Harold Hutchison

Why can't Stokes be a Khris Davis with a little less power but faster and better defensively (and a better walk rate and lower K rate)? He was only 21 this past season. 40-HR seasons are not likely, but in 2014 Davis put up a 2.1 bWAR season with 22 HRs and a .756 OPS. Davis only once hit 20 HRs in a season in the minors, 22 in low A at Wisconsin at the age of 22 (*probably would have hit 20 if not injured in 2012, but he was also 24 that season). Stokes hit 20 at one and two levels higher and at a year younger. In the case of Stokes, 2018 could tell the tale. Best case, he explodes like Garrett Cooper did, and makes things interesting. Worst case, he reverts to the 5th OF ceiling. The OBP skills have been there all along, the speed's been there all along, but the power is new, and not in a High Desert/Colorado Springs environment. If he is for real (and the stat lines suggest he is), things become very intriguing. He does make the notion of dealing Brinson or Santana for help elsewhere on the team a lot less painful. He may be 90% of Brinson offensively, but if a Brinson trade brings in a controllable TOR starter for four years... then the Brewers come out way ahead. Also, while his power numbers would be a slight drop from Santana's, he does offer speed and better defense.

At that price, wish it were three guaranteed, with the two options! Only complaint.

It's the walk and strikeout rates. Carroll: 28 BB and 40 K in 233 ABs Hiura: 13 BB and 37 K in 167 ABs

No and NO on trading Harrison, Erceg or Peralta. To me those guys are conerstones of the future, unless we are getting a bonified ACE with years of control, I wouldn't even consider moving any of the guys mentioned above. It would have to be an offer that was so lopsidedly in our favor to consider it... Freddy Peralta is a hard no - his floor is as a right-handed Hader. Harrison's a soft no, but the yes requires a TOR starter with at least three years of control, and a professional hitter type of prospect. For Erceg, the cost is a TOR starter with at least three years of control.

Stokes played CF in high school, but this year, he was on the same team as Harrison for the most part, and was shunted off to left. That may have also been the case in 2016. So, it may be that any problems in CF come from being rusty, not a lack of talent.

Suppose it was a Keon Broxton-Jesus Aguilar package for Odorozzi and SS Zach Rutherford?

The Cubs made good short-term decisions for three NLCS appearances in three years. But the bill for their depleted farm system is going to come due at some point. Free agency can't fill all 25 roster spots. I think Brewers fans will find that over the next four to five years, Brent Suter and Brandon Woodruff may be the two of the most consequential prospects to have been successfully developed by the farm system, even if neither become #2 starters. Why? Because they are controllable and cheap, and the Brewers don't have to go to free agency and pay $15 million a year for four years of Matt Garza production. The Suppan/Wolf contracts probably were why the Brewers couldn't match offers for Prince Fielder after 2011. Now, if the Crew has bonafide stars... Suter and Woodruff's development allow for them to be extended. Or, their presence means the Brewers are able to bid enough in the posting system for Shohei Otani.

I'd agree. Trading Odorozzi as part of the Greinke deal hurt. But honestly, right now, between Jungmann, Suter, Woodruff, Buddy Derby and Angel Ventura, the Brewers would be reasonably fine after Anderson and Davies. That doesn't include Burnes and Ortiz, who will be ready by September. This is exactly the type of deal the Brewers cannot afford to make. I'd rather roll the dice to get Shohei Otani. With a super-low payroll, the Brewers could make a competitive posting offer, and they do have the example of Brooks Kieschnick as having implemented a two-way player/"Toolshed."

Well, I'd say hit-and-miss is more accurate. Technically, I'd say the jury is still out on Coulter (not optimistic), Meideros (not optimistic), Gatewood (optimistic), Kirby (not optimistic), Trent Clark (optimistic), Corey Ray (make or break), Hiura (optimistic), and Lutz (very optimistic). Hits Jeremy Jeffress has been a valuable contributor in the bullpen and was in two consequential deals - bringing Zach Grienke in one, and Ortiz/Brinson is another - and he's back with the Crew. Taylor Jungmann pitched well one year, and struggled the next, but even if he's Matt Garza 2016, he'd still have value insofar as he saves the Brewers at least $10 million/year Dealt for Parts/Indirect hits Odorozzi was also part of the Greinke trade, and LaPorta brought Sabathia to the Crew. Both helped the Brewers reach the playoffs. Lawrie brought Bush to the Crew for 2011. Ditto above. Haniger was dealt for Gerardo Parra, and Parra brought Zach Davies, currently a solid part of the rotation. Busts Frederickson, Kentrail Davis, Heckathorn, Jed Bradley, and Roache all didn't make it.

