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    Where Does the Roster Stand Post Renfroe Trade?


    Nate Palmer

    After the big trade of Hunter Renfroe, where does the Brewers roster stand as major league baseball prepares for the upcoming Winter Meetings? 

    Image courtesy of © Tommy Gilligan-USA TODAY Sports

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    Last week was a busy week across major league baseball as teams had a few deadlines to take action on. The Milwaukee Brewers were as busy as anyone as decisions on the 40-man roster had to be made as well as what arbitration-eligible players would be tendered contracts. Among the moves, fan-favorite Brent Suter was waived, claimed, and agreed to a contract with the Colorado Rockies. 

    On top of that, Tuesday night, the Brewers also swung a trade with the Los Angeles Angels offloading Hunter Renfroe’s contract and acquiring three pitchers in return. After all that roster movement, major league baseball gets ready for the Winter Meetings, which begin on December 4th. Here are some of the remaining questions for the Brewers 2023 roster.

    Collecting catchers
    As of right now, the 40-man boasts four catchers. The Brewers did tender Victor Caratini a contract. He currently slots in as the starting catcher. The other three catchers include two prospects, Mario Feliciano and Alex Jackson, alongside recently acquired Payton Henry

    The Brewers could go into the season with Caratini starting and one of the other three catchers on the 40-man as the backup and get some decent results. The question going into the Winter Meetings remains if the Brewers may look to upgrade at catcher, pushing Caratini to the bench and adding some needed offense simultaneously. 

    Free agent names include Willson Contreras, Christian Vazquez, and reunion with Omar Narvaez. Matt Arnold could also have conversations with the Blue Jays, who are reportedly shopping their backstops in trade. 

    Relief Help on the Way?
    Devin Williams will continue to provide a solid backend to the bullpen. Without Josh Hader, Taylor Rogers, and Trevor Rosenthal there is room to build around the complimentary pieces around Williams. Matt Bush and Adrian Houser (who right now is listed as a long reliever on Roster Resource) will return after agreeing to contracts and adding Javy Guerra through a trade. 

    While there can be dreams of adding one of the big names on the free agent market like Kenley Jansen, even the mid-tier relievers would help this bullpen. That may be the idea behind two of the pitchers acquired in the Renfroe deal. While Janson Junk is slated to compete for the rotation, according to Arnold, Adam Seminaris, or Elvis Peguero could realistically figure into the bullpen at some point in 2023. 

    Of course, there are always the off-the-radar moves that could happen and do happen every offseason. Bill Ripken has one in mind for the Brewers. 

    Payroll Expectations
    The Brewers ended last season with a payroll of around $137 million. All signs pointed to the Crew needing to find ways to cut some of their payroll to fill gaps on the roster for next season or sign key players like Brandon Woodruff, Corbin Burnes, and Willy Adames to extensions. 

    Before last night it was hard to see how the Brewers were going to move forward with $126 million on the payroll, according to Roster Resource. It always seemed like with the Brewers payroll limits that it would be challenging to fill out the active roster with both Kolten Wong’s $10 million option (with a $2 million buyout) and Renfroe’s estimated $11.2 million in arbitration money on the books. With Renfroe in LA, there is certainly more room for signings or extensions. Even though the chances have likely slimmed, with some teams still seeking out second base help (looking at you, Mariners), there is still the chance something could happen with Wong out there. 

    The hard part with Renfore off the roster and potentially Wong is that there is no sure way to replace their offense from within the organization. Arnold seems confident in the young outfielders the Brewers have. Garrett Mitchell leads the way in that conversation, as he did his best to prove himself in 28 games this past season, hitting .311/.373/.459 for a 136 wRC+. It will remain to be seen if Arnold is as comfortable with Tyrone Taylor as an outfielder that will receive significant playing time. 

    Speaking of Wong and infield bats...

    The Infield
    Even if Wong remains on the roster, how confident can the Brewers be in either Luis Urias or Mike Brosseau as the team's starting third baseman? With third base being a traditionally easy place to add offense, will Arnold consider poking around during the Winter Meetings to see if the team could upgrade?  

