The stache

Apparently, Braun needs some more days off....again. He's hit like ____ for the last two weeks. Genius move sliding into the wall in a meaningless game. Genius.

The Brewers have struck out 19 times tonight. That's embarrassing.

Thank God. I hope this is true. Thanks for the post, 1992casey.

He played in 145 games in 2014, so not sure why that is even an issue. That's understandable. '15, too. You get nailed by a pitch, and something gets broken, nothing you can really do about that. What about the 39 games he missed in 2012? The 46 games he missed in 2013? The 59 games he'll miss this season because of a groin injury. Really? I don't blame him for the time missed because of the beanings. But these other times he's missed, you have to wonder.

Stanton just cannot stay healthy. All the talent/prodigious power means nothing if he can't stay on the field. Since 2011, when he played 150 games, he's missed 204 games. Now he'll miss the last 45 games, making it 249 games missed in 5 years. 249 games missed of a possible 810. Almost 1 in every 3 games, he's not on the field...the last five seasons. And he's 26 now. The Marlins signed him to a 13 year, $325 million contract last year. That's a kind of stupid you just can't justify.

He is. He's been obscene in August, his slash line right now is .458 OBP/1.000 SLG/1.458 OPS. 8 HR and 19 RBI in his last 11 games. He's the hottest hitter in the game right now.

Brauny is just ridiculous right now, isn't he? Love it. Not an All Star, LMAO. Right.

Braun is absolutely mashing right now. He's clearly seeing the ball really well. Last ten games, he's 12 for 33 (.364) with 9 runs scored, 5 home runs, 12 RBI, 2 SB, and most impressively, to me, is his walk to K ratio. 10 BB vs 5 Ks. That gives him a slash line of .500 OBP/.818 SLG/1.318 OPS, and a 255 OPS + prior to park adjustments, over that ten game span. Really fantastic stuff. Right now, his 146 OPS + for the season would tie for the 4th best of his career.

Broxton having a great game. And Braun has definitely found his power stroke. A walk, 3 for 4 with 2 HR, 3 runs, 7 RBI and a SB. 5 HR and 5 SB in the last ten games. Couple of really nice nights.

Exactly. I temper my view of Arcia's AAA performance with knowledge that he was 5 years younger than the average competition. He's good enough defensively that he can play now, get comfortable at the Major League level, and work on his hitting as he goes. His glove immediately makes us better. When was the last time we had a perennial Gold Glove talent in Milwaukee?

"Hope is kindled."

I'd love to see Jeremy back in Milwaukee when we are competitive again. He's really turned it around, and I wish him nothing but the best of luck in Texas. I remember how excited I was to hear he was coming back here. I bought these within an hour of hearing. http://i.imgur.com/vrXai3m.jpg I always loved his potential, and he really turned his life around. Now, they'll just sit in my PC, hoping one day we can get him back home. Thank you, Jeremy!!!!

Braun has a real legit shot at another 20-20 season with his recent production. And, I'm really looking forward to the day when he hits career home run #300 as a Brewer. We have to have little things to look forward to, as it's going to be rough going for a while.

Arcia will be fine. He's done enough hitting in the minors to impress scouts with his potential. Tweak his stance, his approach a little, and the kid will hit.

Days when Braun isn't in the lineup, especially. Out 5-8 hitters today are hitting .219, .219, .000 (small sample, but I'm greatly concerned about Arcia's approach at the plate), and .250. We're losing 11-0 to a team 15 games below .500. At this rate, we might yet challenge for the #1 pick.

