paul253

We are most likely going to lose Fielder. I suppose there is an outside chance Hawkins is a Type B free agent so we may end up with 2 or 3 extra picks. I can't imagine it's anywhere as deep as this one, but does anyone know how the 2012 draft is going to shape up?

I didn't want to start a new thread on this but are there any relievers out there that we could trade for that have a good shot at being a Type A free agent? Someone in the Linebrink mold who isn't going to cost us three top prospects?

We can replace Hart or we can't? What I meant was that there are plenty of options should you go the FA route. They probably won't put up the same numbers as Hart but you can certainly get by with them. And you can probably sign one for fairly cheap. It's not like pitching where you need to offer an average to below average player a 3 year deal. And the free agency route is only if you don't have someone internally to replace him with. I'd be fine with Morgan, Gomez, and either Gindl or Komatsu plus another cheap vet in the outfield, especially if this allows us to upgrade at shortstop. If we trade Hart will we replace him with someone who hits .280 with 25 home runs? Probably not. But we could probably find a nice .260 hitter who can put up a similar OBP and makes a third as much money. we still should be a legitimate Division contender next year, but i don't see that we would be if we suddenly replaced two of our three best hitters in the lineup. I'm not sure I'd consider Hart our third best hitter. I think Weeks is better and, horrendous slump aside, McGehee has been just as good the past two years. And while Gamel hasn't been a full time player in Milwaukee yet, he's not your normal prospect. He's been with the big league club several times and is much older and more experienced than your typical prospect would be. Plus you could upgrade at other positions, particularly shortstop. Bentancourt is absolutely worthless. If you take Hart's money and give some of it to Furcal, your lineup would improve a little just by that.

I'll tell you what though if Prince leaves and we still don't resign Greinke or Marcum or both, I'm going to be awfully upset.

Prince is gone after this year. I believed it two years ago and nothing has changed in my mind. I wish it weren't so, but I don't dare hold on to hope. No point in letting myself get deflated later on. As long as he's not playing in the division next year, I'll be fine. This is how I feel. After the game last night I came on here with the idea of starting a "Let's keep Fielder" thread but the fact is we just can't do it. We should be happy that we have someone in Gamel who should be able to put up at least reasonable numbers as his replacement. It's just so important that we resign either Marcum or Greinke or both and we can't do that if we are paying Fielder $22 million every year for 6 years. I am actually thinking they should trade Hart too and take that money to resign both Marcum and Greinke. It's also just as important that we start having better drafts to replace the position players and get some pitchers who are actually capable of pitching in MLB. I'm cautiously optimistic with the Brewers first three picks this year but we still need a lot of help offensively down on the farm. I am just praying that we get 2 first round picks for Fielder but I am not even confident in that because the two teams I keep hearing his name associated with are Baltimore and the Cubs. We're going to end up with a second round pick for him, I just know it.

If that is the case why would anybody trade a player for Hart and take on his contract when they could just sign a platoon that could match or better his production and bring average or better defense? There aren't too many free agents out there capable of hitting .280 with 25 home runs who'd be willing to sign a one year deal for $9 million. Just looking at the FA list maybe Ludwick is capable of hitting 25 HRs. Beltran is a FA but he I'm not sure he'd be willing to take a one year deal. Same with Sizemore. Berkman is having a heck of a year but he'd be a downgrade defensively and is getting up there in age. Other than that the FA pickings are pretty slim for outfielders. I'm not sure you'd be able to find a platoon either that could be as productive as Hart. Hart is a fairly young, fairly established player. Assuming he doesn't go all 2009 on us I think we'd be able to get something pretty decent for him.

That was the argument people used when Miller Park was getting fought over. Another thing to consider though is that weather was also a huge issue in attendance at County Stadium. You can't expect people to sit through games when it is 45 degrees or rainy out. That's not an excuse for the Bucks. They haven't even been in the top half of league attendance in 7 years. A new arena would help but unless they get better the attendance will go right back down. also those who want an MLS team only need to look at how few people went to Milwaukee Rampage and Wave United games. I know the facilities were not great but the MLS was not formed yet and it was the top soccer league in the US and Canada. I would think that if MLS would survive here they should have atleast drew 1000 a game. I think that's a bad comparison. Soccer in the USA really got going after the 1994 World Cup and has been getting more popular since. Saying that since a second divison team who played in a terrible "stadium" couldn't draw fans so neither could a professional team in a state of the art stadium is like comparing apples to oranges I think. That's like saying Milwaukee wouldn't support an NHL team because we only draw 5,700 fans for the Admirals. And not to be technical but MLS formed in 1993 and the Rampage played all the way until 2002. The Wave United only played two seasons I think in 2003 and 2004.

