RockCoCougars
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Suppan mentioned on Slate's "Hang Up And Listen" podcast
RockCoCougars replied to BCZF's topic in Milwaukee Brewers Talk
This is a case in which I would love to be wrong for the Brewers sake.... but I would bet that Suppan gets hit like a BP pitcher his first few starts. If this happens, and Soup is extended a long leash, the populist anger may escalate into populist rage with a mob marching to Miller Park with torches and pitchforks. At any rate, we'll have a better feel for things in a matter of hours. -
I'd do 5 years $125 million, but that's as high as I would go. That's basically Fielder's salary now plus Suppan's and part of Hall's for this season. I tend to overvalue Fielder more than most here for two reasons. First, I don't think that the Brewers would get nearly the haul in a trade as many think they would unless you trade him this season at the deadline, which you hopefully can't do because the team is in contention. I think the value dips big time after the deadline this year. Secondly, I think the Brewers should do everything they can to sign Fielder because let's face it, they will not attract talent of his stature to come to Milwaukee. The Brewers will have to overpay free agent pitchers to come here as well (see Suppan, Wolf)- therefore I think there is a flaw in the logic that you can just take what you would have given to Prince, and use it to overhaul the pitching staff. Where else are they going to get the bang for the buck? That said, if Prince and Boras are truly looking for $200 million, you have to let him walk.
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I think that it would take 4 and $30 million to get it done. Even at that rate, I'm in favor of it. It's a risk, but as he showed last year, Weeks has immense potential. Now is the time to sign him because though his health is a risk for the team, it also has to be on his mind which should make him more amenable to locking in. If he has a big year this year, like I think he is, forget about it at that price.
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How can a major league pitcher get knocked around like this by mostly 19 and 20 year old kids? I don't want to hear any 'rust' excuses either, he's been pitching all spring.
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OK. You found his best seven game stretch (in which he allowed 60 baserunners in 42 innings, while striking out 23, but I digress...). A quick check of the gamelogs shows that outside of those 7 starts, the Brewers were 7-16 in the rest of his starts, 3-9 after the break. I don't know what you're inferring here, but I've been a huge Brewers fan since I was four years old. That said, putting Suppan on the mound is a decision based solely on money/politics and not winning. Personally, I won't cheer against the team, but I fully expect that Suppan will get rocked his first few starts to the point where he has to go on the disabled list again. Obviously, that will sacrifice a few games, but I'd rather have that and minimize the damage than a string of 8-7 or 11-6 type games where Suppan struggles through 5 innings and gets the win. That will only bolster the Suppan apologist company line - "he has _ wins", "he keeps us in games", "he's a gamer", "he had some bad luck out there today", etc., etc. This isn't 1999 anymore, where the team could afford to run a Jim Abbott out there for 15 starts. Suppan making several starts could conceivably cost the team a playoff berth. I'd prefer to minimize those starts, if that takes a couple of blowout losses in April, so be it.
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I was the poster who will bet against the Brewers when Soup starts. Would you bet on them? Anyone who's seen Suppan throw for the past year should realize that he can't get anyone out anymore with the 'stuff' that he has. He throws a straight as a string 87 mph (on a good day) fastball, and has control issues with his off speed pitches. He might be able to put together a 'decent 'start or two here and there, but he's not going to be effective over the course of a season- he's done. The Brewers should get past the politics at play and send him on his way. In my opinion, stubbornly starting Suppan for whatever reason shows me that the team is not totally committed to winning. If that's the case, then I don't really feel bad laying a wager against them.
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I'll agree with you here. This move has clearly been dictated by Attanasio, no doubt in my mind. For as much as Macha is skewered around here (including by me), he's not stupid enough to make this decision. I found it funny that Suppan was the first player that Attanasio mentioned on the broadcast Monday- either Suppan is one of Mark's 'pets' or he has some pictures or something. At any rate, here' s my prediction for Soup: 3 or 4 starts with an ERA over 7 and a WHIP over 2, then the neck 'flares up' again- or actually, on second thought, it has been 'bothering him' all along- hence the poor performance.
