MNBrew

I don't think any more significant acquisitions are happening before the end of the season. But this year shows just why it's worth the investment in TOP-level starting pitching. Maybe that means going out and ponying up for a Santana or Hudson -- someone of that caliber, not necessarily suggesting those two guys are acquireable -- with some of the money saved by re-staffing the LF position. Melvin needs to be downright aggressive in going after who he thinks the Brewers need to get (Garland? random names from previous threads keep coming to mind), being shrewd enough to improve the team significantly without totally giving up everything left in the pantry to do so. They need to be the right moves, and only the right moves. And that's where I think Melvin's biggest job lies.

I do think that this two-month stretch of crappy play should at least help Melvin & Co. look at the roster differently this off-season. Not that they weren't realistic before. But the honeymoon may officially be over for at least a few of the guys who've continued to get by more on potential than on recent performance (Capuano keeps coming to mind...). I can't say I know how they'll want to re-shape things. And fortunately a lot of the young guys will continue to grow from this year's experience and may even come back stronger next year (not that I expect Braun or Fielder to top this year's rates of production). The cool thing, I think, is that this team could still pull their heads out and run away with this division, however unlikely their present play makes that seem impossible.

The only real way this can suck worse than it does right now is for the losses to keep piling up. I still believe this is a better team than how they're playing. They're just stuck in this rut, and very, very, very badly so. Almost completely demoralizing!

Sorry, I should've brought my previous post back 'round to the original topic... While Hall may be a fit for SD, I doubt he's going anywhere. The front office still sees him as a building block for this team and he's signed to that big extension with at least 3 years remaining. If Melvin's good at one thing in particular in his deals during his Milwaukee tenure so far, it's knowing when to hold and when to sell. This would be selling quite low on Hall, and he ought to be worth more than they could get for him this offseason.

Signing Mark Loretta as our super-sub, periodic starter, Cirillo-like hitting backup IF would be a total coup! Of course, I'd love to have Cirillo back, too. But if he follows through on his plan to retire, I hope it's Loretta returning. The thing is, from time to time I wonder if Cirillo would've been as definite about retiring if the Brewers had hung onto him. Well, no matter how you slice it, I'd love him and/or Loretta back. And on a tangent, after watching a lot of that footage on the JSOnline re: the '82 reunion, does anyone else wonder if the Brewers wouldn't be well-served to get Ted Simmons working for them again? Looking through that thread about how his offensive stats compare to the best catchers of all time, then reading about his leadership on the '82 team, and reflecting on the respect that was shown him for a while when he was working in Pittsburgh's front office, I know I find myself wondering that. And I'm one of the last guys to clamor for bringing all the Glory Days Brewers back to run the club.

The fact that players can appeal suspensions makes it seem less of an "if A, then B" scenario, but sooner or later the Brewers are likely to be without Fielder's bat for a few days. If nothing else, this seems like a two-fold pre-emptive move: 1. Offense isn't working great and we'll eventually lose Fielder for a couple days, and Gross can at least be considered somewhat seasoned coming off the bench. He's also not considered a defensive liability. 2. Spurling stunk since the Break, which means there's one fewer guy pitching badly to choose from. Spurling seemed like a decent team player. And he wasn't always worthless, not by any means. But he's had enough time to show in Milwaukee that A) he's not a great pressure-situation reliever, and B) perhaps he's a better fit for building teams that would benefit from serviceable, at least somewhat experienced arms. The latter would fit Spurling, and he'd seem to be a decent fit for the Nationals-Pirates-Royals-DRays-type teams out there. This summary strikes me: Spurling is the type of guy the Brewers would latch onto a few years ago when they had the flexibility to try to bring "pulled from the scrap heap" type pitchers along at the big-league level. But the Brewers realize they aren't at that stage anymore, as well as that Spurling isn't a guy who's really going to help them win at all.

