MNBrew

I sincerely think the Brewers are a good SS, a good Rickie Weeks, & half a bullpen away from being top contenders again. I wonder if Greinke might be inclined to see it the same way. . . . and choose to stay in Milwaukee. - Rickie's here already. Just has to find his good plate approach again (might take an off-season). Zack has known Rickie since they grew up in neighboring towns (Altamonte Springs & Apopka) and trust/familiarity/comfort means something to Greinke. - A truly good SS is a major challenge for the Brewers but it also is for most teams. An acceptable big-league SS is do-able, though I'm not sure who that'd be. - The BP's at least half-easy to restructure w/ affordable young guys & the right acquisition or two after a much-needed purge. Other than Texas & the Yankees, most other teams aren't much/any more of a sure thing than the Brewers.

If Greinke's gone, next year's rotation for sure has Gallardo, Estrada, Fiers. Narveson's a possibility, too, but a BIG question mark. With enough other good starters available, it may be much more helpful to have Estrada back in the BP. I like what Thornburg & some of the other prospects might add, but for losing Greinke, I'd much rather keep a guy of Marcum's caliber even if he's maybe more of a 2-3 starter than a 1. So I'd buy out Wolf & pay Marcum IF Marcum's in good health & still productive through September than pay Wolf OR go hunting for another FA starter OR expect the rotation to be filled with too many young guys. (Admittedly, the years of Baker/Slowey/Blackburn/Liriano rotations of the Twins are too close to the fore of my thinking!)

Sure, BPs are an annual crapshoot. But you need a couple proven guys besides the closer. The rest may well be current AAA/AA guys such as those mentioned above, young guys, future rotation guys, or scrap heap nuggets (or lightning-in-a-bottle types). Veras wasn't the next Hawkins or Saito. He was another Loe -- just another guy. I don't want any more "just another guy"s. I'm rooting for someone with a solid track record -- the next Hawkins or Saito. 1 or maybe 2 of those guys -- at least somewhat reasonably priced, not a Matt Thornton contract -- in a BP isn't an outrageous notion when your closer going forward is still under team control for another 3-4 years. I think mostly we're envisioning a similar BP construction, adambr2. Offering K-Rod arby was perceived by pretty much everyone at the outset as a low-risk move. . . . a long-odds possibility that still & unfortunately became their reality. I highly doubt we see that mistake repeated by Melvin or probably most any other GM.

I keep saying that because we need a good bullpen -- not just this year but also next year & beyond. While contending this year may be a pipe dream, there are still current wrongs that can be righted easily enough with the right moves. If we trade/dump/whatever most of the lousy relievers -- a great blessing if it happens -- the Brewers still need QUALITY options out of the bullpen before Axford. And I think the odds are that more of that likely will need to come from proven/productive veterans than AAA guys (McClendon/Henderson/Rivas/Peralta/Rogers/Dillard/Wooten). [Note: I'm not just talking pending FA's but also productive/proven relievers either pre-arby or in multi-year deals. While it isn't very likely, I'd sure love to get Hawkins (2-year deal) or Balfour (team option for '13) back. Good young relievers would seem more likely to come back to the Brewers in "seller at the deadline" deals.] Waiting 'til season's end to blow up the bullpen & get quality pitchers into the 4 (5 if Greinke's dealt -- Thornburg into the rotation) spots beyond Ax & Livan stands to decimate not only the psyche of the current team but also the perception of the team & the organization across MLB -- including FAs the Brewers might want to pursue this winter.

TB just traded for Ryan Roberts. Never cared for the guy, his game, or his tattoo fetish. http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2012/07/rays-acquire-ryan-roberts-from-diamondbacks.html

