JimH5

Same exact post, two different threads within an hour, both relevant and accurate.... Not sure if I should feel good about the active FA market early in the off season, or start to feel the doom and gloom of being a small market team.... Your feelings are valid, even the negative ones. Mine are, too. And even the posters who remind us of the date and who want to correct us when we post disappointment/doubt/anger...their feelings are also valid.

I would have liked to see him in a Brewers uniform, but it's clear that the Phillies are in a win now mode and aren't as concerned about salary. Hope that the Brewers will find quality pitching that fits within their budget.

I would have liked to see him in a Brewers uniform, but it's clear that the Braves are in a win now mode and aren't as concerned about salary. Hope that the Brewers will find quality pitching that fits within their budget.

There was one example less than 24h ago: I mean it's not super common, but I remember seeing it in past offseasons too. Thanks for the correction. We'll see what the Brewers do with these guys.

I'm a Boomer...born in 1962. I never considered myself one, since I'm pretty much at the end of the generation and I didn't have any older siblings who were into the heart of the 60s culture. But my birth year is what it is, so I'm a boomer. I'm fine with the pejorative being directed at us, though, since the world is a different place for young people than it was for me. The economy, housing, employment, education...all of those institutions have changed radically, and I need a reminder of that every so often.

I think any non-tendered player would consider it insulting to get an offer from the team that non-tendered him. They had every opportunity to bring him back, but only want to now at a discounted price?! I wouldn't take that deal, and I'd try to land on a division rival just to be spiteful. One of my great joys in life was walking away from a job after being expected to accept a pay cut. I can't imagine a competitive athlete would be any more forgiving than I was. I'm not certain this is accurate. I'm going to make up numbers here.. but if David Stearns told Shaw and his agent that he was comfortable offering Shaw $X to compete for a job on our team and Shaw/Agent came back with "we think we are worth 2x or 3x that offer" ... if Stearns' response isn't offensive - ex. "I hope you are right and I hope you can get that much for you and your family ... I will set you free to explore the market and find the best deal for you.. if you are unhappy with what you find ... please come back and we will have that offer for you..." I don't think I would be offended if I was Shaw. We always hear the cutthroat nature of professional sports but I don't think feelings have to be smashed in all cases. If Stearns is as good with people and words as he is at accumulating talent ... a return of any of our non tenders is not out of the question in my opinion. We'll see about that. I think the Brewers (and maybe all teams) have been pretty frugal when it comes to exercising option years. Ben Gamel might be the next to find that he really just signed a 1-year deal. They moved Lucroy when he was finally about to get paid. Thames was deemed too expensive. They ask a lot for players to do promotions and appearances, etc. We'll see if there's any pushback on any of that stuff in the future. I don't recall any non-tenders returning to their old clubs.

It's not completely out of their hands. They submit a salary figure they think is fair and state their case. If the arbiter rules in favor of the player, it's because the player's side made a more compelling case. Arbitration works when two parties can't reach an agreement. As for non-tendered players returning to their old clubs, I don't recall that ever happening. Maybe Stearns will get one of these guys coming back, but I would bet against it.

I think any non-tendered player would consider it insulting to get an offer from the team that non-tendered him. They had every opportunity to bring him back, but only want to now at a discounted price?! I wouldn't take that deal, and I'd try to land on a division rival just to be spiteful. One of my great joys in life was walking away from a job after being expected to accept a pay cut. I can't imagine a competitive athlete would be any more forgiving than I was.

I'm not a fan of Arcia, but I think this is a good signing. He's still young enough to improve and they do need to fill out the roster.

Here we go... Maybe Pinot is not on the menu.

In retrospect, I should have called the duo Pinot. Budget-friendly. Not overpowering and leathery.

We believe in Pinottingham!

As for Jason Kendall, he finished with more than 20 percent fewer games caught than Ivan Rodriguez. So it's really a moot point. We could "what if..." lots of scenarios, but Vizquel actually completed the task. Also finished 1st all time in double plays turned, and 1st in lifetime fielding pct, which is a flawed stat for sure, but it shows error prevention.

Peak performance is incredibly important in HOF cases and I am not sure "most innings at "insert position" means anything to voters. His good defense definitively does...but not number of innings at SS. It has been important, for sure. But most Hall of Famers have 15-ish year careers. Vizquel played 24 seasons. He's clearly an outlier, so I think using JAWS doesn't really do justice to Vizquel's candidacy. The Hall of Fame is basically a lifetime achievement award. And over the course of Vizquel's baseball life, he did something that nobody else did. Whether that means something to voters or not will be seen.

