Neither, you over value his trade value. Gamel for Buchholz would be a fair deal value wise, neither you or I would probably want to make that deal, but recently history has shown that to be accurate. I assume you're familiar with Edwin Jackson's career as he's been in the AL East? He was best pitcher moved this past off-season in a trade. He was pitcher with very good stuff who hadn't quite put it all together, but he had been trending positively and still put a respectable 4.42 ERA, the only reason I didn't make a lot of noise for him was his K/9 became pedestrian last year and I wasn't sure what that meant. (I whined for Niemann over Wright and Green though, I've been enamored with the Rays approach to building a team for a couple of years now). I feel he had established that he was a solid #3 in most rotations, with a chance of being better, but the Tigers only had to give up Matt Joyce to get him. Part of that I'm sure is that the whole world knew with Price joining the rotation this season the Rays would have to move a pitcher at some point, which hurt Jackson's value. In no way did I know or expect that Jackson would finally put it together, he's BB/9 dropped yet again and his K/9 has rebounded, he's been fantastic, but I want to make it clear that when he was traded I think most people viewed his as a #3 or #4 pitcher in most organizations. Matt Joyce has intriguing power potential and is LH, but he was a very small price to pay. I've already pointed out Garza for Young, then there's Volquez for Hamilton that stands out as well. Why am I pointing all this out? Because what's fair value for a value, and what fans want in a trade, are usually 2 different things. For example, your initial proposal for some of our young starting pitching wasn't all that bad value wise, but most of us are going to be very hesitant to trade pitching when we don't have a solid MLB rotation to begin with, especially for a player like Penny. Was he worth the prospects? Probably, though 1 high ceiling at most in my opinion, but if I'm moving players that I think we *need*, I'm going to want a hell of a lot more back than Brad Penny. I really like Buchholz, always have, he's by far the best pitcher in AAA who might be available (I personally prefer Feliz, but I've beat that drum to death), but his value has been hurt by the fact that the Sox keep going a different way, sort of like what happened with Niemann in TB (his peripherals still stink, but the stuff is there) whom they couldn't find a taker for last season. In no way am I saying they are similar pitchers, just that getting stuck in AAA for more than one season hurts a prospect's value. In addition he's never pitched more than 150 innings, he looks to be on track to do that season, and it might not be a bad thing from health standpoint to reach that threshold for the first time at 24 years of age. However, he's doesn't appear to be stretched out enough for 200 IP, which again hurts his value. His AAA results are fantastic, his limited MLB track record not so much. Hardy is approximately fair value for Buchholz, the Brewers may have to send another minor prospect now that he's become a glorified rental. Even so, he's a top 4 SS in all of baseball value wise, last season only Ramirez, Reyes, and Rollins had a great WAR value, he's put himself in that top tier. Hardy's value has been established in 2007 and 2008, Buchholz has no established value outside of his potential, his true value is impossible to define, but history shows that MLB players carry much greater weight in trades, as they should. You don't want to make the deal for all of the correct reasons, and I agree with the way you view it, I feel similarly about moving top prospects for rental players, but that doesn't mean the proposed trade would not be fair value for both sides.