[sarcasm]If Melvin has a chance of moving Loe or Parra or even Veras (and hopefully K-Rod), he'd better move quickly before teams figure out how lousy they were again these 1st 2 games in Philly.[/sarcasm] McClendon hasn't pitched this year like he did last year, not even in AAA, but he's one of a handful of guys from Nashville that really couldn't do much worse than the present cast of ineptitude -- and sooner or later they need to start getting that chance. I'd say keep Axford & Hernandez (the mop-up guy), make an aggressive trade or two for BP guys who could be decently good (I keep thinking of Balfour to begin with), and bring up Nashville guys to fill out the BP roster. I know there are bundles of unknowns & potential disaster in the AAA guys, too. But I'm thinking Loe/Parra/Veras/K-Rod collectively are gonna be WAY too spendy due to arby (or FA in K-Rod's case) or are just plain too unproductive to consider bringing most or all of them back, so some of the AAA guys could use these last 2 months as a head start on earning a spot next year. If Greinke gets traded (I still hold out major hope that he re-signs, however unlikely that may be), it doesn't change the key issue that we still need a viable rotation next year to contend. The rotation's had its issues this year, but the bullpen and to some extent the undependable offense are by far bigger culprits in this season's demise than the rotation.

Speak for yourself. It's sadly & seemingly completely predictable at this point, but it's still incredibly demoralizing. What's worse (yes, there's worse) is that this present team just can't pull off a "have to" game pretty much ever this year when it seems they need to.

It's not like the offense is remotely consistent(ly good), but improving the bullpen should be Melvin's major deadline objective. K-Rod's been better lately but a BB/9 ratio of roughly 4.5 this late into the season is grounds for expulsion. It'd seem that getting rid of him would be a good 1st step to improving the 'pen. I'm not saying they're going to come back & make a good playoff push. But I'd much rather see them make moves that enable them to be an improved team in '13. Greinke would make this team much better in '13 if he'd agree to an extension. A better bullpen in '13 & moving forward is intensely essential -- far more so than improved D at the SS position was after last year. (Heck, I'd still take Yuni B back at SS over the black hole in the batting order we have & can't really afford to have right now!)

This isn't a knock on Roenicke, but rather a condemnation of the current so-called conventional wisdom.... Why does a manager almost always manage the 9th inning differently than an earlier inning when the closer just plain doesn't have it? With how inconsistent Rodriguez has been -- with as many walks as he's given up this year, with how he was having a hard time throwing strikes tonight, and how he could only get 1 of the first 7 batters out -- someone certainly should've been ready in the bullpen once Howard's hit scored 2. . . . . Wins have been so much harder to come by this year -- perhaps more accurately, harder to hold onto without blowing -- that these are the kind of giveaway wins that sink teams already on bad downward spirals, and therefore Roenicke should've pulled the plug sooner to get a different pitcher into the game. Heck, Hernandez, Veras, Thornburg, & Loe were all available. I don't know that I can say I really trust any of those guys any more than I trust K-Rod, but K-Rod wasn't going to get the job done. But K-Rod's the closer and it seems only in the rarest of instances does the closer ever get yanked when he stinks. This one tonight just hurts so doggone badly. Ugh.

Paul's plan gives us a team of Braun, Lucroy, Weeks, Gallardo, Axford, Estrada, and no one else with any sort of proven track record for major league success -- a glorified KC Royals of the past couple years: loads of prospects but anyone with any solid experience quickly earns his way to a better team for yet more prospects (the start of a vicious cycle that many teams have a tough time breaking). Perhaps equally pie-in-the-sky, but here's my hope: - Hart & K-Rod are the obvious guys to trade. There are replacements for both of them in Green & Axford. Green plays everyday & Ishikawa backs him up. $16M cleared from the payroll (in full-season terms). - Find a SS who can do something consistently positive with the bat. This team's pitching is lousy but its hitting outside its star-types is horribly benign. - Choose whether Kottaras or Maldonado is the backup catcher moving forward & get someone good for the bullpen for the other (likely greater quality for Maldonado but it'd still depend on who the trade partner would be). Also... - Get Greinke's John Hancock on a contract extension regardless of the price. (Yes, I mean that seriously). - Keep Ramirez. It's not that he's the best 3B out there. But Taylor Green plays other positions, too, where we also need him and we've seen what happens at SS when you have no good backup player. - Find some way -- hopefully through the above moves -- to improve this crap bullpen. For all those who questioned their worth, I'd still gladly take Hawkins & Kotsay back onto this roster for their comfort in their roles and their savvy clubhouse leadership.

