paul253

Couldn’t have said it better. These guys are about making money and to do so they are putting together a team just good enough to make people think they can be contenders.

I agree. There is this assumption that if I don’t spend money for a baseball game I’ll just go spend the same amount somewhere else. If i am planning on going to a game and spending, say,, $150 on parking and tickets and dinner and beer at a bar ahead of time, and then all of a sudden it falls through for some reason, I am probably more likely to just stay in and save the $150. Or perhaps I’ll go somewhere else, maybe a local beer garden, and spend less than I would have had I go to the game. It’s the same argument that people make when talking about the possibility of an NHL team here. They say “well that’s just money that will be taken away from some other local entertainment option”. Why is it assumed I’ll spend my money on another option vs just saving it?

Regardless of what happens with Machado the Brewers need to do something. We can’t go two years in a row standing pat as everyone else around us gets better.

I think you’re referring to all of major league baseball and I was referring to just the NL. But I don’t see how you can have a team that relies so heavily on their bullpen and claim the rotation is just fine. I’m not saying the offense doesn’t need help too. The talent is there they just need to be more consistent. The rotation is full of overachievers and I’m just worried that they are going to come back to earth one of these days.

I read somewhere the other day that they are 26th in quality starts though because they have a hard time going 6 innings. Relying on 4 innings from the bullpen five or six times a week is a recipe for disaster. THe bullpen is going to wear out. Currently they have three of the top ten relievers in innings pitched.

We had better not give up Hiura for him and no more than one of our top pitching prospects (Burnes, Peralta, Woodruff).

I wonder what it would take to get Matz. He seems to be having a nice bounce back year but admittedly I know nothing about his injury history. I assume he could be had without including Hiura.

I’d rather just hang onto Hiura to see if he can help this year. And if Nottingham keeps it up you’d think he’d have to get a chance too.

My point is that we had the number one ranked system and it took trades for top of rotation pitchers to even sniff the playoffs. Without Sabathka and without Greinke our #1 ranked farm system gets us nothing. People seem like they want to hold onto all of our prospects so that we’ll have a highly ranked system. My point is that ultimately a highly ranked system means squat. Of all the guys we traded only Brantley Cain and Odorizzi had any real success. Jeffress eventually improved after bouncing around KC and Toronto but I highly doubt we’d have been all that much better had hung onto them. The only real argument you can make is that we’d have gotten higher draft picks because the major league team wouldn’t have been as good. I think our middling major league team can be blamed as much on Mark and Doug refusing to deal players that needed to be dealt and instead making desperate moves to try to stay relevant. Absolutely the offense has to get better. But why does it have to be an either or? We can’t improve the offense if we trade for Syndergaard? Any moves we make for the offense will likely be more low key moves. We have established starters at almost every position. Any upgrade we have will likely be more of the Walker/Hairston variety than of the Manny Machado variety. I don’t see why we can’t improve both.

I appreciate the participation. My buddy lives in Atlanta and comes up once a year and we like to do this. I posted the matches here because we let his brother judge and had lunch on the line and his brother had my buddy winning every single match. I thought I got hosed. I won’t say which teams are mine but in the three responses so far I’ve won 2 of 3. Anyone else care to give their opinion?

I’d say after the season yes. Definitely try to move Chacin and/or Guerra to try to restock the system. Assuming Burnes and Peralta are traded for Syndergaard my reasoning is simple: Syndergaard, Woodruff, Chacin, Guerra, Suter, Anderson, Nelson, Davies. That’s 8 pitchers more than capable of starting games, 9 if Burnes and Peralta are still here. Woodruff May never even get a real chance at this point. Depth is fine but it wouldn’t be the worst idea to try to sell high and Guerra or Chacin.

Easy there. He didn’t say Arcia was headlining the deal, just as part of it. I imagine Burnes and Peralta would still be the headliners. And I agree Arcias value is low but didn’t Dubon tear an ACL? Can’t imagine that helped his value.

I appreciate the participation.