You know what? I'm about to the point where I don't even want to bother with this anymore. I give up. You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink. I've already demonstrated that WAR considers everything you've mentioned--base running (not just stealing), hitting, fielding... and when the totality of Ichiro's career is considered alongside the totality of Greenberg's career, WAR finds that they contributed nearly an identical number of wins to their teams. But Ichiro played 1,047 more games! Can't you get that? Ichiro has had 9,544 at bats in his career. If Greenberg had the same number of at bats, he'd have 2,992 hits, 697 doubles, 608 home runs, and 2,341 RBI. And actually, those figures are a little low, because he was forced to give up four years of his prime to serve in World War II, age 30-34. By the way, Ichiro was 30 years old when he hit .372. What do you think Greenberg would have done? In 1940, his last season before going off to join the Army, he hit .340, scored 129 runs, had 195 hits, 50 doubles, 8 triples, 41 home runs, 150 RBI, 93 walks, 75 strikeouts, and a slash line of .433/.670/1.103. He was the American League MVP in 1940. At the time, he already had the second highest single season home run total in history when he hit 58 home runs in 1938. Hitting for average and tremendous power >>>>>> hitting for average, no power, stealing bases, and playing very good defense. And....it.....is.....not.....even.....close. Greenberg had an 80 hit tool. He had 80 power. In all of Major League Baseball, between 1934 and 1940--even seasons--only Jimmie Foxx had more home runs (278) than Greenberg's 235. And that's only because Greenberg broke his wrist in a collision in early April. He only got 46 at bats. Nobody in Major League Baseball drove in more runs than Greenberg between 1934 and 1940. His 916 RBI beats out Foxx's 914, even though Foxx played in 107 more games. Look at his extra base hit totals: 1934 (age 23): 63 doubles, 7 triples, 26 home runs. 96 extra base hits 1935: 46 doubles, 16 triples, 36 home runs. 98 extra base hits. 1937: 49 doubles, 14 triples, 40 home runs. 103 extra base hits. 1938: 23 doubles, 4 triples, 58 home runs. 85 extra base hits. 1939: 42 doubles, 7 triples, 33 home runs. 82 extra base hits. 1940: 50 doubles, 8 triples, 41 home runs. 99 extra base hits. You talk about Ichiro's 10 seasons in a row with 200 hits. How about Greenberg's six season in a row with a 1.000 + OPS? That is an accomplishment. You can't merely play "pretty good", get a lot of at bats, and reach a 1.000 OPS. His career OPS is 1.017. That's the sixth best in Major League history. Look at this list: Career OPS leaders: 1. Babe Ruth, 1.1636 2. Ted Williams, 1.1155 3. Lou Gehrig, 1.0798 4. Barry Bonds, 1.0512 5. Jimmie Foxx, 1.0376 6. Hank Greenberg, 1.0169 7. Rogers Hornsby, 1.0103 8. Manny Ramirez, .9960 9. Mark McGwire, .9823 10. Mickey Mantle, .9773 11. Joe DiMaggio, .9771 12. Stan Musial, .9757 When you're on an all-time list, and only Babe Ruth, Ted Williams, Lou Gehrig, Barry Bonds and Jimmie Foxx are ahead of you, you are an immortal player. There is no discussion. Period. Saying that Ichiro is a better player than Hank Greenberg is indefensible. I'm done.

Yeah, right. I was saving room for Ichiro. Ichiro still isn't one of the top 50 position players of all-time, either. If he'd had halfway decent power production (and by that, I mean doubles and triples), he probably would have made it. But getting 24 doubles in 762 plate appearances is pathetic.

I place a very high value on defense, and value, though not as high, on base stealing. If a great player is a base stealer, too, that enhances their value. How is Ichiro an all-time great defender? He has a 4.4 career dWAR, and those metrics are configured from observation during the sabermetric era. This isn't some player from 40 years ago, where they're having to rely on outdated stats, and incomplete records, to formulate it. Ichiro has had one season above a 2.0 dWAR--2004. And no matter how good his fielding is, which is debatable, it doesn't make up for a decade and a half of dinking the ball around with your bat. Again, not to impugn him as a pure hitter, but there are too damned many .300 career hitters with high career OPS statistics. Ichiro isn't one of 'em. That's why he's not one of the top 50 players of all-time. How and the heck can you put Shoeless Joe Jackson, the man with the third highest batting average in history, in the third tier? He hit .356 with a 170 career OPS +. And Hank Greenberg in your third tier....????I'm sorry, but that's ridiculous. Greenberg is one of the greatest power hitters in history. He had a career OPS over 1.000! And no Johnny Mize. He didn't even make your list. He's a vastly superior player to Ichiro, too. And, no, I'm sorry, but Ichiro's stealing one base every five games, and playing solid defense in no way makes up for his absolute dearth in power. Why do you think Ichiro, with defense, base stealing, and hitting all considered, has a career WAR of 59.9, while Greenberg, with all of the same considered, has a career WAR of 57.5? By the way, that extra 2.4 wins Ichiro has been worth over Greenberg....came by way of his playing an extra 1,046 games. They have virtually identical career batting averages; in fact, they're right next to each other on the all-time leader board. Ichiro at .3139, and Greenberg at .3135. You're going to try and tell me that 500 stolen bases in roughly 2,450 games, and above average defense compensates for Greenberg's massive power production? His career 162 game averages: .313 AVG, 122 runs, 189 hits, 44 doubles, 8 triples, 38 home runs, 148 RBI, and a slash line of .412 OBP/.602 SLG/1.014 OPS. Ichiro could have had a jet pack with him in the outfield, using it to fly in the air and catch balls headed for the seats, and he still wouldn't have been more valuable that Greenberg.

