HiAndTight

We're not talking about the state. He's not going to be traveling all over the state, he'll be spending his time in the city(for the most part and he didn't say Wisconsin, he said Milwaukee). I think the "Milwaukee is racist" thing was a little unfair. The suburbs, sure, but again, it's just kinda part of the fabric of the country. And I just said it's an issue in just about every major city in the country for a litany of reasons but Milwaukee is the worst. There are a whole lot of systemic causes for this, but even if Malcolm wants to go into politics, I don't want to here. So you don't need to tell me it's "still an issue there," nobody said it wasn't. I'm saying it's not AS BIG of an issue and they realize it's an issue, they actually talk about it, and have been implementing policies to try to address it. And in all this, we're trying to figure out what he's thinking. So not only is it NOT as bad as Milwaukee with regard to what Malcolm was talking about, we're talking about a city that fiercely fought the Brown verdict and spent years trying to keep it segregated. So maybe it had nothing to do with it and he just pointed out Milwaukee's got this problem. Maybe he liked that Indianapolis was working toward solving it after fighting integration for so long, Don't know, don't really care, just telling you, they're not really "the same." And no, I don't think "someone like him" would be more invested in being part of the solution than "skipping towns." What is HE gonna do at this point in his life to fix the problem that he wasn't already likely doing? He's not running for office. He was probably living in an affluent part of Milwaukee that was largely white. So that was his contribution. I don't really know how you can be part of the solution for that when you're playing basketball other than offering platitudes. You're talking about where people are living. That's something that would need to be addressed at a much deeper level than offering platitudes which is all Malcolm Brogdon the non-elected NBA player could do....he's not ACTUALLY the "President."

Boston should be good...though as much as I love Kemba for his attitude, he's more of a volume shooter and an undersized PG. He's a downgrade from Kyrie and then they lost the guy that everyone around Boston has said was their most important player since he got there in Horford. So we SHOULD be easily better than them. Though you're right, Tatum and Brown could both hit their stride and develop into not just stars, but superstars. They need to adjust their games a bit though. Philly would scare me if they'd been able to keep Butler and not Tobias Harris. What they paid Harris makes me think we got Middlton for cheap. I mean, we didn't, but as Middleton is a poor mans Klay, Harris is kinda a poor mans Middleton.

I don't, just saw a report that the TPE was important to them. It is only half(Edit-not half, but the ~12 million dollar figure you quoted earlier). and it MAY only be important because it represents a backup plan, but with that, with Matthews signing(He's a good fit, certainly not the player he was a few years ago but he should be back to as strong as possible with the Achillies well in the rearview, so maybe he serves a Shane Battier type role). Pau Gasol who I think still has a little something to offer and could be a guy like Hill who could play sparingly and then help out in the post-season. Maybe they actually weren't trying to stay under the luxury tax, maybe they just didn't think Brogdon was worth it and or they thought he was an injury risk. I don't see an injury he's had that would be a chronic type injury, but, whatever. We'll see if this team is battling out for the top seed again next year if they're willing to use that TPE and...lets say Ersan to pick up a really good player who's being paid like a star that another team wants to dump. Then we'll know if this was them being more worried about the luxury tax or Brogdon making 85 over the next 4. I'm still of the opinion they should have brought Brogdon back, but I'm finally feeling better as this roster rounds into shape, after they pick up a couple more key vets and round out this roster and project what DDV, Pat C and Brown can give you in Brogdon's place.

I don't understand why it's 12 and not 20-something. But that definitely gives you room to go out and take advantage. I do think it's a 55-60 win team and a contender to win it all. I just think our chances went from 15 pct to 10 pct and the Bucks could have done more. It's as simple as that. On the flip side, the thing I kept saying I was worried about was that 4-5 years down the road, Giannis would be in his late 20's and the Bucks wouldn't have younger talent coming through, they'd have been in the luxury tax for all that time and without any draft picks, they would be lacking that cheap young depth. So again, at least you get the picks back. And we can dream about what they may do with that PTE. If they even have it because nobody seems to actually know. But next trade deadline it could be a huge chip for a team that's in the luxury tax, but things aren't going well while we're just that one player away.