Well, if we got a great offer, I think anyone is tradeable. I just don't think that anyone is going to give us more for Hart than he's worth to us, nor do I think there's anyone in our farm that can reasonably replace him anytime soon. When Atlanta was interested in him last season it was rumored they'd have given us a pretty decent starting pitching prospect wasn't it? Not a top of the line, but a #3/#4ish type guy. That was when Hart's contract expired at the end of the year. He's now under control through 2013 and if we don't insist on pitching I really do think we could get a decent prospect or two back. Maybe a third basemen or possibly even a lower level shortstop? I agree with with TLB. Gindl is holding his own in AAA (.371 OBP and he's still only 22) and Komatsu is more than ready to be moved up there too. I think either one could reasonably replace him next season and if not, you still have Morgan and Gomez. You could always sign a veteran too like Nady, Francoeur, or Burrell. None of them are as good offensively as Hart but if you can take that money and use it on Furcal you have to think who'd you rather have. Hart and Bentacourt at $15 million total or Furcal and Komatsu/Gindl at maybe $8 million total. Plus, the defense would be much better as TLB said.

Hart's contract is actually quite reasonable in relation to his production. I think when you look at the comparable production between him, Werth, and Crawford, and see what kind of money they got versus what we signed Hart for just months prior, I think I'm pretty happy now that we kept him for what we did. I would think this would increase his value to other teams though. Look at what Washington gave Jason Werth ($126 million). The Brewers would still have plenty of power in Weeks and Braun to a lesser extent McGehee and Gamel. Beside, if you put someone in the lineup like Komatsu who is more of a contact hitter and then sign a Furcal you can move away from the over reliance on HRs that Milwaukee has had for years. A lineup of 1) Morgan 2) Furcal 3) Weeks 4) Braun 5) McGehee 6) Gamel 7) Lucroy and 8) Komatsu would be much more balanced I think. Plus, on top of losing Fielder's $15 million salary and Hart's $9 million salary, you'd lose Bentancourt's $6 million too. That could really buy them some financial flexibility until they restock their system.

we are on the verge of loosing a team with established roots in the city that has a following and we want to build a soccer stadium?, lets focus on getting an area under the park east freeway for the bucks, admirals, and marquette instead of messing around with something that i don't think would do well here. Marquette has no problem drawing fans to the very same arena the Bucks say they can't compete in. MU actually drew an average of 174 MORE fans per game than the Bucks last season. Think about that. A team that finished 11th in the Big East averaged more fans than an NBA team that plays in the same arena. Even the Admirals finished in the top third of their league attendance despite competing with the Bucks, Marquette, UWM, the Wave, and to a lesser extend the Packers and Badger basketball and hockey. My point is, I don't think we need to spend $400 million on a new arena when 2/3 of the tenants are drawing fine. The fact is, if the Bucks were winning, there'd be more fans and more money. Having a new arena isn't going to make people like Lebron James want to play in Milwaukee. NBA players want to play in cities where they can go out clubbing and show off their bling. Milwaukee isn't that city. And just to bring it up again, building a brand new soccer stadium would probably cost half as much as building a new arena and would probably be done with mostly private funds. I think if the Bucks leave the Bradley Center could still survive. They could tear down the U.S. Cellular Arena and move the Wave and UWM to the BC. That would leave the BC with Marquette, UWM, The Admirals, the Wave and the Mustangs. while you may not, and while i am not as big follower of the bucks as i am the brewers and packers, the bucks do bring value to the city. They bring money to hotels and restraunts downtown, they also bring a spotlight to the city. There is something to be said for being a major league town in 2 sports to separate us from other communities with similar populations. I think the MLS could do the same thing though. You'll have just as many people downtown, maybe more because the Bucks are barely averaging 15,000. Plus, the weather when the MLS team would play would be better than than when the Bucks play. I think in general people are more willing to stick around and eat and sit outside or just walk around downtown in the spring and summer when the MLS team plays than the late fall and winter when the Bucks play. And don't get me wrong, I'm not saying I WANT the Bucks to leave. I just don't want spend $400 million on a new arena so we can watch the same crappy Bucks team who can't attract quality free agents when we could spend $150 million and bring a new team to Milwaukee in soccer. Plus the stadium would open up so many other possibilities like I mentioned like HS soccer, international soccer and someone else mentioned HS football too. Plus....and you never know....it would give Marquette or UWM a place to play should they ever decide to start up football again. I've heard one of the things preventing MU from doing this is not having anywhere to play.

