KeithStone53151
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Everything posted by KeithStone53151
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+1
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This seems like exactly what many of us think and expected should happen, now hopefully everyone can move on.
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From Stearns
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From MLB.
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Absolutely, and that's my point. Jeffress/Cain don't have any obligation to make the comments they are making and defend Hader. Look at some of the comments from Vick, Mccoy, other black players on the Eagles in regards to Cooper. They didn't brush it aside for the good of the team. Cain/Jeffress are defending Hader, and that speaks volumes for me. To be fair, it also doesn't prove anything that Cain/Jeffress say he's a good person. He probably is, I hope he is. But if still DOES feel this way about various group, pretty sure he wouldn't be sharing it with them right? It certainly isn't any sort of proof, but I'd consider those guys in a much better position to judge his true character than any of us from our computers looking at 7 year old tweets. If there were any signs that those tweets were his current character, I doubt you see supportive comments from those 2 guys.
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Absolutely, and that's my point. Jeffress/Cain don't have any obligation to make the comments they are making and defend Hader. Look at some of the comments from Vick, Mccoy, other black players on the Eagles in regards to Cooper. They didn't brush it aside for the good of the team. Cain/Jeffress are defending Hader, and that speaks volumes for me.
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No, it's not all about destroying people. It's about a person saying some really hateful things and being held accountable for it. It's not a witch hunt, he said these things. And throughout his professional career as an adult knew that stuff was out there and wasn't bothered by it enough to get rid of it. I agree there's a difference between saying it when you're 17 vs 23. But from many of the posts I've seen, it sounds like people dismiss it completely because he was 17. I don't. As I said earlier, all we can do is hope he really has changed- for his own sake. Also we dismiss it based on how his teammates reacted and the way he's carried himself that we've seen. He doesn't appear to be anything like the twitter mentions. And going through the exercise of digging through tweets 7 years ago is basically a witch hunt. You can bet your bottom dollar that every player/agent/team is digging through all their old twitter/facebook/whatever to make sure nothing like this happens with anyone else...because tons of people(fans/media/etc) are doing the same thing trying to find similar stuff to what they found on Hader so they can blast it out and try to destroy more people's lives.
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Does anyone remember how Riley Cooper's black teammates responded when he was caught on videos saying extremely racist stuff? It was nowhere near how Jeffress/Cain are reacting, dude was immediately condemned and those relationships were broken. So saying they had to support him is 100% false.
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I think he should be suspended. If it's 3 days or 30 days, it doesn't really matter to me. Otherwise it sends a message to minority groups that MLB is tolerant to players with a history of bigotry. Suspend somebody for things they said 7 years ago as a minor, before he was involved in baseball. Good thing you aren't making the decisions.
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I think most on the board also agree it was lazy/stupid/shocking that he didn't delete that stuff...or his agent/the brewers didn't think to make that stuff go away. Probably out of sight, out of mind type of thing.
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I've been mentally wrestling with this question all morning. Which is worse, harboring hatred or ruining someone's reputation? It's possible that Hader has moved on from the thoughts in his tweets. It is unlikely that the muckrakers and tweet-fakers have moved on from their ruinous desire. It really isn't up for dispute in my opinion. Harboring hatred is far far worse. I also believe Hader has changed significantly as a person from age 17 to age 24(as literally everyone does) and doesn't harbor that hatred any more. If any of these tweets were recent, or had any similar commentary in the last couple years...I think you'd see a far different reaction from myself and pretty much everyone on the board. People do really really stupid stuff as a teenager. Many people commit crimes, intense bullying in high schools, sex, drugs, etc...the things people are pressured into directly or indirectly during those years is crazy to think about.
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I've been mentally wrestling with this question all morning. Which is worse, harboring hatred or ruining someone's reputation? It's possible that Hader has moved on from the thoughts in his tweets. It is unlikely that the muckrakers and tweet-fakers have moved on from their ruinous desire. It really isn't up for dispute in my opinion. Harboring hatred is far far worse. I also believe Hader has changed significantly as a person from age 17 to age 24(as literally everyone does) and doesn't harbor that hatred any more. If any of these tweets were recent, or had any similar commentary in the last couple years...I think you'd see a far different reaction from myself and pretty much everyone on the board. People do really really stupid stuff as a teenager. Many people commit crimes, intense bullying in high schools, sex, drugs, etc...the things people are pressured into directly or indirectly during those years is crazy to think about.
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All sorts of training/apologies/corrective action. No way should he get any sort of fine or suspension.