Well, not always. Look at Cleveland last year with LeBron. You can pull off some miraculous nonsense. Like how the Heat ended up signing Jimmy Butler with their cap situation. But you have to be a destination that players want to go, and the things have to line up just right like how the Nets did it for Russel to go to Golden State so they could get something out of it. They just happened to be signing their top FA so they could turn that into a sign and trade. But normally you have to be planning on trying to pursue a FA or adwa big contract in advance. And look how badly the Knicks keep getting left with their hands in their pockets. They ALWAYS miss out on just about every top player. Remeber when it was a given that two max players were going to New York? But then the morons aren't willing to pony up the max and I think he follows Kyrie to the Nets either way. But it's a lot more than just being willing to pay the tax. If Philly's not willing to deal Butler to Miami and take back a contract in return, they can't do it. You have to tear down your roster, you have to have a FA who really wants to sign with you and then a team will do a sign and trade so they get something out of it...at long as it's not just another bad contract. 95 pct of the time, that's how it happens. There are other rare scenario's in which a team over the cap can add a superstar if they're not THE team that superstar wants to sign with, but it's pretty difficult to pull off.

Bledsoe is a tough one for me to figure out. Remember, Lowry struggled for years in the playoffs. If Bledsoe can get over the hump in the playoffs, he's going to be a steal. Just play in the playoffs like he did in the regular season. But because he played so poorly, they were basically forced to bring an older Hill back. But given that that's so hard to predict and going on what we know, I'd definitely rather have Brogdon than Bled. I just have to reiterate how confused I am that they paid Middleton what they did but not Brogdon. Middleton is harder to replace, but not THAT much harder. You could have run out a lineup of Bledsoe, Brogdon, Giannis, Wilson and Lopez. Now we just have to hope we can pick up a vet or two who can shoot cheap. Nobody special, but like a Danny Green if he were a few years older. Just a straight shooter. I've been told we can find those guys on the streets, so we'll see. Maybe they really like Patty C also. He's a guy who's kinda getting ignored, but he showed up and played well when called upon. He needs to improve his 3 point shot a bit IMO, but he's a really good athlete and really active.

Not really. They don't have nearly the same segregations issues we have, and they've made it a concerted effort to try and de-segregate the schools down in Indianapolis. Indy was ranked 11th most segregated city in the country. Obviously not #1 but still pretty bad. But regardless, here is his entire comment on Milwaukee: "Before I came to Milwaukee I’d heard the city was the most segregated in the country," Brogdon said in the article. "I’d heard it was racist. When I got here it was extremely segregated. I’ve never lived in a city this segregated. Milwaukee’s very behind in terms of being progressive. There are things that need to change rapidly.” All major cities are going to have segregation issues for a whole host of reasons that aren't worth getting into here. I never really thought of Milwaukee as being that bad, but I'm not black. I was in a situation very similar to what Sterling Brown went through and I was actually kinda mouthing off as being a jerk(it was over 15 years ago and I'd been drinking). The cop didn't say a word, told me he could write me a ticket, so I shouldn't do that. So experiences are very different. I'm sure Malcolm was pretty aware of that situation. And as I said, Indy is actively trying to improve and make their schools less segregated. I honestly don't know of a good way to do that, but in the few minutes I spent, there were a few articles that made it sound like they were having some success. But you're going to have to deal with things in every city. I also kinda doubt Milwaukee is that much worse than Indy, but I can't say how bad Milwaukee is because it's never been bad for me. At least they got something for him though. That's the best thing I can say. I'm still kinda baffled as to why they paid Middleton what they did and Lopez and Hill what they did and they chose to let Brogdon walk. Especially if they didn't get that PTE. That could be like Gold to the Bucks if they got it and were actually willing to use it.