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Agreed. I don't know why he seems to get a free pass when guys like Hammonds, Sean Berry and even Wes Helms were vilified. Who's to say that Suppan is not just coasting by collecting his paychecks? He does have a restaurant to run you know. On another note, I remember commenting in the original Suppan signing thread that he was overweight and an injury risk, Sheets took a lot of guff about his supposedly poor conditioning, but it seems that his rear is about half the size of Soup's. Where has the heat been for Suppan on this?
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First of all, the odds of Suppan throwing reasonably well for 4 to 5 consecutive starts are slim to none. If people are smoking the ball right at guys, he may be able to get through one or two starts, pitching 'well' with smoke and mirrors, but not 4 to 5 starts. Secondly, even assuming that were to amazingly happen, I don't think that Suppan would have any trade value unless the Brewers were willing to absorb at least 90% of his salary. Nobody's going to commit more than a million or so to a guy when there are scores of pitchers with better stuff around AAA, or even out on the street. I guess if the Brewers want to risk sabatoging the season in an attempt to save a million dollars, this is the strategy they should take. If they want to actually have the best chance of winning, Soup would have been pink slipped after his brutal performance down in Arizona. Instead, they chose to protect him once again.... now his neck is the excuse. The only positive spin that I can put on this is that I may have to load my sportsbook account so I can make some money by betting against the Brewers (for the first time in my life) when Suppan starts- seems like easy money. I'll probably parlay the opponents with the over as well.
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I'm not sure that you could say that Suppan was a 'coveted' free agent at the time. The Cardinals decided to let him walk, and I don't remember reading that he had offers from multiple teams. It seems almost like the Brewers were bidding against themselves. Going further, it can be spun any way you want- Suppan was not signed to be an innings eating back end of the rotation guy. That's not the case, he was clearly signed as a #2 or #3 starter (depending on where you would slot Capuano) to essentially replace Davis a few weeks after he was traded for that steaming pile Estrada. This is one reason that I'm apprehensive about the Wolf signing because it seems very similar. L.A. had no interest, and the only other team that seems to have mild interest was the Mets. Chances are that if Melvin would have waited another 6 weeks he could have gotten him for much less money and possibly only a two year committment.
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Opening Day stories from those who attended?
RockCoCougars replied to BadgerFan's topic in Milwaukee Brewers Talk
There are two places that I would never bring my kids- Las Vegas, and Miller Park on Opening Day. That's just the way it is, but there are 80 other games that I can take them to. -
My greatest day was when the Brewers released ___________!
RockCoCougars replied to pmg4's topic in Milwaukee Brewers Talk
Not 100% on this. I'm pretty sure that Stubbs actually worked out a buyout agreement with the team that allowed him to become a free agent and allowed the team to recoup some of his salary. Wouldn't it be nice if Suppan showed some class and did the same? A guy can dream, can't he? -
My greatest day was when the Brewers released ___________!
RockCoCougars replied to pmg4's topic in Milwaukee Brewers Talk
Most of these guys weren't released, but they make my list anyway.... Jose Hernandez Marquis Grissom Rick Manning Jaimie Cocanower Jerry Augustine Roy Howell Jim Wohlford Pedro Garcia -
Point taken, but Grissom and Hammond's contracts combined don't add up to what Suppan's deal. Going further, back then, those contracts weren't as costly because the team wasn't competitive anyway. For the past two years, Suppan's contract has been an albatross around the neck of a competitive team. It has limited their ability to add pieces because they are about at their payroll limit. Don't get me started on how I feel that this deal also cost the team Sheets..... By the way, 'productive' is a relative term in my view. It's funny that you mention Grissom, because he never took the heat that he should have. Probably because he seemed like a nice guy like Suppan. It seemed like he didn't try when he was with the Brewers, because he was more productive before and after he got here.
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Why is Jeff Hammonds hated on then for Dean Taylor's mistake? While I agree that Melvin should bear the brunt of the fury for this decison, Suppan should take some heat as well, because he hasn't come close to earning that contract.
