Thurston Fluff

Good point. I'm all for the rebuild, but that doesn't mean putting young guys on the MLB roster if they aren't ready. If they don't have a good option for 3B next year, and can't find a long-term option in trade, I have no problem with them picking up some journeyman on a 1-year deal to cover the position until a better option arises. We are not going to have high-upside young players at every position... especially early in the rebuild. Rivera has some promise, but if he isn't ready for the big leagues, it isn't going to help his progression to throw him to the wolves. Let him develop a little longer in the minors until he is ready. What exactly are the projections for Rivera? I've never seen anything about his bat being anything special but his defense should be good. If he projects to be a utility infielder then what's the harm in breaking camp with him and rotating him around the infield? I'd find it hard to believe that his bat is going to get that much better by spending more time in the minors or that his development is going to be hindered by being brought up early. Sure, he might put up a .650 OPS but that's what got from Segura and Perez anyway. He was young at each level and did get better the longer he played at that level. I don't really know what his offensive ceiling is but what I do know is if we start his major league time now it will be less likely he will be with us if/when he does reach that ceiling. Not to mention we will be essentially wasting those years because the team won't be competitive with or without him. The minor leagues are there for a reason. It is to develop young talent and not waste controllable years in the process. Seems to me we could end up having the same issues with Rivera as Detroit did with Perez if we start his major league service time too early.

I'm not saying we should have taken Rivera off the 40 man instead of Perez. I was just addressing the desire to put him in at third next year. Rivera just isn't ready. The fact that he was young at each level and wasn't really ready for AAA Doesn't change that. In fact it only reinforces he isn't anywhere close to ready for the majors next season. Why use an option on him when he won't help, isn't ready and whose position is cheap to cover?

Rivera also did very poorly in AAA in a larger sample size. I honestly don't get the appeal of a guy who hit .244 /.289/.349 over his minor league career.

i wouldn't be at all surprised if he resigned with us. It makes sense for him to opt for free agency to keep his options open but how many places can Perez go that has less competition at third than the Brewers?

I'd rather they kept Herrera as the main guy at third instead of Rivera. Herrera was close to league average offensively and his 4.8 Fielding Runs Above Average was top 10 among third baseman with at least 250 plate appearances. Granted that is small sample size for defense but he does look the part on defense as far as I could tell. Rivera's main attribute was being a good defender which plays better at shortstop than third. I would rather he get sometime in AAA and see if his offense can catch up to his defense there. He would also get to play third in the minors as that might be his best route to the majors if his offense comes around.

I wasn't really talking about amateur scouting as much as I was scouting in the minors or international leagues. But I do think there is an element of analytics in amateur scouting as well. Not so much numbers but in breaking down body types, what types of growth potential of high school vs college kids can projected. That sort of thing. I would think analytics will find it's way into even amateur scouting more than in the past.

I find it fascinating, too, and appreciate the updates. It is difficult to know how each individual scout might be ranked against their competitors for an outsider like myself, and there may never really be a way of knowing. Seemed inevitable for personnel shakeups throughout the Brewers organization once Stearns came onboard. Ditto for me. I wonder if the roles might change as much as who fills the roles. If we are going to be more stat driven in player development/acquisition then it stands to reason some of the scouting roles will change to reflect that. Perhaps the number of positions remain the same but what each person does changes. It would be great if we can find out what background the new guys have to get some idea how the scouting and player development departments will operate.

I think it's more semantics than anything. If the goal is to get the best deal for your team then the goal is not to rip off the other team by definition. That said, it also means not ripping off the other team should be of no concern in making a trade.

Yes they would have had to acquire more pitching, similar to the Royals, in order to make it work. Evidently Odorizzi plus an Outfield talent (Gomez maybe) equaled Shields & Wade Davis. They certainly would have enough money from not having to pay Aramis Ramirez and K-Rod that they could have signed a better pitcher than Garza. I don't have all the answers, and I recognize that hindsight is 20/20. I do know that if you look at the Brewers & Royals franchises in the moments prior to the Greinke trade, one team really got things right since then and one team, over & over again, really didn't. And, in terms of this thread, I see Gord Ash as a significant part of the Brewers front office that handled their window with incredible ineptitude (Betancourt? Really?!) Cain is a much much better player than all of them right now and in the 2015 season (and only someone wearing "Brewers Goggles" will say Braun is better than Cain when you factor in defense, baserunning & durability). And Cain has been a a much better player than all of them over time except Braun. I mean, c'mon now really? Aoki? Hart? Morgan? Those guys are garbage compared to Cain. The Brewers failure to recognize that kind of thing doomed them. The Brewers' failure to emphasize defense over the last bunch of years has also doomed them. I will, however, be reasonably assured that the Brewers knew how talented Cain & Escobar were and just were so single-mindedly focused on getting Greinke that they gave up the future for the 2+ years of Greinke (the "+" being Segura, Hellweg etc) I don't think it takes Brewers Goggles to think Corey Hart's career OPS of 806 is superior to Cain's 754. In fact given this is Cain's first season with an OPS above Hart's career average I'd say Cain has a way to go for his career to be as productive as Hart's was. While I think Cain was a better defender than Hart I don't think it was so much superior to make up for 50 points of OPS.

If you choose to look at his entire career it looks like Dave Bush or Jeff Suppan.