So......I’ll start this thread off by fully admitting I’m a dork when it comes to wrestling. I don’t watch it much anymlre but was I was a huge fan in the 80s and 90s, as was my best friend. So last night we decide to draft wrestling teams and have them compete in Survior Series styles matches. His brother judged the teams to see who would win and I’m pretty sure I got hosed big time. I want to post the matches here to see what people think. The key is that every wrestler is in his prime and it’s a survivor series style match. And I apologize for some of the obscure wrestlers. So here goes: Match 1: team 1) The Rock. Stone Cold, Shawn Micheals. Macho Man, Sting Team 2) Hulk Hogan, Ultimate Warrior, Andre the Giant. Undertaker, Goldberg Match 2: Team 1) HHH, Bret Hart, Braun Strowman, AJ Styles, The Giant Team 2) Hall, Nash, Ric Flair, Kurt Angle, Brock Lesner Match 3: Team 1) Yokozuna, DDP, John Cena, CM Punk Roddy Piper Team 2) Samoa Joe, Randy Orton, Seth Rollins, Roman Reigns, Dean Ambrose Match 4: Team 1) Bautista, Chris Benoit, Scott Steiner, Mr Perfect Kane Team 2) Vince, Shane, Edge, Rick Rude, Chris Jericho Match 5: Team 1) Sid Justice, Rey Mysterio, Jeff Hardy, Ken Shamrock, Mick Foley Team 2) Booker T, Lex Luger, Kevin Owens, Bray Wyatt, Daniel Bryan Match 6 (when one member is eliminated the whole team is out Team 1) Legiom of Doom, Steiners, Hart Foundation (Bret and the Anvil), Hardy Boyz, Edge and Christian Team 2) New Age Outlaws, Demolition, Harlem Heat, Team 3D/Dudleyz, Powea kid Pain Match 7) Team 1) Orient Express, Power and Glory, APA, the Rockers, Money Inc Team 2) British Bulldogs, Bludgeon Brothers, Nasty Boys, Beer Money, Strike Force (Santana and Martell) All matches are straight up matches. No cheating. No double crosses. No problems between teammates. I’m a dork but helo me out.

Minor league system rankings ultimately don’t mean anything. Not all that long ago we had the top ranked system. What it got us was one WC and one division title and NLCS appearance. And both only happened because trades prospects for established pitchers. I get that as a small market team we have to build from within. But we can’t overvalue our prospects to the point where we refuse to move any of them. We can’t be afraid to take risks. If we do what will happen is that many of these prospects we are putting so much faith in will flame out and get is nothing. No championship. No trade return. Nothing. We currently have a team that is not only competing but also has almost all of the key pieces under control for years. What we don’t have though is that shutdown pitcher who can consistently stop losing streaks and can shoulder the load in the playoffs.

But Hiura only has something like 110 plate appearances over A ball. The risk is that he hasn’t actually done anything above AA. I surely expect he will, but Rickie Weeks was much more highly rated as a prospect and he only turned out to be an ok major leaguer. It happens. Additionally, as we’ve seen it’s so much easier to draft and develop quality bottom than quality pitching. So while replacing Hiura won’t be easy, it would be much easier than trying to develop your own Syndergaard type pitcher.

We have a ton of options for the rotation next year. Id even maybe try to throw in a guy like Davies if it would maybe get us a lottery ticket prospect too.

It wouldn’t be the worst idea to sell high-ish on Corey Ray. I hated the pick on draft day and still do. Using him to help get Syndergaard would at least get us some return on the pick. Then Hiura and Burnes for 3 1/2 years of Syndergaard? Man I think you have to do it. Then you just have to do a better job drafting. It’s painful looking at box scores for Biloxi and seeing Coulter, Grisham, and Ray’s numbers.

When is the last time we found one? It’s not nearly as easy as you make it seem. In my time as a Brewers fan I remember Ben Sheets, who was a first round pick, and that’s oretty much it.

Hiura is probably the best prospect we’ve had since Ryan Braun. Those guys are hard to find, especially picking later in the draft like the Brewers will be doing for the foreseeable future. But the way baseball economics work it’s darn near implossible for the Brewers to find get a legit top of the rotation pitcher. They have to either draft one, which we haven’t done since Ben Sheets 19 years ago, trade for an established one like we did Sabathka and Greinke, or trade for a prospect who profiles as TOR, which almost nobody is willing to give up now. They sure aren’t signing one. So our options ar very, very limited. It’s hard to find a guy like Hiura in the draft but it’s almost impossible to find a true ace. So if we can get one via trade for 2 1/2 years by giving up a few prospects I think we do it.

A week from tomorrow. Need I say more?

Peraltas resume isn’t even in the same hemisphere as Degrom or Syndergaards. He’s had 3 good starts and one bad one. If you’re going to use three good starts to decide that he’ll be able to pitch at the same level as Degrom or Syndergaard then I don’t know what to say to you.

As much as i would like to see Peralta stay I’d be ok with him going if it got us Degrom or Syndergaard. We have enough bodies to fill the rotation, including a few young cheap homegrown guys. As it is we have no room for Woodruff. What Id love to see is to use to acquire one of the Mets starters then jettison Davies in favor of Woodruff or Burnes next year. Barring injury the rotation would include Degrom, Nelson, Anderson, Chacin and then either Guerra, Burnes or Woodruff. Suter would be the long man. That’s a very decent rotation with a true ace at the top. Good depth too.

Why do people keep saying one year? It’s not one year. It’s two and a half minimum, unless you trade him again and recoup some of the prospects. Also, I would willing to bet my annual salary that at least one of the prospects you trade for, say, Degrom, won’t pan out. Probably more. It’s just the nature of the beast. I LOVE Hiura as a prospect and hate to give him away. But two and half years of one of the best pitchers in baseball is a very tempting trade-off.

I’d still take him. He’d still be an improvement over what we have. That being said, it’d be hard to include Hiura in a deal for him. If we could work out a deal involving Burnes/Peralta, Woodruff, Ray and a younger guy I’d still do it.