Past Member

Congrats to Ryan on the 1st career hit. Now lets win this game

Yovani Gallardo meet Dave Bush, Dave Bush meet th **** bullpen!!!

I love this lineup. Take out Miller put in Estrada and we got a perfect lineup. Maybe Hart for Gross.

Colby, No, I was not taking a shot at you, and yes I was aware that you do some work for PGCrosschecker. I do not know if you are aware of this or not, but within the community of amateur baseball, there is an ongoing argument regarding the issue of all star teams/tournaments, travelling teams and their place in the game of baseball vs traditional high school baseball teams. The latter of which I am, and members of my family, are a part of believe that people involved in PG are taking huge short cuts and we are not very fond of them. Now I realize that you write a column for them and are not neccessarily involved in the teams or day to day operations of such groups. I know that you enjoy the game, you know a lot about the game, and for the purposes of this website and forum those are nice qualities to have. Having an opinion and being an authority are not one in the same. And being a fan or a writer or doing work for a baseball website do not necessarily put you "in" the game either. I am willing to leave this be as a difference in opinion between someone who is in the game, and someone who enjoys it. And niether persons opinion is more important than the other.

"pgcrosschecker doesn't have vitters in their top 10, he is going to be a stud" Pg crosscheckers is a glorified marketing site for Rawlings. To be part of "Perfect Game" you simply have to have the equipment they use. Although they rate players close to where a credible source, like Baseball America, does, I woundt take too much stock in where they place/rank players. No one in baseball actually uses or looks at that site.

One additional note on Francoeur and Jack Z... Today I saw on ESPN that their analysts, and not that this means all that much, but both Kurkijan and Phillips (I think) say that Francoeur is the best bad ball hitter in the NL. The flip side of this is that in the AL that guys is often mentioned to be Vladmir Guerrero....I would still much rather have a guy who hammers pitchers pitches, like Francoeur. I dont care if he doesnt walk. And on Jack...He has been at this for 7 years now. When Schuerholz took over, it only took him about 3 years, along with Cox to build that franchise into a powerhouse, and as the previous poster mentions, Id look for KC to have the same results in a very short period of time. At some point the SD's performance has to be reflected on the Major League roster/standings...and so far...Jack Z hasnt measured up. It of course is possible that if all stays healthy this year, that could change, but Jack Z, I think, is about 3 years overdue for a major review of his performance.

Oh yeah, and I forgot to mention that the Brewers are also the worst at identifying and developing pitching talent. Over the time frame mentioned in the previous post, the Brewers have only developed 10 pitchers. If it were not for Ben Sheets, Ruddy Lugo is the last pitcher to be drafted by the Brewers to put in major league experience. Once again, other teams, in the same period of time that Jack Z has been at the helm have drafted and developed and turned into legitimate ML stars their pitchers, Jack does not. I mean this is a fan site, but c'mon.... I agree that Hardy, Weeks, Fielder and Hart are all guys that Jack drafted and are now at the major league level and those things kind of impact the numbers I have quoted in earlier posts, but the fact that they are at the bottom of both of these lists says something, I think, about Jack's performance as SD.

Well first off, he has had 7 years at this and he's still got the team at the bottom. But lets take the Devil Rays as a comparison. (Since they have been around for the same amount of time that Jack has been SD for the Brewers). The Devil Rays have drafted 31 players that have a combined 42 years of experience. And I might add that the Devil Rays have the #1 farm system in baseball (which also means they have even more "players on the way" that will impact those numbers mentioned above. The only team in baseball that has fewer of its drafted players reach the majors is the Reds and they had 20, but those 20 have over 47 years of experience under their belts. I just think these numbers scream (towards my opinion) about the job Jack Z has done.

Everyone knows by now how much of a cynic I am concerning Jack Z and the Brewers at large for that matter. The newest Edition of Baseball America has 2 very interesting pieces of info in it that I believe are great barometers of Jack Z's performance as Scouting Director. I will say that Gallardo is on the cover and he appears to be the next big thing. I am excited to see his arrival to the Majors and instantly become a #1 or #2 starter for the team. The observations I make are as follows: Cameron Maybin is listed as the top candidate for Minor League Player of the year, with niether Gallardo or Braun being mentioned. The winner of this award generally goes on to be a pretty decent major leaguer. The two disappointing things I noticed (directed at Jack Z) are that the teams farm system is in decline. It went from #1, to #3, to #5 and now this year is ranked #7. I know how hard it is to maintain high levels like this, but it is still in decline. And this is the big one.....The Brewers have the lowest, in all of MLB, in "Total Player Seasons Produced". (in the last 12 years). Only 21 players that the brewers have drafted in that time have made it to the major leagues, and of those 21, they have only played 26 years total in the Majors. Of this group, Geoff Jenkins is one, and he has 9 years under his belt. So take away Jenkins and those numbers drop to 20 players with only 15 years of experience. I would say these numbers directly reflect on how Jack conducts, or should I say "badly conducts" his draft. Just my jaded thoughts.......