I'd say that the jury is still out on Ortega (arm injury), Perrin (who still is performing well), Gideon (still had monster 2016 season), Carroll (Who looked good so far), Griep (same as Carroll), Hummell, and Ghelfi. So, let's set those aside. My ballots outlined why I liked some of those prospects, and for the most part, those comment stand. For some of the others: Ratterree, who was at #8 in my pre-season 2015 ballot, had stats that showed power and very good OBP skills in 2013-2014. Didn't work out, but hey, how many folks have had Gilbert Lara in their top tens around that time? I'd say at least I could point to numbers for Ratterree then. McCall had an OPS of .840 in 2014, and I rated him as a solid catching prospect. De La Cruz had taken a step forward from the previous two years and racked up 10.4 K/9. He got derailed by an arm injury. Technically, the jury is out, but that injury had him off my list. I've had the same policy for other injured players, including Nathan Kirby and Jorge Ortega. For Mark Williams, it was a 1.86 ERA in 2014, dramatic improvement over the previous three seasons. Kind of the same reason I've had Suter and Burnes as my top prospects. Matt Long and Colin Walsh both fell in the same category of having versatilty and OBP skills. George Iskenderian had versatility and he'd posted a .300 average in 2015. He was #15 on my 2015 post-season ballot. Cecchini's stats looked promising prior to the 2015 slump. I thought he would rebound, but that didn't happen.

First, I'll say that I have my issues with the lists that clancy submits and, frankly, I agree with what you are saying but at the end of the day he is entitled to his list. I guess you could argue that if he is entitled to his list then folks are entitled to criticize his list. I guess I just don't see the point and would rather folks just let him be like the crazy uncle at thanksgiving who spouts off about conspiracy theories. We all know the uncle is nuts, just carry on like nothing happened. I don't get to see the prospects, so I just look at numbers. Sometimes, it doesn't go well, but then again... look at Brent Suter, who was a solid part of the rotation for the Crew this year - and I seemed to be the lone voice saying he'd be good. Yeah, Ronnie Gideon fell off from 2016. I have Stokes higher than most on my list. But I'll lay it out: This guy broke out as a power hitter while he still maintained his OBP skills and speed. He did so while a year and a half younger than the average Carolina League player, and THREE YEARS YOUNGER than the average Southern League player. I think he's for real. Dallas Carroll's higher, too, but I see a "Jeff Cirillo" profile that looks to fill a need. Gabriel Garcia's higher than most ballots, too. But he's posted good numbers two years in a row, and I like the versatility. A valuable bench asset. Yeah, I've got some odd names there, some of whom on the offensive side have drawn walks at an insane rate. Or pitchers who did very well in some places, like Bubba Derby at Colorado Springs. I have Woodruff high, and honestly, he'll be a success, even if he's a #5 starter, because the Crew won't be signing a Jeff Suppan or Matt Garza at $15 million per year to do that. So, I'll just crunch numbers and make my best guess with what they tell me.

Is this guy just snaking my theme? I posted the other two. Not trying to "snake" the theme, but felt that a player who broke out deserved more attention.

In the vein of the Corey Ray and Trent Clark threads, let's take a look at another Brewers OF prospect. Let's get some honest opinions about Troy Stokes at this point.

I'm thinking that he could be much like another Clark... Brady Clark, only faster. He'll get a .350-.360 OBP, play all three OF positions decently, hit 30-35 doubles, 10-15 homers, and add 30 steals. You can do far worse for a 4th/5th OF. The OBP skills and the increasing power are good signs. Can he learn to hit and get he average to .260-.270? That will determine if he exceeds a 5th OF status.

