All-Time Brewers roster

[RyDogg66]

Went head-to-head with a Yankee fan today choosing the best rosters we could from 1970 on, 25 man roster, we also used the DH. This is what I came up with.

 

Lineup/Player/Position/Year/Stats

1. Paul Molitor 2b (1987) .353 Ave. 16 HR 45 Sb

2. Cecil Cooper* 1b (1980) .352 25Hr, 122 RBI

3. Robin Yount SS (1982) .331 BA, 29 HR, 114 RBI

4. Prince Fielder* DH (2007) .288, 50HR, 119 RBI

5. Gorman Thomas CF (1981) replaces Carlos Lee LF (2005) .265, 32, 114 RBI

6. Sixto Lezcano RF (1979) .321, 28Hr, 101 RBI

7. Ben Oglive* LF (1980) .304, 41Hrs, 118 RBI

8. Ted Simmons C (1983) .308, 13 Hr 108 RBI

9. Jeff Cirillo 3b (1999) .326 15 Hr 88 RBI

 

BN1 - George Scott 1b 1975 replaces Richie Sexson 1b 2003

BN2 - Don Money 3b/2b/SS 1978

BN3 - BJ Surhoff* C/3b/OF 1995

BN4 - Larry Hisle OF 1978 replaces JJ Hardy 2007

BN5 - Ryan Braun OF 2007

*Lefty

 

SP1 - Teddy Higuera* (1986)

SP2 - Ben Sheets (2004)

SP3 - Pete Vukovich (1982)

SP4 - Mike Caldwell* (1978)

SP5 - Bill Wegman 1991 replaces Don Sutton (1984)

SP6 - Chris Bosio (1989)

 

RP - Rollie Fingers (1981)

RP - Dan Plesac* (1987)

RP - Francisco Cordero (2007)

RP - Bob Wickman (1997)

RP - Ken Sanders (1970)

 

We ended up in a big argument on the pitching staff, He had 1978 Ron Guidry and was adamant that in a 9 game series that Guidry was an automatic 2 wins, no questions asked, no matter if he was up against Higuera or Caldwell. I said 1, and we settled on 1.5. The other argument was Rivera vs. Fingers. I successfully lobbied for Fingers citing the fact he practically invented the position and went more innings plus his MVP/Cy Young award year.

 

Criteria was 1.) Career numbers, 2.) Impact with team 3.) Best Year. So for example Dave Parker wouldnt have been a great example as he played just one year at the end of his career.

[trwi7]

I would actually put 2003 Geoff Jenkins in LF over Carlos Lee. He hit 28 homers, had a .375 OBP and a .913 OPS as well as much improved defense.

[RyDogg66]

Not a bad choice, I had Jenks as my 6th bench player. Perhaps because Carlos is more effective right now it has skewed my opinion, I do know that Carlos wasnt nearly as good as we thought he was that year.

[RoseBowlMtg]

7. Sixto Lezcano CF (1979) .308, 13Hr, 108 RBI

 

9. Ted Simmons C (1983) .308, 13 Hr 108 RBI

 

Sixto actually was a bit different and you got Simba's great 83 season mixed in there. 28 HR's with 101 RBI's so 15 more HR's but 7 fewer ribbies. Better or worse is up for debate but that is accurate.

[RyDogg66]

yeah I see that now, I just copied from the wrong line.

[BrewCrewForever]

Great job RyDogg. What an amazing team! I to would go with 2003 Jenkins though over Carlos Lee based on all your criteria he would be the better choice I believe. I was actually thinking of what an all-time Brewers team would look like just the other day. Don't know if I would have made a better team then you did.

[sbrylski]

Give me the Yankee fan's roster - I'll import these teams in the OOTP simulator and see who's better!

[Fatter than Joey]

I'd opt for George Scott, (he won 2 legs of the triple crown in 1975) over Sexson -- Multiple GG winner as well. Their OPS+ is the same. Plus the Boomer wore a shark tooth necklace.

 

Interesting that Gorman Thomas isn't on the team.

 

EDIT: -- I'd put Boomer on over Hardy, and let Molitor/Money back up SS.

 

I remember Guidry's 1978 season, and he was incredibly filthy. I remember Caldwell giving him one of his three losses.

[Fatter than Joey]

The other argument was Rivera vs. Fingers.

 

Gossage was probably better than Fingers in the 70s and 80s. (Especially 1981)

[JimH5]

FYI, during Guidry's monster season, when he won something like 14 in a row, it was the Brewers who gave him his first loss.

 

And I love that you would actually hold an argument over whether an imaginary Guidry would win 2 or 1.5 games against an imaginary team. Funny.

[JohnBriggs12]

Sixto Lezcano played RF, not CF.

 

Ben Oglivie played LF not RF.

 

Larry Hisle almost single handidly stopped Guidry's streak at 13 with two HR in Friday night game at County Stadium. His 78 season, .290, 34 HR, 115 RBI has to be on the Brewer roster too.

[BrewCrewForever]

I almost forgot about Gorman he should be on that team maybe ahead of Lezcano.

[Fatter than Joey]

Yeah -- I agree with JB12 -- I'd bump Hardy & Surhoff and add Hisle/Scott

[sbrylski]

For reference, top OPS+ seasons in Brewer history:

 

EDIT: Hmm, coding problems... the data is here.

 

Hisle's 1978 should definitely be up there.

[RyDogg66]

Give me the Yankee fan's roster - I'll import these teams in the OOTP simulator and see who's better!

awesome.