And do you know what the best part of that is, DHonks? Most people seemingly have been so content with his defense that you really don't often hear talk of how shaky he once was. I think that speaks volumes. I'll also go out on a limb to say that that's more because of his strong development defensively and not because of fans' short-term memories. Wouldn't it be cool if by two years from now, we also were able to be this content with Ryan Braun's improved defense, knock on wood?

While I think it'd be too much to expect this to happen, I wouldn't be surprised if the more steady PT he'll get over these last two months leads to Rickie finally finding a solid groove again before the year is out. If that happens, it'll probably happen later than sooner (although I'd be glad if I were wrong) -- or at least enough later so his numbers don't improve to the point where someone might look at his numbers and say he had a respectable year. In the big picture, I think the odds are still better than not that he turns out to be a very good player. I think the allusion to Sheffield's very poor season early on in his career (speaking of hitting, not of potential character) and the subsequent rebound could prove apt. At least I hope so. One thing is sure: Rickie's not had any sort of miraculous return to original form from his injuries & surgeries. The cool thing is that a great career could still lie ahead for him. And you can't discount his dramatic improvement on defense and what that could bode for the big picture of his career, either.

Hoping for KC to trade DeJesus is like someone else hoping for the Brewers to trade Fielder. Not gonna happen. He's the type of guy they have a hope of building around, so trading him off likely would only send them further backwards . . . and they're pretty far down as it is.

Jaybird, I gotta say I love the thought you've put into this. But I'm not totally sure these two trades are the ideal ways to do things. The first trade, flipping Capuano, Hall, & Gwynn for Granderson, seems too much of a textbook case of the Brewers selling low and buying high. I like Cappy in general but he's pretty much stunk since the All-Star break last year. Hall likely isn't going anywhere yet. And trading BOTH primary CF's they have in the same deal doesn't seem like the most practical trade. I'm also thinking you're overpaying for the two guys from Philly. Romero's been so bad that he's basically been dumped by three teams the past couple years (traded for then A-baller Alexi Casilla, then released by both the Angels & Red Sox). I hope he's back on track now - seems so. But I'd put more value on Bush than Romero & Bourn, who, I'll admit, I don't know much about. However, the way you've gone at this does get at one main agenda item for Doug Melvin this off-season: He still needs to do a better job of sorting out his outfield surplus than he has since October. Jenkins isn't a bad player at all. But at $9M he's grossly overpaid for what he's doing. Mench seems to have become more of a singles hitter than a power hitter. I like what his Texas track record shows he can do. But I don't like overall how that's transformed in his time as a Brewer. He would seem to be a prime candidate to trade to an AL team as a corner OF and DH - either as an affordable fit to a team like the Yankees, or as a veteran, proven-type fit for a building team (KC and Tampa always seems to come to mind) - for an okay AA or solid A OF prospect. I'd like to hope Hall would rebound some in CF next year. What we could really use is a monster-type bat in LF again. Mench & Jenkins' combined numbers aren't that shabby. But they both still seem so hit-and-miss when they're in the lineup. I'd love to end up with Cirillo back yet again, too. Counsell is solid defensively and is a nice veteran presence, but even Yost has said repeatedly that at this stage, production matters. If Hardy goes down again, we have a banjo-hitting shortstop. This lineup has enough trouble creating offense when it's not hitting HRs. We need fewer easy outs. Then there's the pitching side of things . . . . And maybe this isn't the best week to look fairly at that big picture.

At that time, Yount & Molitor were both up for new contracts. Yount's performance was declining, his bat speed was becoming pathetic (I think he only hit about 4 foul balls to left the last half of his last season), and they offered him a raise from his nearly $3M. Molitor was as strong as ever and they low-balled him, maybe somewhere around $1M, from the roughly $3M he had been making. What was Bando's line? "He's only a DH" or something like that? Stupid, stupid, stupid.

I'm guessing that the extra 3 wins involved between the Brewers' record in games started by Miller vs. Estrada would come from the games where Miller started at 1B. If that's the case, then obviously Estrada started those games, too.

At this point the only teams who should seriously consider trading for Piazza and giving him ample ABs are AL teams, where he can DH. He was a defensive liability 10 years ago and hasn't improved with age.