I see the Cubs in decent shape, but they are vulnerable, and as soon as 2019, the Brewers, not the Cubs, will have the edge. I look at the 2017 team, and I see the Brewers have controllable starters in Anderson, Davies, Suter, and Woodruff. More starting rotation prospects are on the way in Derby, Angel Ventura (who should be signed), Ortiz, Burnes, Perrin, and Yamamoto. If this farm system can be kept in the top ten, the Brewers will be fine. If they go short-sighted... problems will happen.

Fixed the list to reflect that. Shame, he had good numbers.

1. RHP Corbin Burnes - Sheer domination leaves no doubt. 2. OF Troy Stokes - Probably the most complete offensive threat in high minors (AA/AAA), likely to start in AAA 3. RHP Brandon Woodruff - His floor is Matt Garza 2016, which has about $12 million/year in value. 4. 3B Dallas Carroll - Looks like a Jeff Cirillo clone 5. OF Brett Phillips - .799 OPS in limited action in Milwaukee - Keon Broxton's ticket out of town 6. OF Trent Clark - Had the most walks in the entire Brewers organization 7. 2B/SS Isan Diaz - 62 BB in 383 ABs. 8. C/IF Gabriel Garcia - Bat is not a fluke, and versatile. 9. RHP Jordan Yamamoto - While everyone was excited about Corbin Burnes, he emerged as a solid rotation candidate 10. RHP Jon Perrin - Rebounded near the end of the season to post solid numbers 11. OF Lewis Brinson - Looks like he and Phillips will platoon in CF 12. RHP Bubba Derby - 3.55 ERA at Colorado Springs in 12 starts is Suter-esque sign of potential 13. OF Monte Harrison - Superb season and put it all together... but stuck behind Stokes, Phillips, Brinson, and Santana 14. IF Keston Hiura - High-average bat, but what is the position? 15. SS/3B/1B Jake Gatewood - Put it together, but where does he play? 16. 3B Lucas Erceg - The power is there, but what else? 17. 1B Ernesto Wilson Martinez - 14 of 36 hits went for extra bases, but posted 36 BB in 155 ABs 18. OF Jay Feliciano - Looks like a raw power bat 19. C KJ Harrison - Could be the best Brewers C since Lucroy 20. RHP Cody Ponce - Solid season, but others have more results or are closer. 21. OF Tristen Lutz - Showed some big numbers at Arizona, but I've been burned before by Rookie League success 22. C Cooper Hummel - Switch-hitter with pop and good OBP skills. 23. RHP Freddy Peralta - Not bad, but is he a starter or reliever? 24. RHP Luis Ortiz - Looks like a solid inning-eater 25. LHP Nick Ramirez - A left-handed pitching version of "Toolshed" Kieschnick. 26. LHP Wei-Chung Wang - Dominated at AAA bullpen. 27. UT Weston Wilson - Showed versatility and kept his bat decent despite shuffling between Appleton and Carolina 28. 1B Ronnie Gideon - 2017 was first full season of pro ball, and he was part-time in college. 2018 could tell the tale 29. OF Corey Ray - 2018 is make or break 30. RHP Nate Griep - Could make it easy to trade Corey Knebel in two years 31. C Payton Henry - Looks like a 3TO bat 32. C Josh Nottingham - I don't dislike some of his numbers, but Garcia, KJ Harrison, Henry and Hummel look to be better 33. LHP Drake Owenby - 1.062 WHIP, 11.63 K/9, and 3.32 ERA. 34. LHP Cody Beckman - 11.39 K per 9IP, 3.38 ERA 35. OF Demi Orimoloye - Like Raym faces make-or-break in 2018

I had him pegged as a left-handed Jeff Cirillo. Would have been nice to have had him at the hot corner.

Right now, if he makes the majors, he's a 5th OF with some speed and defense. Do I think he can put it together? Possible. While he didn't draw as many walks as Trent Clark, he did have 48 BB to 449 ABs. Probably should have started in Wisconsin in 2016, and then gone to A+ in 2017. As it is, Brevard County may have fouled him up a little.