With all the outfield prospects we have I hope it would be inevitable. He's a good player, don't get me wrong, but I don't think he's that consistent all star type player that someone like Braun and Fielder would be and his loss wouldn't be too hard to overcome. Defensively I guess he's ok but nothing special. And even if someone like Komatsu isn't ready next season, cheap free agent outfielders are usually pretty easy to find. If Hart continues to hit in the .280 range with 20-30 home runs this year, you may be able to get a pretty good prospect or two in return for him this offseason, even if they are lower level prospects which at this point I'd be fine with as long as they are position players. He's still signed for 2 years so he wouldn't be a rental for anyone who takes him. The salary relief would allow the Brewers to either use it to dump Bentancourt and sign a FA shortstop like Furcal or to bank the money to try to put towards resigning Marcum and/or Greinke. Plus the prospect(s) they get in return, even if it just one mid to high ceiling prospect, would really help this depleted system. Just a thought, but I think it help Milwaukee in two ways. 1) Salary relief ($9m in 2012 and $10m in 2013) 2) Prospects to help restock the system. Any thoughts?

I subscribe to the Sporting News and they had a nice article about how successful MLS has become in the Pacific Northwest (Seattle, Portland, Vancouver). I can't honestly say I'd go to a bunch of games, but it would be nice to have a team and a stadium in Milwaukee. I wouldn't mind continuing the Miller Park tax for it because 1) it really is a small tax and 2) the money goes directly to where it says it goes, unlike pretty much all other tax money which goes wherever politicians decide to put it. A stadium downtown would be great for Milwaukee and would hopefully spur some other development like Sports bars, retail shops and restaurants. And it doesn't have to be huge. Why not a nice little 20,000 seat stadium? It won't cost nearly as much as a new Arena or Miller Park did. You could also have some High School tournaments there as Wisconsin boasts some darn good High School soccer teams. Maybe even an international exhibition once and awhile? And maybe Milwaukee could work something out with the WIAA to move the State High School tournament there. I have to honest about the MLS though. Their season runs from like March until November. What are they thinking? That's WAY too long. The weather sucks in northern and eastern cities like Chicago, Columbus, Philly, and so on in March and April and it's gotta be killing attendance. Why not just start the league in mid May and run it through September? As far as the Bucks go. I couldn't care less if they moved. The NBA doesn't interest me at all. I wouldn't mind an NHL team to replace them, but I don't see it happening in Milwaukee. Nobody seems to have any interest in buying a team. I think Milwaukee is really separating itself as a baseball town. It could change but I don't see that happening anytime soon.

If you are looking for a Cain-esque progression to the majors, I wouldn't hold my breath. I like Schafer, but he barely has any AA at bats. I can almost guarantee he stays at AA for the rest of the year. I was hoping to see either Komatsu or Schafer as Milwaukee's CF next year. But with the emergence of Nyjer Morgan and Gomez's super solid defense I am pretty certain that will be the same outfield combo next season. I still wouldn't mind seeing Komatu moved up soon but I'm fine with Schafer in Huntsville for the remainder of the year assuming he doesn't start tearing the cover of the ball. I would like to see Khris Davis move up soon too though along with Thornburg and Ross.

Schafer beats em all to the majors. Haha yeah sometime by 2014 he'll make it up to Milwaukee http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/wink.gif

I understand your point Crew. But the reason I am so upset with the Thornburg/Ross issue is because they are so old. Both will be 23 before the season is over I believe (or not soon after, something like that). If this was a 19 or 20 year old having this much success, I wouldn't be as irritated by it. As far as the working on pitches, I get that too. But at some point you're going to have to figure out whether or not the pitch is progressing by using it against better competition. I don't know if that's the case with Ross or Thornburg but I just don't feel like there's any more reason to keep them at low A ball. Let's say they are working on a change....they can't do that in BC? The hitters in BC are just so much better than they won't be able to work on a pitch in A+ ball? I'm not sure I believe that. Ross hasn't pitched well in 4 out of his last 5 games, what has he done lately to earn a promotion? Even though his ERA is almost twice that of Thornburg now it is still under 3 and his secondary numbers are mostly equal to that of Thornburg. His WHIP is just a shade lower, he has fewer walks in more innings, K rate is about the same and has only given up 1 home run in 61 innings. His last start was bad, but two of those other four you mention really weren't too terrible. One he gave up 3 runs in 6 innings with 9 K's and the other he gave up 3 runs in 5 2/3 innings with 5 K's. I'm not suggesting that he's our new #1 prospect and a front line starter. I'm just saying....he's a little old for his league and he's having success. What's the harm in moving him up sooner rather than later? and if our MLB team has taught us anything, the recent experience has proven that's it's very difficult to instill those fundamentals the closer the players get to the big leagues, or at MLB. But hasn't the recent experience also taught us that the Brewers really care more about offense than fundamentals? I understand the need to play good D and I really wish everyone on the team could, but when has someone been held back to work on defense? Promotions are almost always based on offense. Weeks, Fielder, Lawrie, Hart, Lucroy, Braun....they've all been like that. In the case of Komatsu; he's actually struggled lately (.131 in his last 10 games). But he is still putting the ball in play (only 4 K's in 31 at bats) and his overall numbers are still really good. For instance a .400 OBP and a 25:18 walk to strikeout ratio. What is he going to learn in Huntsville that he can't learn in Nashville?