Shipley really intrigues me as a pitcher.

Is this a discussion of the 50 greatest Major League players in history, or the 50 greatest baseball players? Because, if it's strictly Major League, then 1.) Josh Gibson doesn't belong in the discussion, no matter how great he was in the Negro Leagues, and 2.) Ichiro's accomplishments in Japan are, again, irrelevant because they didn't happen while he was in the Major Leagues. If it's greatest baseball players of all-time, then I'd put Josh Gibson on my list of 60 better than Ichiro. And, if Josh Gibson is on there, then Satchel Paige sure as heck better be on there, too, and he was better than Ichiro ever was. And since "greatest baseball player of all-time" would be all inclusive, better start including players like Cuba's Omar Linares, and Japan's Sadaharu Oh. And both these guys make the list ahead of Ichiro, and there are more. Then we start looking at players like Oscar Charleston, Cool Papa Bell, Smokey Joe Williams, and Leon Day. Hell, better include Monte Irvin, too. 'Cause even though Negro League statistics are far from complete, the game records they do have from the Negro Leagues show Irvin was a career .954 OPS hitter. So, however we do this, Ichiro doesn't crack the top 50 list, especially when we don't exclude pitchers. If you want to say that Ichiro is one of the 50 best pure hitters in MLB history, you wouldn't get an argument from me, guys. There is evidence to support that. But "best player" is all inclusive. And in baseball, nothing is more important to scoring than hitting for power. A player that hits for power and average trumps all.

Um, pitchers? Hello? Walter Johnson Cy Young Christy Mathewson Pete Alexander Warren Spahn Lefty Grove Steve Carlton Tom Seaver Pedro Martinez Roger Clemens Greg Maddux Bob Gibson Sandy Koufax Just for starters

This whole "what if" line of thinking is ridiculous. What if Ichiro had played those first seven seasons in the Majors. Yeah. What if Tony Conigliaro hadn't gotten beaned in the head. He might have hit 500 home runs. What it Herb Score hadn't been hit by a line drive. He might have struck out 4,000 batters. What if Roberto Clemente hadn't gotten on that plane? He might have gotten 3,500 to 4,000 hits. What if the color barrier had been broken earlier? Jackie Robinson might have gotten 3,000 hits. Forget what he did in Japan. It is irrelevant. How many times do I have to say that? Their professional baseball league is somewhere between our AA and AAA. Hey, why don't we just start tacking on the numbers of every player in AA and AAA when we're talking about what they've done in the bigs. Sure! It blows my mind how people are so quick to point out what he did in Japan, but completely ignore the massive drop he realized in offensive production once he got here. He was never....NEVER....one of the top 15 hitters in his league by OPS. That he hit .372 in a season, and couldn't crack the top 15 speaks volumes about how limited an offensive player he was. He was a lead off hitter. So what? How does that excuse the fact that he was nothing but a dink hitter for his career? Lead hitters can't have any power? Even if he's not hitting home runs, with the incredible speed Ichiro has, he could only muster 349 doubles, and 92 triples in over 10,000 plate appearances? 242 hits as a rookie. 34 doubles. 262 hits in 2004. 24 doubles. 224 hits in 2006. 20 doubles. 238 hits in 2007. 22 doubles. 213 hits in 2008. 20 doubles. I'm sorry, but that's pathetic. And this is in his prime. Here are not fifty, but sixty Major League players who had vastly superior careers to Ichiro, and if Ichiro Suzuki is on your all-time list before any of these men, you need to rework your list. Note that this is not based on WAR, though there are many players with a higher career WAR than Ichiro. There are also players with a lower career WAR, or a career WAR very close to Ichiros, that blow Ichiro out of the water as players. Men like Shoeless Joe Jackson, Hank Greenberg, Ed Walsh or Johnny Mize. Men who had shorter careers because of either injury, or because of military service during the war. Ty Cobb Babe Ruth Hank Aaron Ted Williams Walter Johnson Christy Mathewson Mike Schmidt George Brett Roberto Clemente Willie Mays Mel Ott Lou Gehrig Joe DiMaggio Mickey Mantle Tom Seaver Warren Spahn Steve Carlton Al Kaline Bob Gibson Stan Musial Bob Feller Eddie Collins Lefty Grove Barry Bonds Rogers Hornsby Frank Robinson Jimmie Foxx Carl Yastrzemski Honus Wagner Eddie Mathews Honus Wagner Tris Speaker Eddie Plank Cy Young Napolean Lajoie Shoeless Joe Jackson Johnny Bench Johnny Mize Randy Johnson Tris Speaker Rickey Henderson Pedro Martinez Greg Maddux Sandy Koufax Ken Griffey Jr Cap Anson Alex Rodriguez Hank Greenberg Ed Walsh Miguel Cabrera Grover Cleveland Alexander Ernie Banks Al Simmons Duke Snider Reggie Jackson Roger Clemens Jackie Robinson Nolan Ryan Albert Pujols Joe Morgan