While I agree big time that our bullpen's horrible and cost the team many games, I'm equally dissatisfied with our offense. Why can so many teams seem to get just a couple hits and put the Brewers in an unconquerable hole, yet for the Brewers it takes nothing short of a minor miracle to string together a few hits to net more than one run, and especially so more than once per game. This team has plenty of talent & skill, but it largely seems to lack the kind of killer instinct that the teams they play against seem to have when they get the Brewers down. That's not quantifiable, but it sure seems quite evident. I'd still hope to see the Brewers make moves to add to the bullpen. Selling off other pieces doesn't improve our bullpen. I wouldn't mind seeing Nyjer traded to get Schafer into the bigs. And I'd gladly dump Corey Hart for Taylor Green (for the moment) and Mat Gamel (next year, assuming he's fully healthy again). But if the bullpen's not improved, this team will continue to be in a world of hurt.

Since when is anything out there saying he rejected the offer from a week ago?

No manager's perfect, and in my mind, without a doubt, the manager's not the issue except for his recent insistence on trusting Axford when Ax has been consistently terrible. I'm sick of this "defeat from the jaws of victory" routine. The bullpen is this team's Achilles heel & it must be addressed for this team to have a fighting chance. There's still plenty of time in this race, and Melvin needs to be making a hard charge for Grant Balfour and/or other GOOD relievers here over the next 2 weeks. K-Rod's been the only one remotely reliable lately, which is scary. Axford needs to get right. Loe & Veras haven't proven to be regularly reliable and shouldn't be clutch go-to guys anywhere after the 7th inning (preferably not after the 6th). Dillard's gone (finally) & Estrada's been bumped up into the rotation. Parra's still proving that mental makeup can undermine stellar talent & stuff. The pitching in last 3-4 innings of the game should be as reliable as the first 5-7 have generally become. Until that happens, we're on very shaky ground!

At the moment, nothing is sacred and the Brewers must do anything they can to win ballgames. Trusting Axford in the 9th is killing them right now. Tonight's game is glaring proof of all these points.

My thoughts exactly. We have another closer in K-Rod. Why keep shooting the team in the foot by using Axford in a role he can't pull off with any consistency? (Wow, that was an amazingly rational couple sentences considering tonight's blown save has my emotions beyond boiling!)

Sign him. Do whatever it takes. Yes, I'm totally serious. Pull up the Brinks truck. Let him work in the war room on draft day. Who cares? Do whatever it takes -- much of which also probably means making the right kinds of baseball decisions that help him feel Milwaukee can continue to be a winning baseball team and not just a smaller but baseball-crazy town. Then... - Perhaps the injury to Marcum this year makes him an affordable 1-2 year risk on another contract. Maybe not. But I sure don't see the Brewers as having to decide yet whether or not that ship has sailed. - Sayonara, Randy Wolf, after this year. ...Rotation stands to be Greinke, Gallardo, Marcum(?) &/or Narveson(?), Fiers, Estrada, possibly Thornburg. Not bad at all. - Fix the bullpen BIG TIME. If Melvin has any trading deadline buying to do, I seriously think it's here (and if he can pull a legit SS rabbit out of his hat, that'd be awesome, too, but the 'pen is a much more terribly glaring area). I, for one, hope they'll go hard after Grant Balfour. Guy's been nothing short of darn good ever since we traded him, & all in all it would've been better if we never had. But goodness knows no one in that 'pen past Axford & K-Rod have a track record nearly as solid as Balfour's past few years.

I totally agree w/ NievesNoNo above, and for that reason I'm being completely serious when I say they should offer him a Cain contract and not even think twice. Sign him, period. Otherwise, how long will it take to bring along some young pitcher to the point where he performs like Greinke can? Combining this organization's track record, plus the sheer odds, I'd say 10-15 years. So why wait & hope? With Greinke & Gallardo as a 1-2 punch at the top of the rotation for years to come, and plenty of legit SP prospects in the pipeline, the Brewers should never be terribly far from contending if they develop well & play their chips right.....(and avoid a slew of injuries).