There is also the randomness factor which can play a big factor at times. KC easily could have lost to Houston down 6-2 in the 8th inning and a bunch of seeing eye singles and a bad hop on a potential double play ball kept them alive. FWIW, i'm not saying KC was a lucky champion. I thought they were very deserving of the title, but often teams need some luck on their way to a ring. Going forward, yet again a playoff team with a top tier bullpen won it all. This is a trend, not a fluke. Teams need a good rotation to get through the grind of a 162 game schedule and thus secure a berth into the playoffs, but i believe we've now reached a point in today's version of baseball where in the playoffs, having a top tier bullpen is nearly as important or maybe even as important as who your starters are so long a team has at least one really good starter. I'm with you on that. I think part of it is the relievers are so much more used to being put in early and often than they used to be. Getting used a lot in the post season isn't as out of their regular routine.

By admitting he might not have been as bad at his job as you thought he was. Personally I was always a Ned supporter. Then again I never thought in-game management, which definitely isn't his strength, was not all that important. I think the fact he lead the team to two consecutive WS appearances and won one supports that belief. You don't luck your way into two consecutive World Series appearances nor is the team so unbelievably talented that it could do so despite him.

Same. Teams are always looking for good, cheap relievers. Add him as a piece in a trade to extract more value or trade him by himself. I bet we could get a pretty good piece for him. Same goes for Jeffress and any other reliever we have. i have two issues with this line of thinking. 1- If they cost a decent player they are no longer cheap. 2- Teams will give up more for a middle of the road starter than a very good reliever. If you want to maximize his trade value you should try him as a starter. Teams already know he is a decent reliever. If he can start as well his value goes way up.

I don't think any of the other young guys should block Smith from getting a shot in the rotation. They all have options left or can pitch in the pen as well. Having a lefty in the rotation is nice and if he can handle it becomes a much better trade asset.

Gonna be hard to top last night. Wonder who the extra innings hurts more. The Mets don't have nearly the bullpen the Royals do but if both pens get thin the Mets superior starting pitching might negate that advantage. Last night I saw Bartolo Colon for the first time this year when he as warming up in the pen. My first thought was why were they showing Don Zimmer warming up?

How is the Houston/Chicago model any different than how Milwaukee built it's last contending team? Or any different than Pittsburgh attempted about five times before they finally got it right. Don't get me wrong I think we have to rebuild to an extent. I just don't know if it makes any more sense to trade everyone and anyone than it does to try to retain some of them and build a competitive team in less than the five year plus total rebuild mode. Both Chicago and Houston have their holes as well. Thus the need to sign Lester or trade for Gomez. I also wonder if the future is any brighter for those two franchises than it was for Milwaukee in 2008 if they can't buy what they failed to draft and develop. An injury or two to the wrong players would set back a five year rebuild back as far as a two or three year one would.

I think it's less about not winning this season as much as it is failing to win three seasons in a row. Fair or not usually that leads to the manager being released. Personally I think it's more fair to fire him for not winning with good players than it is to fire mangers who fail to win with a terrible roster.

My Nephew just got his first apartment and he didn't even consider cable. He has the money for it but just doesn't want to spend it on cable. I think that is more of the norm than just old or poor people.

While that may be true how does that help MLB create a larger fan base? It may help cable keep a few customers which is good for them but I don't see how that helps baseball. I also think the avid fans would just listen to the games. Unlike most sports, especially football, baseball is as entertaining to listen to as to watch. So I am not even sure cable is getting much customer retention based on having the games.

I agree that is why they are going to cable route but I think it is short sighted. It is hard to grow the sport when fewer people can watch the post season. There are a lot of sports fans who really don't follow baseball as much as they do other sports. How else do you get a sports fan who isn't all that into baseball if they can never see the best the sport has to offer?

I wouldn't look at this as any sort of trend by Stearns. Nothing states he has to be kept on the 40 man if someone better comes along. The chances of him remaining on the 40 man roster is probably 50/50 at best. By adding him now it gives us a chance to keep him in the organization if he's waived and clears waivers. Had we not used that spot on him now we would have basically wasted a small chance of finding a nugget for nothing.

Isn't the manager is usually responsible for assembling his staff? I hope Stearns leaves that sort of thing to the manager. After all Counsell is the one who has to work with them. Not to mention it's his job on the line if the coaches fail. It would also explain why there was no waiting around after the season to decide who stayed and who left. Stearns is just starting to know the entire organization's staff so I am not sure he could have made those evaluations so quickly. Counsell knew all the needed to by now so no need to wait.

I don't see why someone like Nelson or Peralta couldn't have the same type of season as any of the other guys you mentioned had. I think there is a difference between being an ace and having an ace like season. We certainly do have the pitching that can have that type of season even if their career isn't ace like. I'd also don't see any reason that Nelson shouldn't be able to go toe to toe with the likes of Kershaw for one game. After all it isn't like Kershaw hasn't been beat in the playoffs by lesser pitchers before. He's actually been fairly awful in the playoffs so far. As Brewer fans we know all too well Greinke hasn't exactly lit the world on fire in the post season either. It's one game anyone can be an ace for a day. Even Suppan was an ace for a day. The difference between a true ace and a good #2 isn't what they do in one game or even one season. It's what they do over a career. I don't really think that is relevant to post season hopes.

I am assuming you mean that we should have done so because you felt we shouldn't have fooled ourselves into thinking we had a chance to win these past couple seasons. While we can debate whether the team had an actual chance to win I don't know why anyone would be in favor of trading players who could help us win a pennant just because they are at peak value.

No they should actually hit them every time. Then come out after the game and say we would never do that to someone from another team but since the Cards want to play that way it forces us to play the same way. If anything is going to get them to stop this whole tit for tat crap is a few bruises that wouldn't have happened if they were on any other team.