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I hate Soup as a player. I think that up until recently, he's gotten a big time free pass from many because he seems to be a 'good guy'. I think that the tide has finally turned against him though. Fact is, he hasn't lived up to his end of the contract. In my opinion, next to Bando's idiotic move not to offer Molitor a fair contract, the Suppan signing is the second biggest mistake in team history. By the way, I feel it's almost impossible to 'degrade' from Suppan. I'd have to see the slow pitch softball guy in action before I could make a final decision on that...
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I completely agree, which is why I stated that I believe Hart should get another chance to try to get things together. I was more comparing Gerut and/or Edmonds to Dye. I just don't see how dropping $3-$4 million on a 36 year old who missed spring training, would be switching leagues, and has the fielding acumen of- well, a DH makes any sense. I think I've said it before here, but it seems that this year, Hart has replaced Weeks as the 'rookie bust' whipping boy of this team for many fans. Last spring, many wanted to get rid of Weeks as well, and replace him with someone like Kelly Johnson. Hart has not been good since the all-star game, but come on, he hasn't been Turner Ward bad. Give him another chance to break out of things before you give him away in a trade in order to sign a 36 year old player who has 99% most likely seen his best years come and go.
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Unless Dye is willing to take an Edmonds-like contract with no guarantee of playing time, I don't like the idea one bit. I'd rather give Hart one more chance because he's eight years younger. If he falters, you go to Gerut or Edmonds, both of whom I think can put up numbers almost as good as Dye at the plate, without being complete butchers in right as Dye is.
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happy 40th birthday to the mlb milwaukee brewers
RockCoCougars replied to djoctagone's topic in Milwaukee Brewers Talk
Lew Krause and Phil Roof, I think. For a guy who pitched two pretty mediocre seasons for the Brewers, it seems that Krause has gotten a lot of notoriety (and free trips to Milwaukee) over the years for making this start. -
Maybe they just DL'd Suppan to shield him from his Opening Day 'welcome' to Miller Park. I've come to the point where I've decided that if Suppan makes one start this season, we know who is calling the shots, and that's Mark A.. Love them or hate them, Melvin and Macha are both baseball men, and even though they may be stubborn in the name of 'patience', they just can't be this stupid. I think that most of us have had a job where the boss has some stupid idea that we know will be a complete and utter failure, but we are forced to carry it out because they will not listen to reason. I think that may be happening here. There is no doubt in my mind that if/when Suppan makes his start, it will be a complete disaster- I hope it's at Miller Park.
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I think they've been sending Soup's MRI's to some of those shady 'pain clinic' doctors in Florida, we've been hearing about where people will drive hundreds of miles in order to get painkiller prescriptions. Apparently those guys can find some stuff on an MRI that most doctors can't.
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When they get to that 'fork in the road', they better just stick it in Suppan- he is done. Scour the waiver wires for end of camp pitching cuts and pick a few up for depth at Nashville. Send Soup back to the restaurant after his stint on the DL. Everyone knows this 'injury' is nonsense, let the guy go, and if he wants to continue playing he can scour for a job elsewhere. Why risk getting the player's union upset at the Brewers again after the Hardy fiasco last year?
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I guess they faked the MRI last year too~ This one might actually be a made up injury given the timing and the roster crunch but the past 2 years were not.Have you seen the MRI from last year?
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Good God, quit protecting the guy's reputation and get rid of him. Sometimes it's hard to admit a mistake, but a good business needs to recognize one and deal with it. Who cares about Soup's feelings? He has about 40 million reasons not to be upset with the team. He is the one who didn't live up to his end of the deal. Another "injury" huh? I wonder if people are still so ardent the "injuries" Suppan had the past couple years were legit. Looks like it took some time to get him to go along with it this time. What happened to our horse- the 'innings eating' big-game pitcher? He seems to be 'hurt' more than Sheets these days.
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Good point. This is exactly why Suppan should have been jettisoned last year before Hall. Regardless of what he does at the plate, Hall still has some value because he can play several positions -with good defense, at least in the infield. Joe Inglett seems like a step down from Bill Hall, but that's just me. Suppan on the other hand, has and had negative value, and despite the arguments that he was needed by the team last year, any organization should have had several arms in AAA that could replace his skill set adequately.