Id play him at third. He is a Bill Hall type of jack of all trades kind of player. Its possible that Braun's arm never develops to where they want it for him to play third and he becomes another outfielder. Blake at least has experience playing 3rd in the Majors. Plus he has a decent bat, which is more than you can say for Graffanino or Counsell, and better yet, you get to dump Turnbow.

I think the Phillies would be a prime trading partner because they are in the market for relievers and Derrick Turnbow just has to go, add to it that we could send Jenkins/Mench as well....But the only thing the Phillies could offer in return that could help the Brewers would be Abraham Nunez to play third, but thats no good. Id say you could move the two guys I mention, easily, to the Indians for Casey Blake and a prospect.

I know that I am old school when it comes to this forum, but I believe, as do most people in the game, that closers are "made" not born (i.e. you take a guy see what he has in the minor leagues and then you make him a closer if you need him to be). I think that drafting a guy, especially within the top 10 who is a closer already is a waste. Of course now you can all respond to me by talking about Huston Street.....

Neither one of those guys are going to be available when the Brewers picked, besides picking two college pitchers, regardless of their talent, upside, and eta to the majors, would go completely against the Brewers philosophy when it comes to pitchers and first rounders, which is "cheapest and most likely to develop arm problems."

I have met coach Tanner, I believe he is a member of FCA, so this is no surprise for him to let two players like this go from his team.

Why pick Vitters if we just picked Braun? I'm liking Howard, I fear he might be one of these guys that gets priced out by the Brewers (and I will once again state my disgust with the fact that the Brewers shy away from guys like this, looking only at the short team cash flow vs. long term value). As I said previously, things will have to pan out by draft day to happen, but Howard would be my guy over Vitters, maybe even over Arietta.

This of course would have to play itself out more, but I am looking at Arrieta or Josh Hayward as the best available when the Brewers pick, and as you mentioned, and much to Jack Z's detriment, Arrieta wont be the pick. Do you really think that numbers matter as much to scouts as they do to "stuff"? For this reason, even though Arrieta has been inconsistent, he still has the right stuff. We'll see how things all fall into place come draft day, but I'd take Arrieta first, Hawyard second.

Well, your last post having been said, sure, you have shown things about Fielder that he does better than Francoeur. And it is true that I do not like Fielder, but when it comes to baseball, i never let personal opinion about a player cloud my judgement of that player. That having been said.....people who do projections and trends and things like that forget that when you do that you can potentially project out to infinity and the guy could get killed in a car crash coming home from work that night. So until I see it having been done, I dont see it happening. When do you decide to draw the line? Do you say "ok Fielder had 2 HR his first year and 28 his next so this year I see him hitting 64 HR"...or "Fielder had an increase in HR production of about 32% year over year, so this year he is projected to have 37"....These measures tend to forget that each pitch is a game within itself and as much as a guy has a chance of hitting 600 HR in a year, he also has the chance to hit 0. So Francoeur hasnt walked, his oba is just above .300, still doesnt take away from the fact that he has driven in 100. And regarding your "around him" thoughts....well what good is a guy if he is the lone hitter in a lineup hitting well and hitting a lot of HR, if he is the only guy doing it. Francoeur may have benefitted from having better players around him and guys to drive in and drive him in, but it doesnt decrease his productivity, and I will also add that that was as a #6 hitter. Overall, Francoeur adds more to a team than Fielder does, in my opinion. You can talk to your blue in the face, and people on the outside of this issue we discuss could both claim that we use statistics to prove our own point of view, so who wins?

Once again, agree to disagree. The numbers you quote about Fielder and Francoeur are based on projections and trends, sure those things have meaning, but that is about all that they have, they dont have value. You say things such as I "see" Fielder, and I "project" Fielder, and Fielder "will, these are all assumptions. The things I stated about Francoeur are things that have happened, their is fact to back it up. You make valid points about OPS and OBA. And although your point about surrounding hitters in the lineup holds water, each hitter is an individual, still has to hit, still has to score and still has to drive in those runs, and he is doing it. And lastly, I dont see any pitchers pitching around Fielder, so I wouldnt call him "feared".