1. Ricky Henderson CF 1985

2. Derek Jeter SS 1999

3. A-Rod 3b 2007

4. Reggie Jackson DH 1980

5. Dave Winfield LF 1984

6. Don Mattingly 1b 1985

7. Paul O'Neil RF 1994

8. Thurmun Munsun C 197

9. Alfonso Soriano 2b 2002

 

BN1 - Bernie Williams 1998

BN2 - Tino Martinez 1997

BN3 - Craig Nettles - 1977

BN4 - Jorge Posada - 2007

BN5 - Willie Randolph - 1980

 

SP1 - Ron Guidry - 1978

SP2 - Andy Pettitte - 2000

SP3 - Roger Clemens - 2001

SP4 - David Cone - 1996

SP5 - David Wells - 19989

SP6 - Ed Figueroa - 1978

 

RP1 - Mariano Rivera - 2005

RP2 - John Wettland - 1996

RP3 - Goose Gossage -1980

RP4 - Dave Raghetti - 1984

RP5 - Jeff Nelson - 1997

 

Let me know!

[iluvlamp]

While waiting for Sam I will chime in and say I would take the Yankees. Braun and Fielder from last year could skew some things though.

[RockCoCougars]

Here is my critique.

 

Catcher and first look good (though I agree that Scott had a heck of a year in '75). For second, I'd take the '79 version of Molitor ahead of '87, because he played very little at second that year. Robin at short is a no-brainer. I'm going to rock the boat a little bit and go with Tailwind Tommy Harper (1970) at third. In the outfield, I'm taking Ben Oglivie (1980) in left(though had he not been traded, Vaughn (1996) would be here), Gorman (1979) in center, and Lezcano (1979) in right. My DH would be Hisle (1978).

 

Your bench looks pretty good.

 

As for pitching, I'd remove Sutton and replace him with Jim Colborn (1973). I'd keep Bosio, but I would use the 1992 version instead of 1989. I agree with everything else. I'd give honorable mention on the starting staff to Moose Haas (1983) and Cal Eldred (1992).

 

For relievers I'd replace Wickman with Doug Jones (1997) everything else is good though.

[RyDogg66]

Yeah -- I agree with JB12 -- I'd bump Hardy & Surhoff and add Hisle/Scott

Who backs up catcher? I think Surhoff has to be on the team for his catching ability and overall utilitiness.

I can see the argument for Carlos Lee off the team and adding 1978 Larry Hisle. We put these teams together in a hurry over lunch today. Also, Hardy out and 2003 Jenkins in would be a good one, except he did get hurt. George Scott would also work over Sexson, but Richie was no slouch with the glove either.

[RyDogg66]

Here is my critique.

 

Catcher and first look good (though I agree that Scott had a heck of a year in '75). For second, I'd take the '79 version of Molitor ahead of '87, because he played very little at second that year. Robin at short is a no-brainer. I'm going to rock the boat a little bit and go with Tailwind Tommy Harper (1970) at third. In the outfield, I'm taking Ben Oglivie (1980) in left(though had he not been traded, Vaughn (1996) would be here), Gorman (1979) in center, and Lezcano (1979) in right. My DH would be Hisle (1978).

 

Your bench looks pretty good.

 

As for pitching, I'd remove Sutton and replace him with Jim Colborn (1973). I'd keep Bosio, but I would use the 1992 version instead of 1989. I agree with everything else. I'd give honorable mention on the starting staff to Moose Haas (1983) and Cal Eldred (1992).

 

For relievers I'd replace Wickman with Doug Jones (1997) everything else is good though.

Thanks, looks like we agree with a lot of what I put down, again did this in a hurry and I agree with a lot of what you guys are saying about players like Hisle, Scott, Harper, Colburn, etc.

You said Hisle as your DH, what do you do with Prince and Cecil Cooper then? They both have to be in the starting lineup in my opinion.

[Fatter than Joey]

Who backs up catcher?

 

With this offense I dont think it matters.... Simba's going to catch 162.

 

George Scott would also work over Sexson, but Richie was no slouch with the glove either.

 

Boomer won like 6 GGs in a row, he was the man, and he wore a shark tooth necklace.

 

I'd probably ope for 1972ish Bobby Murcer over Bernie Williams, Murcer was a beast.

[RyDogg66]

Who backs up catcher?

 

With this offense I dont think it matters.... Simba's going to catch 162.

 

George Scott would also work over Sexson, but Richie was no slouch with the glove either.

 

Boomer won like 6 GGs in a row, he was the man, and he wore a shark tooth necklace.

 

I'd probably ope for 1972ish Bobby Murcer over Bernie Williams, Murcer was a beast.

Gold Gloves I dont care about, you had me at shark tooth necklace. See changes above.

I've gone back and forth on Tommy Harper vs. Jeff Cirillo and I am sticking with Cirillo because he fits more of the criteria because he had a bigger impact on the Brewers as a whole throughout his career, and he has better career numbers. Harper really had that one awesome year in 1970, which is no doubt better than anything Cirillo did, but Cirillo's all around Brewer-ness wins in the end.

[Fatter than Joey]

http://www.checkoutmycards.com/CardImages/Cards/012/545/02F.jpg

[RyDogg66]

Wow, he looks like he was a bad you-know-what.

[BrewCrewForever]

So Im guessing this was modern era Yankees only? I see no Ruth, Mantle, Maris, Dimaggio and so on.

[RyDogg66]

Yes, he was limited to 1970 and on because that was when the BRewers came into existence.