Or defend. At least he hasn't shown he can yet. He was just put in there as kinda a filler for Brogdon after he got hurt. I guess I'll just say at this point last year I was disappointed the Bucks didn't get anything for Parker and I wasn't all that excited about Brooke Lopez. I'm still unsure if the Bucks have a massive PTE out there, but if they DO, that really is the only scenario in which they could truly add a better player than Middleton to their team. With John Wall still a year away from playing and a year a year away from his 4/170 deal kicking in, I wonder what it'd take for Washington to trade Beal if they're again sitting at the bottom of the East next year? And even if they aren't but just want to reload. If the Bucks could somehow add Beal, IF they have the exception available to them(and I've read they get it and they don't) then they could turn those draft picks and maybe a couple of their young guards into Beal. THAT could be a championship caliber lineup with Bled/Beal/Midd/Giannis/Lopez and they'd still have a good bench. Highly unlikely, but at least possible IF they have that PTE. Washington could save 28 million without having to take back much salary and at least add a few picks while they start to rebuild. I'm guessing they'd get better offers from teams, but when you see what Butler goes to Miami for or how Russell gets to the Warriors, I guess it's possible. Different circumstances, but still, possible.

Agree with you on Wilson. The problem is by the time it became real obvious he should be in there for defensive reasons, he'd been sitting for a few weeks. I'd imagine he'd play a bigger role next year. He can be an important player without having to score much. Agree with spending the money on Brogdon instead. Maybe they don't like his medicals. But that foot injury..that's not like the broken foot he had at UVA as a Freshmen. That's a pretty standard injury and once you're back from it, it's really not something that will derail your career. It's a soft tissue injury, no that dreaded navicular bone that has ruined so many careers. I think they just weren't' prepared to go that high for him. I don't agree. I think they should have. [sarcasm]Maybe I'll be proven wrong when he comes back 25 pounds lighter and is the quickest PG in the NBA next year[/sarcasm]. I like that they brought Hill back. I'm with you that given the choice, I'd rather throw that 9 toward Brogdon, but since we didn't, it was good he came back. As for the Nets, I think we're judging Kyrie WAAY too much on the last series he played. He had open looks. He just struggled. Again, the worst 4 game shooting stretch for him of his entire career. He's a better player than Russel IMO, BUT even if he's not, KD and he are good friends. So KD and Jordan, who signed for a bit of a discount, probably don't go to the Nets if they choose DeAngelo over Kyrie. So hard to question that. And while they won't be that good next year, what they will be able to do is let some of their young players grow, probably snag a 5 or a 6 seed..if not higher and then come back with KD the year after that and cause some problems for teams. At the very least, we known he's great when he's a secondary star. And if the Lakers don't get Kawhi, it is going to be hilarious. They're watching really good players sign hoping that they can team up 3 of the top 4- players(with KD hurt) in the NBA on the same team and then fill it out with MLE, Bi-Annual and a bunch of minimums. What they should have done was just try and build a smart team around the two stars they do have. Beverly and Bogdonovich would have made them SO dangerous right away. I think Rob Pelinka's a clown. Not because of Magic, but because he didn't time the AD trade right, he ended up giving up WAAAY too much. They then had to just dump last years 1st round pick and two other players so they could make up for not making sure the Pelicans would agree to complete the trade at the end of July. And I think those draft picks could really come back in 2024/2025 where they can switch or are unprotected and potentially really bite them like the Brooklyn picks did after they traded for KG. LeBron is going to be almost 40 by then. There's a real shot the Lakers are rebuilding. Zion could be in his prime with some other young studs and they could end up getting the #1 pick! The bid against themselves and gave up way too much and now are counting on Kawhi to bail them out when it looks like he's most likely going back to Tor or going to the Clippers.

Not really. They don't have nearly the same segregations issues we have, and they've made it a concerted effort to try and de-segregate the schools down in Indianapolis. It's similar in that they're both smaller market Mid-West cities, but not in how Brogdon was complaining. As for Mirotic, I don't really care because of all the FA's, he was the guy who we could replace the easiest with Wilson. But he's a good player. He came here, was injured and then was not put in a very good position in the playoffs. The Bucks basically went with Giannis at the 3(I guess), him at the 4 and Lopez at the 5. So he was responsible for Siakam at times. They were starting Bledsoe, Middleton, Giannis, Mirotic and Lopez unless I'm mistaken. It was a bad matchup for us. He should have been coming off the bench.