I think what the Brewers are doing w/ Green looks more like putting him in a position to build him up for long-term success rather than like an indicating/suggesting that he's a failure. It's a random analogy, but while the Twins knew of Johan Santana's talents & high ceiling, he started a couple years in a row in the bullpen, built up his results & confidence at the MLB level, and moved him into the rotation when it was the right combination of opportunity & readiness. I'm not suggesting Green's a future MVP. But being brought along a little bit slowly at the MLB level can be an intentional strategy. Would you look back on the Twins of Santana's early years and say they were idiots for not putting him into the rotation right away since he turned out to be a Cy Young Award winner later? I don't think you could successfully argue that Maysonet or Conrad have out-produced Green so far.

Weird, or John Axford weird? Remember, he's Canadian after all!

Heck, I'd just take a good athlete at SS as long as he can hit. Heck, I'd play Carlos Gomez there on days he's not starting in the OF. Ridiculous? Yes. But that's how utterly worthless Izturis is. Defense be, um, well, "darned" (not sure if the normal term passes through the cursing filter), Izturis is flat-out BEYOND terrible at the plate. We have 2 automatic outs in the lineup anytime he plays -- 3, really, as long as Weeks is this far gone, too -- and this team's hitting so badly that we can't afford to have 3 automatic outs. We have plenty of reason to expect Weeks to improve, but not Izturis. Heck, we have pitchers who are better hitters than Izturis. Yuni had plenty of flaws -- usually quite obvious to the naked eye on a regular basis. But he also had ample good points. As a baseball player, Izturis doesn't really have any good points. I'd take Yuni and his bat along w/ his suspect/questionable/periodically painful D over Izturis every day of the year. Yes, I'm that serious.

Does Izturis seemingly make an out on the first pitch all the time or only about 80% of the ABs I follow on GameDay? Way to go, Taylor Green, for actually getting a hit!

Exactly. I hope he's the guy sent out when Gomez comes back. For a guy w/ about 2.5 yrs of MLB service time & increasingly declining production, he's about 10x more pathetic on this team than Casey McGehee ever was. Yuck.

I almost hate to put it this way, but the Cubs gave the Brewers sooooo many chances that I was definitely feeling the Brewers would have to win it because the Cubs pretty much didn't really deserve to. The Brewers haven't been good, to be sure. The Cubs haven't either. But it's also fair to say that the Brewers still should be a whole lot better than they've been. Nice to get the W. Let's get another starting in 11.5 hours!

Bad things about tonight's game: - Veras sucking badly & Loe not saving Veras' can - Axford's completely atrocious 9th for the 2nd straight game - Ishikawa when he wasn't bunting & Izturis when he was - Weeks any time he was in the batter's box (again) - at least when he wasn't getting HBP - when the offense has been so pathetic lately, 11 H, 14 BB, & 3 HBP very nearly gone to waste (also belongs in the list below) Good things: - Hart's 4-for-7 & two uber-clutch RBI hits - Ramirez now over 1/4 of the way from .200 to .300 BA - Lucroy & Kottaras - Braun getting on base 5 of 7x tonight -- w/o even getting a hit (funny someone was ragging about him not taking his walks in another recent thread) - Green getting another hit - Wolf, K-Rod, Parra, & (pinch me) Chulk

I agree, too, that for at least a while they have to wait this out. I believe they will come around, at least somewhat. As lousy as it's going, there are many reasons to believe -- rationally, and breathing normal air -- that this team isn't really this bad. There are a zillion reasons to believe the sky is falling, too, many of which are also true. But I just can't believe the season's gone over the cliff and it's time to start preparing to sell everyone off. Five major injuries in a couple weeks, at least 3 seasons over, the offense hardly clicking at all, and pitchers now feeling like they have to be perfect. But with the offense in a total funk, we're still only 12-17. Sure sounds like too many guys pressing WAY too hard. They have to relax and start giving themselves a chance. The funny thing, though, is that we went through stretches just like this with Prince Fielder in the lineup everyday, so I'm pretty sure his absence isn't a core issue here at all. Back on the point SS's, though... Not meeting Hairston's demands is still proving to have been the most foolish decision of the offseason. Not going hard after Nick Punto once Hairston was gone was also a prime blunder. Cesar Izturis....yikes.... isn't really much better than Enrique Cruz at the plate anymore! Counsell sure proved he was washed up last year, at least at the plate, but I'm still pretty sure I'd sure take him back over Izturis. There's also a bit of the "clubhouse glue" factor with Counsell that might help 'em get through this, too.