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Yeah, this is pretty salient to me. You can't call it out because then you're "defending" Hader or whoever said them. But it's a totally valid point. The people leading these crusades are not out for behavior correction or anything noble. They want people to burn. Most of the time they won't accept any apology, any course of corrective behavior and want no part of redemption. They want blood. It's all over the Internet and has permeated our culture today. Exactly my thoughts, coulnd't have said it better, well done.
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If Hader said any of these things as an adult, after being drafted/signed...I think there might be some cause for disciplinary action. I think anything before that should be off limits for suspension purposes.
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I generally am on your side, but MLB without question has to say or do something about it. Condemn the words publicly, sit down with Josh, etc. I would find it wildly ridiculous if he was suspended or fined for tweets he made as a legal minor.
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WOW 2 YEARS AGO. If that isn't a doctored screenshot, man... Unacceptable. Just trash. Apologies are great and all, but they don't mean much when you spew this kind of bile for years. I don't want to root for this guy anymore. Ok I believe the image in that tweet has been determined to be fake. Has it been? I have a hard time believing a tweet at that point in time while he was an extremely successful minor leaguer wouldn't have immediately been scooped up by umpteen reporters following him on twitter.
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Above all else? Good to know that you value baseball games more than human decency. And of course his teammates will defend him and say that's not who he is, that's how it always works. I was trying to figure out how to properly explain my thoughts on this, and then Heyman did it pretty much spot on for me. I firmly believe he's not as hateful as his tweets make him seem, and that he's grown significantly over the last 7 years and is a completely different person now with a completely different set of beliefs. I anticipate the fallout being pretty brutal for him, and he generally seems like a good dude that probably ran with the wrong crowd as a teenager.
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Obviously these comments aren't something you'd like to see, but to damn a young player for things he said at age 17 is a bit surprising. I'm in my early 30s and I remember how kids were and the things kids said and did. Especially immature teenagers, can say and do things without truly understanding what they mean or the implications of their actions. I imagine it's only gotten worse with social media. With how much he's grown from age 17 until now and the relationships he has with the Brewers players, I believe him when he says it doesn't reflect his beliefs now. I think we'll learn an awful lot by the type of support Josh receives from the players and especially veterans/team leaders like Jeffress, Cain, Thames, Braun, etc. For me, above all else, I hope it doesn't affect his pitching down the stretch.
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Manny Machado (Part 2)
KeithStone53151 replied to PDCBalla's topic in Transaction Rumors & Proposals
I am far from a prospect hugger on this site, but you realize the trade deadline isn't for 2 weeks yet right? I'd prefer we not shoot for the wild card game or a 1st round sweep and let the right deal fall into our laps like Yelich did. A majority of our best prospects and guys likely to be included in this trade are mlb ready guys. They are sorta/kinda prospects, but there isn't a ton of risk left with the guys likely included in the trade. -
Manny Machado (Part 2)
KeithStone53151 replied to PDCBalla's topic in Transaction Rumors & Proposals
I tend to agree with that first part. That 6 game losing streak is pretty fresh, but every team has a tough stretch and we were very worn down and injured during that streak. This break is much needed, and we have a good chance to come out of the break re-vitalized...regardless of whether we land Machado. -
Manny Machado (Part 2)
KeithStone53151 replied to PDCBalla's topic in Transaction Rumors & Proposals
I think the only known thing at this point is that Machado will be traded tomorrow. Seems like the Dodgers are in the lead, but Philly seems to be pretty motivated to get him (may be their only chance of signing him in the future). I have doubts that Stearns will be offering the top package, but like you said; who knows. I personally hope the Brewers are out. I like MM, but not at the prices reported. -
Manny Machado (Part 2)
KeithStone53151 replied to PDCBalla's topic in Transaction Rumors & Proposals
I buy this report...source is good, though it also isn't definitive. -
Manny Machado (Part 2)
KeithStone53151 replied to PDCBalla's topic in Transaction Rumors & Proposals
Dozier is better than all of them and I believe he has been hitting like his old self of late. I think Manny goes for more than you were predicting and I think Dozier does too. Manny is an elite talent, there was no good precedent for what he'd get. Dozier is different, he's marginally better than the guys I mentioned at best. I would actually argue Gennett right now is better than Dozier. -
Manny Machado (Part 2)
KeithStone53151 replied to PDCBalla's topic in Transaction Rumors & Proposals
Dozier will likely cost a fraction of what it costs to trade for MM. Cool. I don't think I buy that narrative. Still a lot of teams looking for infield help and he isn't that much of step down offensively from Machado. Supply and demand. Castro, Gennett, Cabrera to name a couple. Many teams with that need have flexibility to shift guys around the infield to accomodate a player. Dozier isn't playing well and is 2b only. MM can play SS or 3B. Dozier isn't even close to MM.