I'm trying to talk myself into this as well, but how? I think if you were to envision the perfect guard next to Bledsoe, it'd be a PG/Combo guard with size who can defend and is a great shooter and who while not being a great athlete, does a very good job at getting to the rim and finishing. He plays smart and knows when to attack. DDV may end up being a good fit, but talk me into him being a better fit? And go ahead and be optimistic in your projections. I think it's fair to think he could take a big step next year as he played a few years of college and has spent a year in the NBA(and I'm going to assume that Bud is similar to Pop in that he likes the Rookies to sit and learn for a year before playing them). Agreed on Wilson. I hope he and Giannis are working out together..though as Thon pointed out, that's not a guarantee of anything, but if Wilson can just maintain his 3 point shooting pct and take another 1-1.5 a game, that'd be huge.

Yeah, Hill and BROGDON both seemed to handle the pressure well. Seriously though, if Bled can just play to his ability level, not try to do too much, we'd be fine. He's a lockdown defender with those long arms and his quickness(and he's physical). It's just gonna take me a bit to not be upset that a team that is predicated on the 3 ball and spacing the floor lost it's best shooter and one of the games better shooters(and a really good all-around player). DDV has some bounce to him and he hit 40 pct of his 3's at 'Nova. So...I'm gonna have to hope he can help us out. But people were talking about these guys taking Middleton's place...and that would have been hard as they don't fit what he does the same, but I hope this doesn't change the team dynamic too much. I also wonder if he really just didn't want to return to Milwaukee. It's not something you hear about as much living near the city, but it is really segregated and Brogdon spoke out about that and I'm sure that's not going to be a check against us in the future as well. Not the determining factor by any means, but for a socially conscious athlete like Brogdon who wants athletes to speak up about political issues, maybe he was also making a statement. Frankly, I'll be a whole lot less pissed if Brogdon wanted out rather than the Bucks decided that he was gonna get a few million more than their "walk away" number. Love the draft picks. I've been talking about that for a while. But the picks they got are soooo hit or miss, that only slightly numbs the pain.

I stopped reading in game threads. I watched the game, they looked alright. Still a bit sluggish, but they were hitting into some hard outs and Davies pitches well. It's a step back to where they were.

I didn't even see that Butler was gone. They're really gonna have to find some guard. They're big, but I don't trust Embid and Simmons can't shoot. Horford's a problem for sure. Harris is a nice player, but without Butler or Reddick, they are another team that missed a big chance when they took Fultz and he developed whatever it was he developed. The yips kinda I guess?

That just seems like more evidence that they're not sold on Embid over the long haul. But then...who the heck is gonna play guard for them. TJ McConnel and who else? If they even brought him back. But the "Embid stopper" no longer has to stop "Embid." This makes me a little more worried about the Sixers.

I doubt many teams were focused on George Hill other than his own team on the first day. That and the fact that Hill said after the season he wanted to come back, after they waived him that they would try to work on a deal.

Absolutely, 100 pct agree with you as did others. I think that point was made several-several pages ago(this has been going a while obviously). It's just so deflating. You know you're getting Middleton. That's the most important. Then you hear you're getting Lopez and it seems like Hill will be back and now it's just the RFA whos' left and......they trade him and get little in return. Though, could it possibly work out that they use the massive PTE to add a star player on a bad team mid-season? Maybe this will be the way that we add Bradley Beal to the Bucks for instance? That's another side to this....although I don't know how that would work out exactly.

And everything he showed in college and his athletic ability, his bounce. Maybe the Bucks think he's going to be a really good player and Sterling Brown can bridge the gap until he finds his footing. What I really-really hope we don't see is a Hill/Bledsoe backcourt. That was why I liked Brogdon. He could play the point, but he was bigger and more physical. Think Hill is too important off the bench to bring energy & scoring. A Hill/Bledsoe doesn’t make sense for me. If they go Middleton at 3, I rather see Sterling start at 2. Sure, start with Brown, see how he does. I'm just concerned with the size. With Malcolm, we had a PG who could play off the ball. I think Darren Collison would be a great fit on this team if they could still pick him up. I'm really thrown by the values of some of these players. Collison showed up a few places as a guy who'd be had for the vets minimum. If so, great. WE should also have a MLE as well.

I know. It's like he got on the George Hill bandwagon and once we got to the playoffs and he started playing well....I was so conflicted every time he good play. Good game, 20 posts. Bad game like the 0-6 0 point game, nothing. You come to respect people on merit. And I do respect his basketball knowledge. But I'm a bit worried I'm gonna see George Hill just instinctively start yelling at him!