Oh, come on. The reason Ichiro got over 200 hits in ten straight seasons is because he averaged 734 plate appearances a season between 2001 and 2010. And, because he walks so little, he averaged a whopping 685 at bats each season. A Major League hitter can hit .292 with 685 at bats, and still get 200 hits. In several of those seasons, he played at a high level, knocking out singles at an unprecedented rate, and hitting for high average in the process. In 2004, for example, he hit .372, winning his second and final batting title. Great average. But of his now single-season Major League record 262 hits, 225 were singles. He hit 24 doubles, 5 triples, and 8 home runs....in 704 at bats. That is a perfect example of why he is not a top 50 player in baseball history. 37 extra base hits in 762 plate appearances! What about the other nine seasons where he got 200 hits? Let's look at them. In 2003, he hit .312. Good season average wise, nothing special. But he got 200 hits (212 to be exact) because he came to the plate 725 times! He got 679 at bats to get those 200 hits with. 2005? The sixth season of his ten in a row. The "streak" should have been stopped. He hit .303. Yet, again, he got 200 + hits, again (206 to be exact). Why? Because of the sheer number of times he came to the plate. He came to bat 739 times, and his 679 at bats, again, lead the American League. Know how many players in the history of Major League Baseball have had 200 hits with a .303 batting average? Three. Taylor Douthit had 201 hits in 1930, and Doc Cramer had 200 hits in 1940. They had 664 and 661 at bats, respectively. Ichiro hit .310 in 2008. Again, a pretty good season, from a purely average perspective. He led the American League with 213 hits. At that average, one would need 646 at bats to get 200 hits. Ichiro came to the plate 749 times; 686 at bats. And his extra base tallies? 20 doubles, 7 triples, and 6 home runs. 33 extra base hits....in 686 at bats. His SLG (.386) barely cleared his OBP (.361). He was, basically, a Major League Average hitting in 2008 with a 102 OPS +. Hardly a season that should warrant any kind of wonder. But because he was a leadoff hitter, and had a gargantuan number of plate appearances, he kept his "streak" alive. One single at a time. Most guys hitting .310, or .312, aren't going to get 200 hits. And they sure as hell aren't going to get there hitting .303. But Ichiro did. But don't try to convince me that this is some remarkable feat. If Tony Gwynn had averaged even 650 at bats between 1984 and 1997, he'd have hit for 200 + in fourteen straight seasons. And, unlike Ichiro's two batting titles (which is still good, mind you), Gwynn won eight titles. And, his offensive production was 35% above Major League average, while Ichiro's was merely 17% (135 OPS + vs 117 OPS +) Franco only has 3870... over 32!!!! years. thats insane, 32 years! but you're right, the rest are all over 4000... and four of them are considered to be hands down the best, right? not sure why Ichiro wouldn't fit in with them as a top all time baseball player. Because Ichiro is so incredibly limited as a hitter. That's why. And comparing Ichiro as a hitter to Ty Cobb, Hank Aaron and Stan Musial is simply foolish. There is no comparison. Ty Cobb has a 168 career OPS +, 10th best all-time. Stan Musial's 158 in 15th best, and Hank Aaron's 155 is 23rd best. Ichiro's 108 OPS + is 788th all-time. He's never been a true offensive weapon in the Major Leagues. He's been a great pure hitter, there is no question. Nobody gets to 3,000 hits without being just that. But all he's done is hit singles. And, when there are so many players who have played the game at an incredibly high level, and have done so much more than just hit singles, you're not going to be one of the top 50 players of all-time. There have been 27 players in Major League history to have 2,995 or more hits. Of these men, Ichiro has by far the fewest extra base hits. 554 extra base hits in 10,305 plate appearances. Next lowest on the totem pole is Rod Carew at 649. That's 17% more extra base hits than Ichiro. Only, Carew won seven batting titles, and was, in his prime, one of the premier hitters in the Major from an OPS + standpoint. Carew led the Majors in 1977 with a 178 OPS +, 10 points higher than the next