Fatter than Joey

FTJ, why not explain yourself more than just throwing out one-liners? Given the statements made -- One liners were sufficient. The burden isn't on me to provide links or stats, certainly when they aren't provided intially. I will certainly refute stats with stats, but the poster I was referring to was making clearly inaccurate statements in comparing Cordero with Turnbow. Cordero went something like 2 months in 2007 before giving up an earned run. I think most informed people here will recall that, or will take the time to at least qualify their statements. Turnbow allowed 12 of 14 inherited runners to score, he was not an All Star at any point last season. If someone says Craig Counsell is better than Ryan Braun. I don't think you need to say anything more than "No." I believe that someone here worked it out to find that Turnbow did in fact face the middle of the lineup more often than Coco. As stated before, Turnbow led the NL in BBs last year for relievers, I am sure he faced a lot of line up spots more often than Cordero, in each spot of the lineup, because he couldn't get people out efficiently. You stated things as not true or as doubtful, and then spoke of Turnbow's recent performance without doing any digging. I feel pretty confident that I am as or more intimate with Turnbow's body of work in 2007 than most people here. I went through the trouble of going through his 2007 game log and then broke it down on my blog. Most people here have either read the blog, and understand where my conclusions are coming from and agree or disagree. I don't feel the need to post a link to ESPN or my blog each time someone wants to talk about Turnbow.

St. Louis is playing way over their heads, I'm not sold on the veracity of this statement -- I looked through the Cardinal lineup and its not as if they have a bunch of Kendall types hitting .562. They seem to be executing well, and probably are a much better team than last year.

8-6 is the record the Brewers had at 14 games last year. It's winning baseball. 11-4 is a gaudy number and is so small it signifies nothing. I hope you realize the hypocrisy in your statement -- If the Cardinals 15 game mark means nothing, then you simply cannot declare that the 8-6 start by the Brewers is "winning baseball". If the Brewers 8-6 is winning baseball, the Cards 11-4 is dominant baseball. If the Cards 11-4 signifies nothing, then the Brewers 8-6 start also signifies nothing.

In essence, I won't worry about this offense. The talent is there. I agree. I think we will live and die with this offense, if Prince/Braun continue to suck for an extended period of time -- it's not as if they can be replaced with someone from AAA.

Guys, we are not even 10% of the way through the season. Relax. I'm pretty sure that unless you are in Frankie Goes to Hollywood, you probably shouldn't be telling people to relax.

8-6 every 14 games, which is reasonable = 92-70... Cardinals at 11-4 every 15 games, which won't happen = 118-44 My vent is when people do this -- you can't project the Brewers 8-6 anymore than the Cards 11-4

Are Weeks Gwynn and Sheets the only Brewers to appear in this set (or subsequent year?)

I was at the one the last time they were in Chicago. They are a blast.

Let's be honest guys, Turnbow should have been the reliever sent to the All-Star Game last year instead of Coco. No. This is non-factual. He was dominating in the eighth inning, shutting down the meat of the opposition, allowing Coco to get his saves and gaudy numbers versus the back of the lineup, as evidenced by T-Bow's OPS-against contrasted with Coco's. I doubt this is true. So to say that T-Bow hasn't been good in the last year and a half would be quite the fallacy. Turnbow has pretty bad since the AS break of 2006 -- That's not to say he can't pitch garbage innings, but he has been largely ineffective for the game scenarios he has been put in.

I think at best in terms of trading Turnbow, the Brewers could get a couple marginal prospects or maybe one of Melvin's patented "diamond in the rough" type guys. That's it. My theory has always been that DM (much like Vargas), has shopped Turnbow in the past, and teams have passed on him. I'm wondering if we can pawn him off to a coach that is known for being able to get inside people's heads as a "fixer upper" case. I really think his mental issues are overstated here -- I am sure a change of scenery would do him some good -- however, at the end of the day, I don't think he can locate his pitches well. I think for another team to want to see if they can "fix" him, Tbow will have to back on the scrap heap. Did we trade Wise or was he DFA'd? I thought he was DFA'd. We non-tendered Wise I think.

Must have been something about you that he didn't like. Because that is insane. Maybe Toby was wearing that hat that makes him look like Jason Mraz

Borowski is on the DL

Is that Illegal? Probably in some states

If you don't mind waiting for payment till this Friday when I get paid I'll buy it off you Russ. Your 488 page tribute to Bill Keane finally got published? Congrats!

What is a doggy doo business? I think you pay a service to go have dogs crap on people's yards you don't like. My guess is that they have a number of dogs, and you pay per volume of potential poopage. Great Dane probably runs about $20, Cockapoo probably $5.