    The free agent market isn't impressive this offseason, with Josh Turner leading the group. There is always the possibility for another trade, or how confident the Brewers are in the recent 40-man add and prospect Brice Turang?

    On the other side of the diamond, there is shaping up to be a potentially strange platoon between the likes of Rowdy Tellez, Jon Singleton, and Keston Hiura. Heading into the Winter Meetings the first base/designated hitter role looks like an area where some movement could also happen.  

    The offense was already a question mark before trading away Renfroe’s bat. Eyes will undoubtedly be on Arnold during the Winter Meetings and beyond to see if he attempts to add offense in some fashion before Spring Training.

    What questions remain for you when it comes to the Brewers roster?

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    2 hours ago, Lajitas said:

    It's based off of his being cost-prohibitive to the Brewers.  Anyone that can't see that is silly.  Or just flat-out dumb.

    Yeah...you're right. It's not possible the Brewers who are trading Renfroe and possibly Wong could afford a 1B projected to get ~15M a year(which would STILL leave them with a lower payroll than last year). 

    I really thought you had more insight than this...I'm starting to realize, you don't really offer any insight. 

     

    2 hours ago, Lajitas said:

    It's based off of his being cost-prohibitive to the Brewers.  Anyone that can't see that is silly.  Or just flat-out dumb.

    Yeah...you're right. It's not possible the Brewers who are trading Renfroe and possibly Wong could afford a 1B projected to get ~15M a year(which would STILL leave them with a lower payroll than last year). 

    I really thought you had more insight than this...I'm starting to realize, you don't really offer any insight. 

     

    On 11/25/2022 at 9:12 PM, Brock Beauchamp said:

    Which is why I've been ready to move on from Hiura for awhile. I hope the Brewers can get an A ball lottery ticket, move on, and replace his roster spot with someone who complements the lineup much more.

    He would have improved the lineup a ton if our management was wise enough to limit his AB vs. LHP.
    You wouldn't get rid of a LHH who raked against RHP; it was foolish to use Hiura as they did.

     

    On 11/25/2022 at 9:12 PM, Brock Beauchamp said:

    Which is why I've been ready to move on from Hiura for awhile. I hope the Brewers can get an A ball lottery ticket, move on, and replace his roster spot with someone who complements the lineup much more.

    He would have improved the lineup a ton if our management was wise enough to limit his AB vs. LHP.
    You wouldn't get rid of a LHH who raked against RHP; it was foolish to use Hiura as they did.

     

    6 hours ago, Robocaller said:

    He would have improved the lineup a ton if our management was wise enough to limit his AB vs. LHP.
    You wouldn't get rid of a LHH who raked against RHP; it was foolish to use Hiura as they did.

     

    The way things stand, Hiura is still a mystery. With the way he was used last year, I was kind of surprised that they offered him arby. Does that mean they envision him playing a big role as 1B/DH/2B, or did they just offer arby so they could flip him for someone in trade?

    Outside of Hiura, things are starting to shape up, and their plans for Hiura could determine what else they do.

    The OF looks pretty set with Yelich, Mitchell, Frelick, Taylor and possibly a 5th OF from the AAA group.

    Adames is SS, Urias will probably play 3B vs RHP and 2B vs LHP, with Brosseau at 3B vs LHP and filling a utility role otherwise. Wong is at 2B vs RHP, Tellez is at 1B. Caratini will fill one catcher spot and we'll probably find another, hopefully a starter. We'll probably pick up a utility guy who can back up SS.

    So, what do we do with Hiura? If he is going to be our main DH, then we could be pretty much set the way we are, other than picking up a catcher and a utility guy. They didn't seem to trust him last year, so that would be a surprise, but why offer him arby if they're just going to sit him on the bench? He isn't a good defender, so his value as a bench player is limited, and he should only be on the roster if he's going to pair with Tellez in a 1B/DH combo, hopefully finding someone who can fill in vs LHP.

