Brewers Miss Out On 2025 Gold Glove Awards

7 hours ago, Frisbee Slider said:

For being the best regular season team in baseball, did we or will we win any individual awards in any category? 🙂

Manager of the Year if that counts. Other than that nope and honestly don’t think there’s really an argument for any Brewers player to get an award this year.

17 hours ago, Jason Wang said:

They combined for just 31 DRS, placing them 11th in MLB. Jackson Chourio, Isaac Collins, and Joey Ortiz accumulated negative DRS

First, on this part... this is not the most mature response, but this is stupid. 

I know, I know... "the eye test" is a bad way to judge a player when you have data, but... if you watch every game like most of us on here do, does anyone truly believe Ortiz was a NEGATIVE defender?

Ortiz is top ~10-15 in OAA... and I just watched him enough and I've seen other SS's. He's in that upper tier. 

I'll buy(barely) Chourio as he's still developing in the OF. He gets poor reads at times and doesn't know when to come in or play it safe(tends to play it safe). I think he's at his best in CF running down balls in the gap. I think it's easier to get a read on the ball. 

I'd even buy Collins. 

But Ortiz?

As for the Gold Gloves, I don't want to say it's a good thing no Brewers won one, but... it kinda is. Gone are the days of a guy starting 28 games at 1B and being named the Gold Glove winner because he was a really good hitter. The players that won them deserved them. 

20 minutes ago, Jason Wang said:

Your frustrations are noted and I commiserate!

Most importantly... in this context, they're not at ALL directed toward you. Good article... and those are just the facts. Writers use DRS and OAA and they have to choose what they rely on.

I was SOLELY critiquing the metric, grades...however they arrived at it.

20 minutes ago, Jason Wang said:

I should clarify that while a slight implication may have been made that the Brewers were worse defensively this year, I deliberately tried to avoid saying that the players (Chourio, Ortiz, and Collins) were bad defenders and just wanted to note that they did not grade well when it came to DRS.

Again, it was fair and I thought it was pretty clear they were worse this year. Last years team was incredible defensively... particularly with Bauers at 1B(you really talk about throwing guys over there, but you appreciate the impact a really good defender at 1B can make).

I thought(just eye test) you could see some players regress a bit. Turang... still an outstanding 2B, but he played a little SS. Seemed like he was pressing. Didn't play great there. Also some errors or misplays I didn't see last year.

Contreras, 3B as a position. Ortiz was outstanding last year. Durbin was awesome for what we expected, but I wouldn't say over the course of the year he was a great 3B, just great relative to expectations. Last year Adames was the "anchor" pulling our defense down per DRS and... that was another I thought was silly, but still, I thought maybe that was Ortiz getting to so many balls... as is the rule at 3rd, if you can get to it, it's yours. And it really hurt Adames who may be at his strongest going back in the hole, backhanding a ball and then firing it to 1B. 

I love what our defense looks like going forward. Almost every prospect SHOULD be able to handle their position defensively save for maybe Wilken, Adams, possibly Fischer if they're 3B. But they should be 1B/LF and Lara, Pratt, Quero, Made, those three at 1B... elite defense should be a staple of Brewers baseball for a while. 

8 hours ago, BrewerFan said:

First, on this part... this is not the most mature response, but this is stupid. 

I know, I know... "the eye test" is a bad way to judge a player when you have data, but... if you watch every game like most of us on here do, does anyone truly believe Ortiz was a NEGATIVE defender?

Ortiz is top ~10-15 in OAA... and I just watched him enough and I've seen other SS's. He's in that upper tier. 

I'll buy(barely) Chourio as he's still developing in the OF. He gets poor reads at times and doesn't know when to come in or play it safe(tends to play it safe). I think he's at his best in CF running down balls in the gap. I think it's easier to get a read on the ball. 

I'd even buy Collins. 

But Ortiz?

 

 

As for the Gold Gloves, I don't want to say it's a good thing no Brewers won one, but... it kinda is. Gone are the days of a guy starting 28 games at 1B and being named the Gold Glove winner because he was a really good hitter. The players that won them deserved them. 

 

Considering the two systems disagree on value I think this is one area where the eye test still has equal value. At this stage the value of defensive metrics are in the attempt more than the result. Medicine had to go through the five humors and blood letting stage to get to where it is today. We're just at the "fetch me a leech" stage with defensive metrics.

I agree it's good to see gold gloves be taken more seriously now.