Can't wait for the PA announcer to announce " now pitching for the Milwaukee Brewers, Jeff Weaver" I am totally cool with this never happening. In Doug we trust I am not sure we have another choice.

I think he threw 109 pitches -- so mission accomplished!

I'm quite sure Melvin knows this as well so this is an improve the baseball team deal not a help get Prince signed deal. Right, I suspect though that DM has a promise with Boras that Weaver will either get quickly released or get brought up to the MLB team -- I don't think Weaver is going to be the R.A. Dickey of 2008 for the Brewers.

I hope so. I can't imagine Tbow would bring anything terribly exciting.

This is not as amusing as the Gape Kapler signing. It seems like he will need a couple of months to get into shape. Was he in any team's camp this spring? He is represented by Boras, so I have to think that he will see the mound on a MLB diamond somewhere in 2008.

When looking at the 38 other pitchers above Turnbow who threw more pitches than him only Heath Bell had as many or more holds than Turnbow did with as many pitches thrown. The Hold might be the silliest stat in all of baseball... You only get a hold if you come into a game in a save situation -- that means middle relievers that come into a 2-1 game on the losing end do not get a hold. Closers do not get holds, nor do pitchers that get the win -- I don't think in your application, holds mean much. Also look at least years pitches per inning. 17.1 is a rather high number for a reliever to have. It's really not -- there were 30 relievers in the NL that had as many or more pitchers per inning than Tbow. That means he was either left in to long especially for what he was being used for last year as a setup man. I disagree I think that if you look at the guys who threw 17+ pitches per inning, they were guys that were largely ineffective. Turnbow had the most BBs for a reliever in the NL last year as well. As far as Ned hooking Tbow, I agree that Ned is VERY slow to reacting to meltdowns -- however that is how Ned rolls, if you are his "8th inning pitcher" you pretty much pitch the whole inning regardless of the results. Everyone agrees that Villanueva got worn down near the end of the year last year. Why doesn't Turnbow get the same treatment? Villy pitched 11 more innings as a reliever than Turnbow in 2007, made a lot of multi-inning appearances, and was very effective -- Tbow on the other hand was not as good. Villy is also a younger pitcher who probably needed to be stretched out. If Tbow had made some 2-4 IP appearances like Villy did last year, I am sure we would have been a lot more forgiving. Basically Villy was handed the ball with guys on base, knowing he'd have to pitch 4 innings, in back to back days, etc..., and he performed admirably for the most part. With Tbow it seems like you have a list of situations you cannot use him in (can't pitch back to back, can't inherit runners, can't face guys who wait for his fastball, etc.), yet you are still exposed to the "meltdown" -- I don't think it is a big mystery why Villy's star is rising and Tbow's is falling. Its just everyone remembering only the bad that Turnbow did last year I don't think this is fair either. I think if Tbow had truly been effective and the negativity surrounding him was purely fan perception, Tbow would not have been bumped down by Gagne/Riske/Torres/Mota -- that is to say, I think DM has the same perception as we do. Turnbow is adequate for the bullpen that we have. You can't have every single pitcher in the bullpen being the best. This is a strawman argument -- no one here has ever stated that we need exclusively all-star closers in our BP. Tbow is fine at the back end of the BP. Turnbow is still a serviceable relief pitcher if he is used correctly. In games where the outcome is pretty much determined I would agree.

Now this was the first time Turnbow even threw over 1100 pitches in his career. 34 RPs threw more pitches than Turnbow last year. In 2006 Tbow threw 1093 pitches -- I dont think those 7 pitches were a big deal.

How many times do brewerfan posters correc t m y mistakes in my posts or try to alert me to my typing mistakes? People go to the park to watch a game, people come to a forum to discuss things. I don't think people are deliberately being rude to point out your typing, a lot of times your posts can be pretty hard to read. Then a couple of other fans chimed in that I was indeed correct, and the dude lost his temper and stormed out of his seat to the exit never to be seen again. I took my brother to a game once, and we were sitting by this guy who was complaining about EVERYTHING. --- The ushers were too old, the groundscrew were too fat, the roof opened incorrectly, etc. -- All of this was prior to the game starting. So this dude has registered about 50 complaints before the star spangled banner. The Brewers had some local grade school choir to sing the national anthem -- and afterwards this guy says "Those kids sounded flat". My brother turned around and said "clearly the kids were sharp", -- he shut up for a second and then on the first pitch the Brewers gave up a triple, and he yelled "GAME OVER" and walked out. Best. Complainer. Ever.

Fair enough.

Braun for reasons above.