    6 hours ago, Robocaller said:

    He would have improved the lineup a ton if our management was wise enough to limit his AB vs. LHP.
    You wouldn't get rid of a LHH who raked against RHP; it was foolish to use Hiura as they did.

     

    The way things stand, Hiura is still a mystery. With the way he was used last year, I was kind of surprised that they offered him arby. Does that mean they envision him playing a big role as 1B/DH/2B, or did they just offer arby so they could flip him for someone in trade?

    Outside of Hiura, things are starting to shape up, and their plans for Hiura could determine what else they do.

    The OF looks pretty set with Yelich, Mitchell, Frelick, Taylor and possibly a 5th OF from the AAA group.

    Adames is SS, Urias will probably play 3B vs RHP and 2B vs LHP, with Brosseau at 3B vs LHP and filling a utility role otherwise. Wong is at 2B vs RHP, Tellez is at 1B. Caratini will fill one catcher spot and we'll probably find another, hopefully a starter. We'll probably pick up a utility guy who can back up SS.

    So, what do we do with Hiura? If he is going to be our main DH, then we could be pretty much set the way we are, other than picking up a catcher and a utility guy. They didn't seem to trust him last year, so that would be a surprise, but why offer him arby if they're just going to sit him on the bench? He isn't a good defender, so his value as a bench player is limited, and he should only be on the roster if he's going to pair with Tellez in a 1B/DH combo, hopefully finding someone who can fill in vs LHP.

    16 minutes ago, monty57 said:

    The way things stand, Hiura is still a mystery. With the way he was used last year, I was kind of surprised that they offered him arby. Does that mean they envision him playing a big role as 1B/DH/2B, or did they just offer arby so they could flip him for someone in trade?

    Outside of Hiura, things are starting to shape up, and their plans for Hiura could determine what else they do.

    The OF looks pretty set with Yelich, Mitchell, Frelick, Taylor and possibly a 5th OF from the AAA group.

    Adames is SS, Urias will probably play 3B vs RHP and 2B vs LHP, with Brosseau at 3B vs LHP and filling a utility role otherwise. Wong is at 2B vs RHP, Tellez is at 1B. Caratini will fill one catcher spot and we'll probably find another, hopefully a starter. We'll probably pick up a utility guy who can back up SS.

    So, what do we do with Hiura? If he is going to be our main DH, then we could be pretty much set the way we are, other than picking up a catcher and a utility guy. They didn't seem to trust him last year, so that would be a surprise, but why offer him arby if they're just going to sit him on the bench? He isn't a good defender, so his value as a bench player is limited, and he should only be on the roster if he's going to pair with Tellez in a 1B/DH combo, hopefully finding someone who can fill in vs LHP.

    Hiura is an enigma. He's a terrible fielding right-handed hitter who oddly and frustratingly can't touch lefty pitching. IMO this team would be better off dealing him and then finding a player who actually compliments Tellez's skillset, not one who poorly mimics it. They need a RHH 1B/DH type who has a clue against lefties. I'd be extremely surprised if he's back.

    16 minutes ago, monty57 said:

    The way things stand, Hiura is still a mystery. With the way he was used last year, I was kind of surprised that they offered him arby. Does that mean they envision him playing a big role as 1B/DH/2B, or did they just offer arby so they could flip him for someone in trade?

    Outside of Hiura, things are starting to shape up, and their plans for Hiura could determine what else they do.

    The OF looks pretty set with Yelich, Mitchell, Frelick, Taylor and possibly a 5th OF from the AAA group.

    Adames is SS, Urias will probably play 3B vs RHP and 2B vs LHP, with Brosseau at 3B vs LHP and filling a utility role otherwise. Wong is at 2B vs RHP, Tellez is at 1B. Caratini will fill one catcher spot and we'll probably find another, hopefully a starter. We'll probably pick up a utility guy who can back up SS.