Superior? Well, lets look at the numbers...they both have almost the same amount of time in...The only thing Fielder has on him is his OBA and walks....their batting and slugging averages are comparable, Fielder strikes out more frequently, they hit home runs about the same pace, Francoeur drives in more runs and scores more, and he has hit .300 as well as having the defensive skills. All of the Fielder fans out there believe he is going to hit for average...I will believe it when I see it, but Francoeur has shown that he can do it (albeit in a shortened season. So I think your assessment that Fielders offense is superior is premature at this time.

Well we can agree to disagree, I would much rather have Francouer on my team than Fielder, and I would much rather have a guy who is aggressive as opposed to one who is patient. This whole Moneyball, Francona, LaRussa "save outs" style is not the way I prefer. And if you want to say that the Brewers have a system wide "patience" guide, I wouldnt want to use that as a supporting argument, because the Brewers big problem is scoring runs. Only time will tell if Francouer or Fielder has the better career, my money is on Francouer.

TLB, I tend to view "patience" or OBA as two of the most overrated qualities/stats in all of baseball. I am not saying that they are useless qualities, or that they are not good to have, but if you are judging a guy and basing your assesment on his ability to take a walk, or work the count, well I think that you will miss the value in many players. A hit is ALWAYS better than a walk. Most times, the best pitch a hitter will see is the first pitch. Why would a hitter want to look at a few, work the count, be patient, if each successive pitch will be worse for the hitter to hit? I would much rather have a 3, 4 or 5 hitter who hits the ball, who drives pitches where they are pitched, one who takes the bat off of his shoulder, than one who has patience. I believe that one of the worst moves ever made was the A's getting rid of Miguel Tejada because he was a free swinger and couldnt take a walk. He is one of the most productive SS in the game today (at least over the last 7 years or so). So sure, Francoeur had an off year last year, but he still drove in over 100 runs and hit 29 HR. But you hit the nail on the head when you say he has a cannon arm and good range in the outfield, to go with his power. And, he has exhibited that he can hit for average. His skills far outweigh those held by Prince Fielder.

You make good points colby. I just dont think I will ever be a Jack Z guy. I think I am more like the "good face" type of scout from Moneyball. I also believe that you can teach things like power and fielding and arm strength and can also teach a guy with a straight 100 mph pitcher to throw a cutter. And as I have this argument with my dad/coach (not my coach, but a coach), that I would rather take the guy with the pure talent and teach him the things he does not possess vs. taking the guy who you need to wait on or mess with their mechanics. You have obviously done more research on the draft in the last 10 years or so, but I like the college rightie vs. the HS rightie any day of the week. Hes proven that he can withstand many more innings against better competition and is that much more mature. btw, how was the Oscar Meyer (or whatever they call it now) Classic? I think the last one I was at, cant remember if I was still on the team then or not (I never dressed) was when Troy Glaus was at UCLA and they played the Gophs.

I couldnt agree more with your thought that it has to be the "right" guy for your team colby. But then you start to get into the thought that I had posted earlier regarding earning your bonus in the minors vs. earning it at the Major League level (like with Kazmir, or Jared Weaver or Stephen Drew, or as may be the case with Daniel Bard). Although every team misses on someone, you can only pick one player at one time, but would you rather have Daniel Bard or Jeffress, Wade Townsend or Philip Humber over Rogers, would you rather have Scott Kazmir or Prince Fielder? I just think that there is a major flaw with the way the Brewers have drafted in recent years and I wish that Mark Attanasio would have brought in a new team of scouts, player development people, etc. when he bought the team.

Let me rephrase my "high school" thought..... When I said I dont agree with Jack Z's philosophy of taking high school guys over college guys, it doesnt mean I hate high school players all together. I definitely do not like how the Brewers just LOVE high school rhp's. That is the most risky pick in all of baseball (and the Brewers results with this kind of pick validates my belief (not to even touch on the matter that the organization doesnt know how, or just doesnt succeed, at developing pitching). My thought, if I were a GM (and none of us here are) is that the only HS kids I am drafting in the first three rounds are fireballing lhps, and 4 to 5 tool players up the middle. So Maybin is a high schooler yes, but he is a 5 tool CF. Mark Rogers is a high schooler as well, but he is a right handed pitcher, who on top of that issue alone, had major mechanical problems. I think there is infinitely higher risk with a right handed high school pitcher over a college one, but Jack Z just loves the high school pitcher, and what have they done for him? Nothing...that is why I do not like Jack Z.

I liiked Scott Moore too. He will be a back up this year for the Cubs. Looks like they moved him from SS to 3B though, shoot, I would much rather be a back up SS than a backup 3B with that team. I know that in the minors for a few years he faltered with the Tigers. He's only #7 on the Cubs list right now. But yeah he was a guy I liked that year too. And he was available. But I really loved Kazmir that year.