By the way, the title of this thread raises the question of 2 MVP candidates on the Brewers, yet the initial post only refers to Braun. Should we assume the 2nd guy is Fielder?

Maybe this is a dumb question, but doesn't VORP stand for "Value Over Replacement Player," not Value Above Replacement Player? It means the same thing, but wouldn't the latter lead to VARP, not VORP? The funny thing is, I have no idea how it's calculated and it's a measure I don't pay attention to in the least. But I think I did learn what it stood for. Ah, the fine things I learn from this website!

Castillo is a singles/doubles hitter, which is why his OPS is lower than Graffanino's. Castillo is a .300-type hitter who gets on base, which is what you need the leadoff hitter to do. I'm not saying one's any better than the other. I'm simply pointing out that this is an apples-to-oranges comparison, and thus, at least for leadoff hitters, that OPS is not the best measuring stick. The leadoff hitter's job is to get on base and get around to score. Castillo tends to do his job in that way. Lots of teams would love Neshek or Guerrier from the Twins. But Terry Ryan is always hesitant to make deals in the first place. And last week on the radio, he explicitly said once again that he's always very reluctant to deal pitching. Asking the Twins for Neshek or Guerrier these days is like asking the Brewers for Gallardo or Villanueva. The RH bat names you hear the Twins possibly considering are Ty Wigginton, Dmitri Young, and maybe Kevin Mench or Jeff Conine. They'd love it if Cirillo could play everyday, but it seems his balky knees really aren't a good match for playing on turf so often. If it came down to adding any bat, and maybe being able to make a deal aound Geoff Jenkins for Joe Nathan, the Brewers would certainly need to sweeten the deal a bit and probably pay a little salary, too. Aquino adds little to any deal, and I strongly believe that Alcides Escobar is overrated as a prospect on this board. Maybe something like this: Twins get: Jenkins Jackson a strong low-level prospect a bit of salary relief Brewers get: Nathan a B-level pitching prospect (The Twins are quite thin on real strong position player prospects.) Even then, though, I don't know if Terry Ryan takes a deal like this seriously unless the Brewers add a more substantial upper-level prospect to this. Then again, who knows?

Don Sutton wore #21 when the Brewers first got him. He didn't wear #20 until after Gorman was traded. Incidentally, because my wife got into the habit of watching KMSP's 9:00 news, I saw plenty of Jeff Grayson. We both enjoyed him and thought he did a great job in a very professional way, and we found it very disappointing the way they let him go -- which was essentially for no good reason.

I was pretty sure Gwynn, Jackson, & Parra still had options left after this year. Double-checking the BF.net 40-man roster page (linked in the 1st post in this thread), that is indeed correct. So of the 8 guys initially listed, only 5 are out of options next spring, not all 8, fortunately. If it were 8, that would seem to be a really high number. It also makes me wonder if someone like Aquino could be used in a deal before this season's over, and especially before the deadline in 10 days.

Hart's a player about everyone would like to have: very productive, lots of promise, and cheap. But read the quote carefully and you realize he's simply dreaming out loud. It's like us here on this board dreaming about getting Johan Santana, Dontrelle Willis, or Jake Peavy: nice idea, but serious pipe dream.