    So, what do we do with Hiura? If he is going to be our main DH, then we could be pretty much set the way we are, other than picking up a catcher and a utility guy. They didn't seem to trust him last year, so that would be a surprise, but why offer him arby if they're just going to sit him on the bench? He isn't a good defender, so his value as a bench player is limited, and he should only be on the roster if he's going to pair with Tellez in a 1B/DH combo, hopefully finding someone who can fill in vs LHP.

    Hiura is an enigma. He's a terrible fielding right-handed hitter who oddly and frustratingly can't touch lefty pitching. IMO this team would be better off dealing him and then finding a player who actually compliments Tellez's skillset, not one who poorly mimics it. They need a RHH 1B/DH type who has a clue against lefties. I'd be extremely surprised if he's back.

    7 hours ago, Robocaller said:

    He would have improved the lineup a ton if our management was wise enough to limit his AB vs. LHP.
    You wouldn't get rid of a LHH who raked against RHP; it was foolish to use Hiura as they did.

     

    No arguments from me about that. His usage was baffling.

    7 hours ago, Robocaller said:

    He would have improved the lineup a ton if our management was wise enough to limit his AB vs. LHP.
    You wouldn't get rid of a LHH who raked against RHP; it was foolish to use Hiura as they did.

     

    No arguments from me about that. His usage was baffling.

    2 hours ago, True Blue Brew Crew said:

    If the Brewers have a less than 1% chance of signing a player like Jose Abreu, just fold the franchise. 

    Thankfully that's not even close to being accurate.

    Percentage doesnt matter, we won't be signing Abreu... Can't compete with large market teams. 

    2 hours ago, True Blue Brew Crew said:

    If the Brewers have a less than 1% chance of signing a player like Jose Abreu, just fold the franchise. 

    Thankfully that's not even close to being accurate.

    Percentage doesnt matter, we won't be signing Abreu... Can't compete with large market teams. 

    30 minutes ago, DR28 said:

    Percentage doesnt matter, we won't be signing Abreu... Can't compete with large market teams. 

    I don't think we'll sign him, 2023 will be Abreu's age 36 season, so teams looking at signing him will probably be looking at a 1 or 2 year deal. With the Brewers' probable financial constraints heading into next season, I think you are correct that they won't be able to offer him the highest-dollar-value, short-term deal, and he will very likely not be a Brewer.

    How it could get done:

    1) He likes living in Chicago. Milwaukee is close to Chicago. I'm not sure of his family situation, but they could keep their home  in Chicago and he could get an apartment in Milwaukee and only be a short drive away. He's made plenty of money, so maybe at this point in his career he'd forgo some money in order to not have to uproot his (and his family's) life.

    2) We add a year onto the end of the deal. I don't like doing this, as it's probably going to be a year we'd wish we didn't have him, but this was one of the main reasons Cain signed here. 

    I think that if the team is looking at guaranteeing money into 2025 or beyond, they will first look at extending Burnes, Woodruff or Adames. If those talks are going nowhere, then they may look at signing a bigger-money free agent.

     

    30 minutes ago, DR28 said:

    Percentage doesnt matter, we won't be signing Abreu... Can't compete with large market teams. 

    I don't think we'll sign him, 2023 will be Abreu's age 36 season, so teams looking at signing him will probably be looking at a 1 or 2 year deal. With the Brewers' probable financial constraints heading into next season, I think you are correct that they won't be able to offer him the highest-dollar-value, short-term deal, and he will very likely not be a Brewer.

    How it could get done:

    1) He likes living in Chicago. Milwaukee is close to Chicago. I'm not sure of his family situation, but they could keep their home  in Chicago and he could get an apartment in Milwaukee and only be a short drive away. He's made plenty of money, so maybe at this point in his career he'd forgo some money in order to not have to uproot his (and his family's) life.

    2) We add a year onto the end of the deal. I don't like doing this, as it's probably going to be a year we'd wish we didn't have him, but this was one of the main reasons Cain signed here. 