Really? You thought Brogdon was gone? I thought he was a given or a near given to return since he was restricted and a lot cheaper than Middleton. This is speculative on my part, but I just don't think Brogdon was crazy about Milwaukee, and I think basketball is more of a way for him to pursue other future ambitions than something he's really passionate about. Bledsoe and Lopez for example always seemed like they really wanted to stay here and be a part of this. I just never got that impression from Malcolm. I thought he had made some political comments about how segregated Milwaukee was or something along those lines. And I know he wants a future in politics. And he's not at all wrong about the segregation. It is the most segregated city in the country. It has to be of a certain size, but it is extremely segregated. I also know he wants athletes to be more focal and speak up. So maybe that's it. I tend to think he was fine with the Basketball, but he's an activist. But that tweet, that seems to be choosing the wording carefully, so I'll defer to you on this one.

And everything he showed in college and his athletic ability, his bounce. Maybe the Bucks think he's going to be a really good player and Sterling Brown can bridge the gap until he finds his footing. What I really-really hope we don't see is a Hill/Bledsoe backcourt. That was why I liked Brogdon. He could play the point, but he was bigger and more physical.

I don't think so. It's obviously possible. Luke was the one who said Mirotic said he wanted to stay in Milwaukee. I don't think he ever made sense with Wilson. But Brogdon...I don't see him leaving the situation he's in for Indy if all things financially are equal. I think he just exceeded what they were willing to pay. And that is irksome. That's the nicest I can put that. Copulation and cow waste in different terms would more accurately portray my feelings on the matter.

Yeah, Mirotic was probably never going to come back. He turned down 3/45 from Utah. But losing Brogdon....I wanted the Bucks to get picks. I wanted them to add young talent so they could improve this roster and not find themselves stuck like the Wolves were with KG when he was 30(where Giannis will be after his next deal, provided he signs). I was even hoping they'd sign some UDFA like it's football. But losing such a great catch and shoot guy, a good passer, someone who can defend 3 positions well. That's gonna hurt a lot unless we're able to get something out of DDV. I just wonder if we'll end up hearing their "walk away" number from Brogdon was the 10-12 million it was talked about him potentially getting a few months ago. Man, this market really went nuts.

I don't know man, you're the one who's the expert on the CBA. I'm not on Twitter. Was just asking if someone had news of a waive/stretch that I didn't know about yet. I have changed my mind about which one player I would prefer to lose if they have to lose one, and I have a right to since a lot has changed since that Brogdon post from mid-season. But I've been consistent about only wanting to lose one. In January, that was Brogdon. When they got Mirotic and then when I realized Khris was going to get a lot more than I thought he was worth, I changed to him because there's no way in hell he's worth a max. But I have consistently said I wanted to keep as many guys as possible, and they could have kept Brogdon and Mirotic for the cost of Khris. Two for the price of one trumps all differences between the players they risked losing, but at least Mirotic and Brogdon aren't as important as Hill to next season's record IMO. And the kept the 3 who I think help the record the most (Lopez, Hill, and Khris in some order). Could have kept 4 though. Ok, the guy who was worse in pretty much every single way than Brogdon is more important as a backup in the regular season than Brogdon who started and Mirotic who would have been a key reserve. You are right. You are right about everything despite all evidence to the contrary. You're literally making me hate George Hill who seems like a very nice and decent human being with your strange obsession and exaggeration with how good he still is. He was good in the playoffs. He was just awful during the season with the Bucks. I posted the numbers, but anyone can look at them. Not sure how he's more important to their record, but whatever, OK. He's the most important player in the league. Now with him, we may challenge the 73 win mark.

I'm having trouble. They outclassed that team because its superstar had the worst shooting stretch of his entire career. I really thought that if they were going to basically sign and trade him, they'd get at least a role player back in addition to the picks. And ultimately they should have just signed him. You lose him to a division rival, a team that was second behind you last year(I know, a ways back, but they're getting better) and you get some bad picks? Is it too much for me to hope that they go to Detroit again and people start throwing beers at them? At least make those picks mean something! I know "Metta world peace" isn't there, but still, get 'em in the stands and suspend half their team for the season. Though I would suspect the pick is if not lottery protected, top 5-8, 10 protected. It's not likely an unprotected pick.