Good proposal/idea and discussion, Brian. I get lost on the idea of trading both Gwynn & Gross. Gwynn, especially if he can cut down on the Ks a little (in other words, keep showing improvement like he's been making the past 2 seasons), is at worst a 4th OF. If he's a starter, he may never be a stud. But unlike other CF prospects we've seen the last 5 years or so (Sanchez, Krynzel come to mind), Tony Gwynn understands he doesn't have lots of home run power and tries better than those other clowns to best utilize his skill set. He has good speed, an improving bat, and was ML-ready defensively 2 years ago, he's still reasonably young, not to mention his potent bloodlines. Anyway, I'm a fan of keeping Gwynn around for a while. If you trade Gross and Gwynn, want to lose Mench, don't expect to pick up Jenkins' option, and plan to let Wilkerson walk as a FA, then all you have left in the Brewers' OF are Hall & Hart with maybe Drew Anderson the next guy in line. That's not only a thin set of starters, but also leaves the team with no depth whatsoever. I'm not convinced Jackson will be a solid major-leaguer. But Texas will usually take anyone with a pulse and their pitching arm still attached. If this deal might have any legs, I'd rather try this: Texas gets: Mench & Jackson Brewers get: Wilkerson & low-level prospect If anyone could be conned into overvaluing Mench, it'd be the Rangers, who (other than Schowalter) loved him and who also would still remember well plenty of Mench's success the first few years of his career. And with Nelson Cruz not panning out so far this year, they may just be open to bringing in another proven ML bat to DH or play a corner OF spot.

Marte would have some appeal to the Brewers, I'd think, but the latest mailbag on the Pirates' website indicates they're looking for bullpen help just like everyone else. That said, their homepage beat writer seems to think they're hoping some of their young prospect arms are near the point of being part of the solution. So it's hard to know if the Pirates would deal. They don't seem to need OF help in a glaring way. Maybe they could use a Bush/Vargas-type starter. But sending a proven starter for a lefty reliever would seem to represent overpayment if we didn't also get something more in return.

Funny how it all works. For a time it seemed like Gerald & Bernie both could've panned out equally strongly. Gerald may have been the better fielder, in actuality, but he forgot how to hit by his last few years. I loved that trade at the time. Total brilliance by Sal Bando -- and maybe the only true instance of it. Lloyd was the only strong, serviceable part who had a chance of being a good player ON THE BREWERS (recall Vaughn wasn't going to re-sign for the dollars the Brewers thought they had to offer) of the 5 who were traded in 3 deals at that time. Also, Seitzer was retiring, Bones stunk, & Listach was hurt thanks, I believe, to the bad field conditions in that Las Vegas exhibition game. Williams got us Chad Fox, who in spite of his injuries was generally quite strong when healthy, before Fox left as a free agent. Wickman and a couple others (Bere & Woodard?) helped us get Sexson, who in turn got us half a 25-man roster at the time. That Sexson trade keeps reaping benefits, as other threads have dissected. Bernie Williams would look good in a Brewers uniform, for sure. But I wish it had a better chance of happening than it seems to.

Trading Gallardo for anything short of a young stud 15-to-20 game winner or a young stud All-Star-caliber proven bat (David Wright) would probably be foolish. And most teams aren't looking to give up any guy they might have to meet that criteria. I think trading Gallardo anytime soon would be seriously foolish and, fortunately, extremely, extremely unlikely. Back to the proposed trades, Crawford's good but not that much of an upgrade if Hall's really just in a slump, which I still think is the case. And if Gallardo's as good as everyone seems to think he is, it shouldn't take much more than Gallardo straight-up to get Crawford. But I still think any trade involving Gallardo this year or, barring injury, next year, would run a high risk of occupational suicide for Doug Melvin.

Castro especially, and Maddux, have worked wonders with some of the apparent "leftovers" from other teams they've picked up for the Brewers' pen over the years. Sometimes they've really helped the guy tap into his true ability. And other times it seems like they catch lightning in a bottle. So it shouldn't come as any great surprise from time to time that we all figure out -- or maybe it's the other teams' hitters who figure out -- that that particular emperor isn't wearing any clothes, so to speak. Some guys are the real thing and some are flashes in the pan. The key is figuring out who is who. Lately it seems like the bullpen's performance is making some of that obvious.

If the Yankees are looking for an available bat to replace Giambi at DH & maybe somewhere in the field, I'd gladly send them Mench: Yankees get: Kevin Mench Brewers get: 50 cases of Johnsonville brats Verdict: Brewers get the better end of the deal. Sarcasm aside, it sure seems like Mench could/should be there for the taking. And his salary wouldn't burden the Yankees very much. Just a seemingly logically founded thought.