn't really overpay for Middleton. I mean, I dont think he's a max level player, but other teams were almost certainly going to offer him a max deal. So it could have been a day when other teams were getting better and signing Free Agents and we were losing two of our FA's to other teams. Instead, it's a day we signed Lopez and signed Middleton(though not officially just yet).
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YES!!!!!! That's exactly it.
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I'd agree. He's a much more well-rounded player than Redd, a better defender, but your point remains. But I'll continue to argue that we both overpaid and that it was a smart move. With Redd, we didn't have another star to pair him with and were operating on a totally different level. Signing Redd to a max deal helped us try to be a lower seeded playoff team in the East. Overpaying Middleton helps us try to bring back the team we had last year with more experience and try to take the next step. I do think Middleton is a little underappreciated, but even still, he's a clear rung below Klay, Butler and those guys. I'd put him above Tobias Harris though and he's likely going to get a similar type deal. So all things being equal, I'd say he's worth 5 years 125 million. But again, that guy with all the vowels in his name, he changes the entire equation.