best finisher, Reggie Smith of the Dodgers (168). Carew was also top 5 in the American in OPS + five times. Ichiro never made the top 10 in his league in OPS +. Not once. Here's his 2001 to 2010 run, when he had 200 + hits in each season. Here's where he finished in the American League in OPS + each year: 2001 22nd 126 2002 28th 120 2003 40th 112 2004 16th 130 2005 33rd 113 2006 48th 106 2007 21st 122 2008 51st 102 2009 18th 129 2010 30th 113 OPS + is, in my opinion, one of the very best metrics for measuring offensive production, as it weighs a player's ability to get on base, and their power production. That figure is then adjusted based on the ballparks they have played in. It is a simple comparative metric for players in the same season (again, a 100 OPS + is Major League average). Ichiro finished in the top twenty hitters in the American League twice during his ten year peak. He never even made it into the top 15; in 2004, he was 16th best in the American League, and in 2009, he was 18th best. In 2004, his 130 OPS + was 34th best in the Major Leagues, and in 2009, his 129 OPS + was the 37th best hitter in the Major Leagues. I'm sorry, but Ichiro, at no point in his career, was one of the top 30 best overall hitters in the Majors. How, then, can he be considered one of the 50 best players in Major League Baseball history? Yes, he gets some additional consideration for his base stealing. But they don't nearly make up for the incredible lack of power he's displayed since he came up in 2001. His talent has never waned? Between 2001 and 2010, he was a fine pure hitter. The last six seasons, he's been a .272 hitter. His OPS + between 2011 and 2016 has been 85. He's been 15% below Major League average as a hitter these last six years. To put this in perspective, Ozzie Smith had a career 87 OPS +. He's been the Wizard of Oz with the stick for better than the last half decade. He hit .229 in 398 at bats last season. If the Marlins weren't so awful last season, he wouldn't have cracked the lineup, and he sure wouldn't be chasing 3,000 hits now. He's been worth 5.4 WAR these last six seasons, worth less than 1 win per season. He's not even Major League starter average, by that metric. He's rebounded nicely this year, no doubt. He's hitting singles at a furious rate (his OBP, .419, is higher than his SLG, which is an anemic .399). 8 doubles and 1 triple in 178 at bats. But he's sputtering to the mark the same way that Pete Rose sputtered to breaking Ty Cobb's all-time hits mark. And stop combining his Japanese numbers and Major League numbers. Just...stop. They're completely irrelevant. Two different leagues, two different levels of competition. He had a .943 career OPS in Japan, which is 180 points higher than his career .763 OPS here in the bigs. He homered once every 30.7 at bats in Japan 118 home runs in 3,619 at bats). In the Majors? He homers once every 84.4 at bats (113 home runs in 9.540 at bats). Apples and oranges. The bottom line is that Ichiro will be a Hall of Famer. He'll get his 3,000 hits, though he probably should have been out of the Majors after last year's 57 OPS +. But is he one of the top 50 players in Major League history? Nope. Not even close, really. And that's not my "opinion". The statement is supported by statistical analysis. That analysis, against the immortals of the game, shows that Ichiro, though a great pure hitter, brought very little to the table as an offensive performer. He just doesn't measure up.

Exactly. Succinctly put.

Um, no, rankings are not opinion based. Baseball, more than any other professional sport, lends itself to statistical analysis. And while the game itself does change over time (dead ball era vs live ball era, adjustments to the height of the pitching mound), the field of play itself hasn't changed in the lifetime of anybody still breathing. Nothing I stated is based on opinion, or emotion. My rankings are based on empirical data. These numbers have been recorded after every game, and player rankings are based on observable behavior over several years. Now, there may be some argument over ordering of players. But the basic framework cannot be argued if the numbers do not support such argument. And I'm not even going to comment on your listing Bonds as the #1 player of all-time.