Here are the reasons I have positive feelings about this season: 1. The Brewers saw two pitchers from the farm system, Brandon Woodruff and Brent Suter, show clear potential to be solid contributors in the starting rotation. This is key: At worst, they mean the Brewers don't spend $10-15 million/year on a Suppan, Wolf, Lohse, or Garza. 2. Hot young prospects shooting their way up, Corbin Burnes and Troy Stokes are two I am particularly excited about. The former is dominating in the stats even more than Suter did, and the latter showed he had power in addition to OBP skills, speed, and the abiloty to hit doubles. 3. The emergence of a "bench mob" lead by Hernan Perez and Jon Villar for the 2018 season. 4. A bullpen that is much more likely than not to hold a lead after a starter gives the Crew six good innings. 5. Craig's Crushers on offense.

I'll take the two wild cards... simply because it's two chances to get hot, not just one. Then again... why not have both? :D

I'm for adding two teams, but instead doing the divisions like this: AL East: Boston, Yankees, Blue Jays, Orioles AL West: Seattle, Angels, A's, Portland AL North: Twins, Tigers, White Sox, Indians AL South: Rays, Rangers, Royals, Astros NL East: Mets, Phillies, Expos, Nationals NL West: Dodgers, Giants, Padres, Rockies NL North: Brewers, Cubs, Reds, Pirates NL South: Cardinals, Marlins, Braves, Diamondbacks Or better yet, go to two eight team divisions: AL East: Boston, Yankees, Blue Jays, Orioles, Rays, Tigers, Indians, Royals AL West: Portland, Seattle, Angels, A's, Twins, Rangers, Astros, White Sox NL East: Mets, Phillies, Montreal, Nationals, Braves, Reds, Marlins, Pirates NL West: Brewers, Cubs, Cardinals, Padres, Giants, Dodgers, Rockies, Diamondbacks

Jeff Pickler - Loved his OBP and speed, but he got taken in minor league Rule V Brian Passini - Had a sub-3.00 ERA at El Paso. Dropped off the face of the earth. Tim Dillard - Thought he'd be a mainstay in the Brewers rotation after all those CGs in Bevard County. Michael Reed - Showed a good walk rate, but dropped off the face of the earth in late 2017. He could come back.

I agree. That said, much depends on what is available. Santana is good, but to get a TOR guy with control... I'd make the move, and roll the dice with prospects. We have Phillips, Brinson, Stokes, Harrison and Michael Reed in AA/AAA in 2018. Arguably, Brinson and Phillips are MLB ready in 2018. Reed could be a huge asset in AAA, alongside Stokes. Stokes had a huge breakout year. This guy's a legit offensive threat. The OBP and doubles were always there, speed was always there... now, he's adding homers. One of these guys could stick. Maybe Broxton rebounds.

Even if they went with Aguilar full time at 1B with a Thames/Perez platoon in RF, is that a much weaker lineup than with Santana and Thames? I don't think so. Oh my...please no. Hernan Perez and Eric Thames are both terrible in the OF and not even better than Santana defensively. You are basically comparing the offense of Aguilar to Santana's. Aguilar full time would be lucky to be average. How can one even flirt with trading Santana? We literally had two true impact bats in our lineup and you want to trade one of them? We need more above average bats not less! Even if you use Santana to help get Stroman, I mean great, but good luck ever scoring runs. We struggled this year because we had no OBP type guys. Now we trade our best bat? Trading Santana is one of the worst ideas even being floated around. It doesn't even matter what the return is honestly. We cannot be getting rid of one of the only true hitters we have. Troy Stokes looks to me to be an OBP guy with power, and his defense is better. Stokes had 63 BB in 579 PAs, he posted a .477 SLG on a .251 BA, and and OBP of .341 between Carolina and Biloxi. He's mostly played left, but some experience in center, and he played CF through high school. Guess he got bumped for Harrison or others in the Brewers' system, but he could handle right. Maybe Stokes needs time in Colorado Springs, but why not give him a look in spring training? I think he not only adds a lot of what Santana does with the bat, he also provides good speed and OBP skills. EDIT: For the right deal, Santana could be moved. Stokes has produced, and the power he developed this season could make dealing Santana easier.