Peter Gammons has gone senile...

[JJHardy7]

Fielder has good feet and he's quick than you'd think but he's not a good fielder. I suppose if he just had to get to the base he'd be a good defensive player but he has to catch and scoop the ball too.

 

I agree with this. I don't agree with Gammons thoughts though. Prince is pretty decent IMO at sharp hit balls towards him and gets to the bag at a decent clip.

 

My biggest issue with him on the defensive side is his range when receiving balls from 3B, SS, and 2B. His scoops aren't that great, but I think his big issue is his lack of height. Is he a decent/good 1B for his physical size? Maybe...I could maybe buy that. The problem is his physical lack of range makes him below average compared to most MLB 1B IMO. I don't know how you really quantify that, but if you watch the Brewers day in and day out that's a pretty easy thing to judge IMO.

[MessiahRp]

Fielder is a GREAT defensive first baseman..."

 

Funketown pointed out a couple of days ago that Tim Kurkjian categorized Prince as "a good athlete, above average defensively and a decent runner." Something must be in the water in Bristol.

 

Every player — even Fielder — is capable of a web gem play on occasion. But memorable plays don't suddenly make a player good defensively.

That might be the case if Gammons even worked for ESPN anymore, which he has not for quite some time now.

[Baldkin]

http://cdn.crooksandliars.com/files/uploads/2009/05/gammons_joba_cee3c.jpghttp://blogs.dallasobserver.com/sportatorium/TV%20-%20Gammons.jpg

 

 

[logan82]

Peter Gammons is an immortal. Cut his head off to gain his power.

[1992casey]

That might be the case if Gammons even worked for ESPN anymore, which he has not for quite some time now.

 

And I knew that, of course. I'm not sure where my brain was. http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/embarassed.gif

 

Of course, Bristol water could have a lingering effect.

[The Truth]

UZR puts Fielder and Teixiera as pretty comparable defenders if I remember correctly. Get used to hearing about that.

Which essentially discredits UZR

 

There are no stats for "balls that an average college first baseman fields easily that Prince never lays a glove on", there are also no stats for "boneheaded plays per week"

[logan82]

UZR puts Fielder and Teixiera as pretty comparable defenders if I remember correctly. Get used to hearing about that.

Which essentially discredits UZR

Not really. It just shows that what people think they see isn't always what actually happens.

 

There are no stats for "balls that an average college first baseman

fields easily that Prince never lays a glove on", there are also no

stats for "boneheaded plays per week"

You are right, UZR measures Fielder against MLB players not college players. UZR doesn't measure balls thrown to 1B. People also think Jeter is a Gold Glove defender.

[Baldkin]

UZR puts Fielder and Teixiera as pretty comparable defenders if I remember correctly. Get used to hearing about that.

Which essentially discredits UZR

Not really. It just shows that what people think they see isn't always what actually happens.

 

There are no stats for "balls that an average college first baseman

fields easily that Prince never lays a glove on", there are also no

stats for "boneheaded plays per week"

You are right, UZR measures Fielder against MLB players not college players. UZR doesn't measure balls thrown to 1B. People also think Jeter is a Gold Glove defender.

That's just not even close to correct....

 

UZR 2008-2011

Tex: +14 (6th in MLB)

Fielder: -14.7 (worst in MLB)

[logan82]

Going year to year though Teixeira has been right around average except for 2008 and previous to 2004. 2011 shouldn't be taken into consideration yet. Point being that Teixiera isn't much of a defender. Average at best but has a reputation as being a really good defender. Like I said, I was going from memory. I haven't looked it up probably since he signed with the Yankees but he was around Fielder defensively at the time despite having a good reputation as a defender.

[JJHardy7]

Well...2006 - 2010

 

Tex: 13.7

Prince: -31.4

 

2006 - 2008 (pre Tex to NYY)

 

Tex: 15.9

Prince: -25.7

 

logan - confused if I'm missing something, but this pretty clearly indicates that what people are maybe seeing (at least with Fielder) is correct. He's been worst or second worst over these periods. Tex has been top 5. Seems to be a pretty decent gap between the two.

[jeffy]

The analysis that he is a good defender is probably based on nothing more than that he had only 4 errors in 2010.

 

This is the same way our TV announcers rate defense.

[logan82]

UZR/150 by year for Teixiera starting 2003

21.4

9.5

3.2

2.0

-1.8

13.7

0.5

-2.4

He hovers around average other than a couple years. Fielder hovers around -7ish. I must have been thinking of just 2009 when Fielder had a better UZR/150. Projections going forward for Fielder and Teixiera would probably put them within 5 runs per season since you need to take 3 years and regress them a bit.

[DHonks]

I'm still waiting for the inevitable to happen... A routine throw from accross the diamond will miss Prince's glove and hit him in the face...and the error will go to the other infielder

[Mr QL]

I don't think Prince is bad defensively relative to other fat 5'10" guys.

[gregmag]

Gammons went on to say the the troubles for teams like the Dodgers and the Mets might be good for teams like the Brewers but it's bad for baseball in general.

 

That's the prevailing view of the national media types. Anything good for teams like the Brewers, Royals, Padres etc. somehow isn't good for baseball?

 

That's the difference between the NFL and MLB right there. The prevailing theory in the NFL is that your league is only as good as it's weakest team. The game itself is entertaining enough to transcend market size. The MLB types want all the focus on the major markets. That implies that the game itself isn't compelling enough.

IMHO, this couldn't be more on the money if it was green ink. It captures a lot of what always has been and remains wrong with Peter Gammons -- despite his considerable knowledge and savvy -- and it nails the biggest problem with MLB. Baseball, to me, is the most entertaining, fascinating team sport in the world. Why can't we have a pro league that favors parity for the sake of maximum competition? Why does MLB have to be just another place where the rich get richer?

 

[HiAndTight]

Fielder is a GREAT defensive first baseman..."

 

Funketown pointed out a couple of days ago that Tim Kurkjian categorized Prince as "a good athlete, above average defensively and a decent runner." Something must be in the water in Bristol.

 

Every player — even Fielder — is capable of a web gem play on occasion. But memorable plays don't suddenly make a player good defensively.

I would argue that he is a good athlete and a decent runner. Above average defensively is something I clearly don't agree with, but his only problem as I see if is his height and stature at 1st. He simply can't get to as many balls out of a stretch as other 1st basemen. But he's not bad with the glove.

 

 

Also, with regard to the first post, I hardly blame Gammons for not having become resolved to the idea that Prince is gone a year ago when our own owner seems to genuinely want to bring him back.

[Funketown]

Perhaps when people say Fielder is a "good defender", they are really saying he's just way better than they expected. I mean, he is bad, but he isn't horrendously bad. More likely, Gammons is senile.