    I think that if the team is looking at guaranteeing money into 2025 or beyond, they will first look at extending Burnes, Woodruff or Adames. If those talks are going nowhere, then they may look at signing a bigger-money free agent.

     

    9 hours ago, UpandIn said:

    Yeah...you're right. It's not possible the Brewers who are trading Renfroe and possibly Wong could afford a 1B projected to get ~15M a year(which would STILL leave them with a lower payroll than last year). 

    I really thought you had more insight than this...I'm starting to realize, you don't really offer any insight. 

     

    First, Abreu is projected to get around $20 M a year, not $15 M.  Second, spending the $10 M saved from trading Renfroe is better spent on upgrading the bullpen.  Money spent on one position is money that is not available to spend on others.

    Abreu/Turang and the current bullpen is NOT an upgrade over Tellez/Wong and two or three more bullpen arms.

    9 hours ago, UpandIn said:

    Yeah...you're right. It's not possible the Brewers who are trading Renfroe and possibly Wong could afford a 1B projected to get ~15M a year(which would STILL leave them with a lower payroll than last year). 

    I really thought you had more insight than this...I'm starting to realize, you don't really offer any insight. 

     

    First, Abreu is projected to get around $20 M a year, not $15 M.  Second, spending the $10 M saved from trading Renfroe is better spent on upgrading the bullpen.  Money spent on one position is money that is not available to spend on others.

    Abreu/Turang and the current bullpen is NOT an upgrade over Tellez/Wong and two or three more bullpen arms.

    On 11/24/2022 at 9:43 AM, Brock Beauchamp said:

    To me, the biggest question mark is pitching development. The Brewers obviously had an amazing run of developing Burnes, Woodruff, Peralta, Hader, Lauer, etc. Can they do it again? 

    The Brewers didn't develop Lauer, and I'd go as far as to say they didn't develop Hader either...

    On 11/24/2022 at 9:43 AM, Brock Beauchamp said:

    To me, the biggest question mark is pitching development. The Brewers obviously had an amazing run of developing Burnes, Woodruff, Peralta, Hader, Lauer, etc. Can they do it again? 

    The Brewers didn't develop Lauer, and I'd go as far as to say they didn't develop Hader either...

    1 hour ago, Hopper said:

    The Brewers didn't develop Lauer, and I'd go as far as to say they didn't develop Hader either...

    Both improved after coming to the Brewers. However you want to divvy up the development of that, the Brewers deserve at least some of the credit (I'd personally argue most of the credit but YMMV).

    1 hour ago, Hopper said:

    The Brewers didn't develop Lauer, and I'd go as far as to say they didn't develop Hader either...

    Both improved after coming to the Brewers. However you want to divvy up the development of that, the Brewers deserve at least some of the credit (I'd personally argue most of the credit but YMMV).

    13 hours ago, Hopper said:

    The Brewers didn't develop Lauer, and I'd go as far as to say they didn't develop Hader either...

    What do you consider developing a pitcher then?

    Hader had spent a little time in AA for Houston. He got to Milwaukee, his K's kept going up, two years later he was the 33rd ranked prospect in one top 100, 38 in MLB Pipeline(he wasn't top 100 before the trade). 

    Phillips and Santana were the top two prospects in that trade. Houser had thrown 33 innings above HiA.

    So who did develop Hader? The Orioles? The Astros? Or the team that spent the most time with him and turned him into a top 40 prospect?

     

    "Developing" a pitcher is a lot more than simply drafting him. It's...well, developing him into a MLB pitcher. 
    With Lauer, they had him throw his slider about 11% more and his 4 seamer about 11% less...

     

    By the logic you're using, did we develop Peralta? We didn't draft him...at what point does the team that got him to the Majors get credit for developing him? Example...if Makenzie Gore breaks out and becomes an ace with the Nats, I'd consider them having developed him...particularly given his struggles, not the Padres who rode his raw talent and then didn't help him make the adjustments. 

    Corey Knebel is another guy. We got him to change the way he pitched...he became an elite late inning reliever. 




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