I have some tickets for the Saturday game vs Minnesota, June 25th, I can't use. They are in Section 431 row 2 (Terrace Box) on the aisle. The face is $25 each. I am looking for $25 for the pair. Buy one get one free basically. If you are planning to go they are actually pretty good seats. Let me know if you're interested.

You certainly won't see the Wisconsin roster tampered with until after the first-half playoff chase. With all due respect to the Rattlers, I very much disagree with that strategy. Thornburg is an organizational top 5 prospect now and we are holding him back so our low A ball team can try to make the playoffs? Nichols is not what you would call an aggressive director. I agree with this but I do not like it. It seems like the organization has been taking some pretty big steps backwards since Jack Z. Left. The drafts have been overly heavy on college guys and it seems like a lot of them could be classified as either reaches or guys with low ceilings who don't really project to go very far. Not that loading up on college guys is necessarily a bad thing, but you can't load on college guys AND be slow to promote them. Look at the guys Wisconsin has been using to start games this year. Thornburg, Ross, Miller, and Nelson are all 22. Howell is 23. Even Brooks Hall, who was drafted out of high school is about to turn 21 and just made it to low A ball. Your A-ball roster shouldn't be filled with a bunch of 22 and 23 year olds. Thornburg should have been promoted weeks ago in my opinion. What does a 22 year old dominating a bunch of 18 and 19 year olds prove? If he isn't talented enough to make it to the majors, I'd prefer to know it in 2012 than in 2015 when he finally hits Triple A.

Purke and Tilson are both huge injury risks that will want a butt load of cash. I know they want a lot of money, but it may be worth it. I don't really know much about the injuries, but Purke was back and he pitched pretty well in the NCAA playoffs didn't he? This injury he suffered....was it his first major injury or is he considered injury prone? He was a possible number one overall pick before he got hurt. He may choose to go back to school to improve his stock but who knows, maybe you can throw enough money at him to get him to sign. I'm not calling for it, just something to consider. It's not like the talent isn't there.

Tyler Thornburg and Austin Ross to BC anyone? Khris Davis and Hunter Morris to Huntsville? Komatsu to Nashville? How much success do guys who are too old for their league need to have before they move up?

Wait.....Daniel Norris is still available? What happened there? I think Milwaukee has to take him if he lasts. And what about Matt Purke or John Stilson? Are they worth taking a chance on with the second round pick?

I'm hoping for Esposito or Westlake in the Second round! Come on hitters!

I'm not all that happy here. Was very disappointed to see both Lindor and Baez gone. I would have rather seen Gray and Guerrieri but oh well. They now obviously need either a bat or a HS arm with their second pick. Please no reach!

I am realistically hoping for Lindor at 12 and Guerrieri at 15. If that doesn't work out, Baez at 12 and Norris at 15. I'd really love for Archie Bradley at 12 but I don't think he'll be around. My absolute ideal draft would be Archie Bradley at 12, Taylor Guerrieri at 15 and a bat like Jason Esposito, Larry Greene, Aaron Westlake or Brett Austin in round 2.

Can someone tell me what this guy's ceiling looks like? I remember people being pretty exciting about getting him signed after he was drafted in 2009. Well it seems like Milwaukee really put the kiddie gloves on him as he has only recently been promoted to low A ball. He'll be 21 soon so he's not young, but he does seem to be pitching pretty well so far. The thing that excites me the most just looking at his stats is his low walk total so far. Has anyone seen him pitch live? How does he look? How hard does he throw?

Maybe a hockey style draft where your picks can go to play college but remain your property. Sort of leaning towards no on that one but thought I would throw it out there. I'd like something more like football and basketball where you declare and have a deadline to pull out. Once you hire an agent you're in. None of this..."well I'll see how much money I get offered and if I don't like it I'll just go to school". Too much leverage for the players. But someone brought up earlier something I've been adamant about....fix the compensation system. Heck I'd rather they just eliminate it entirely as opposed to keeping the current system.