It's still the Hall of Fame. It shouldn't be about mediocre hitters who played forever. He substantially lowers the bar if he gets in (the same way Harold Baines did), there are 20 other SS's who should get in before him. Here's where he stands in the JAWS list: https://www.baseball-reference.com/leaders/jaws_SS.shtml JAWS rewards peak excellence. And Vizquel didn't offer much peak. But he accomplished something that no other player in history did over the course of his/their careers. Nobody played more at shortstop than he did. Not Ripken or Ozzie or Aparicio or Wagner. I'm not sure that you need to dive deep into advanced stats after knowing that. He's #1 at a defensive position of importance. And he has more hits than everyone not in the Hall (with PED and Gambling exceptions). And he has more hits than lots of guys in the Hall. Because he played so long, his career looks different than a lot of players. Had he retired at 36, he wouldn't have compiled such impressive career stats, and wouldn't be a strong candidate. But because of his ability, and fitness and leadership and the character stuff that the voters use to keep some guys out, he kept getting roster spots long after age 40. I'm not sure that's a bad thing. But for some reason, we like to discredit compilers as somehow not earning their stats as much as other players. Baseball thought it was good to have him on teams in those later days, why not give him credit for it?

If Arcia amassed 2877 hits and played more games at SS than anyone in history, then he'd be a Hall of Famer. Did Vizquel have lots of "Hall of Fame" seasons? No. But the sum of his career puts him in elite company on the all time hits list, and #1 in games played at a key defensive position. There are more than 300 guys in the Hall. It can't just be about power hitters and power pitchers.

FanGraphs splits go back to 2002. During that time NL 7th hole hitters have posted league average wRC+ marks between 85 & 93. Last year it was 89. Manny's wRC+ the last three years has ranged from 86 to 95. That's good research. Thanks! And it offers some hope. I was dreading that bottom third of the lineup, but at least the Pina part is in line with others.

My argument for Vizquel is that he amassed 2877 hits and played more games at SS than anyone in history. His greatness is measured on a different scale than most other Hall of Famers.

Grandal will be 35 in the last year of his deal, and from what I read, each year is $18.25 million If B-R is correct, he was born in November, 1988 and just turned 31 this month. He's under contract through age 34.

My own hypothetical ballot would be: Jeter, Vizquel and Kent. I'm torn on Schilling, who deserves to be in on merit, but whose post-career life has been full of self-inflicted controversy. Larry Walker was tremendous, but he missed so much time to injury. Rolen is similar. I don't think I'm going to move on the PED guys. There's loads of stuff in the History of Baseball exhibit about those players and their achievements. I just don't think baseball needs to honor them with an induction ceremony.

Voting members of the BBWAA have their Hall of Fame ballots. Inductees will be announced on January 21st. Some of the ballots have already been announced publicly, with "Only Jeter" getting some online discussion. Here are the candidates: New to the ballot are: Bobby Abreu Josh Beckett Heath Bell Eric Chávez Adam Dunn Chone Figgins Rafael Furcal Jason Giambi Raúl Ibañez Derek Jeter Paul Konerko Cliff Lee Carlos Peña Brad Penny J.J. Putz Brian Roberts Alfonso Soriano José Valverde. And returning candidates are: Curt Schilling 60.9% 8th year Roger Clemens 59.5% 8th year Barry Bonds 59.1% 8th year Larry Walker 54.6% 10th year Omar Vizquel 42.8% 3rd year Manny Ramírez 22.8% 4th year Jeff Kent 18.1% 7th year Scott Rolen 17.2% 3rd year Billy Wagner 16.7% 5th year Todd Helton 16.5% 2nd year Gary Sheffield 13.6% 6th year Andy Pettitte 9.9% 2nd year Sammy Sosa 8.5% 8th year Andruw Jones 7.5% 3rd year Discuss..

I'm not equating it with income. And none of us know what their income truly is anyway. There's no guarantee that other businesses operate at a profit every year, why should our favorite baseball team be any different? So why the heck are you assuming they are wiping their behinds with $100 dollar bills from insane profits instead of paying catchers on the wrong side of 30 for FOUR more seasons if nobody actually knows what their income is? I for one hope the Brewers are at least marginally profitable every year - a sustained string of financial operating losses for them probably sends the team elsewhere. I'm not assuming anything about profits. They don't share that info, and whatever they're doing financially is their business, not mine. And I think they were ready to go with 4 years for Grandal, they were just turned off by the $73 million price. That's the part that bugs me. That and the group of fans just willing to accept the company line. I'm getting repetitive, so I'll stop now. It is just November 21st, so there is plenty of time left.

You don't have to accept it, but that doesn't mean it isn't actually true. It's a subjective opinion of yours (and shared by lots of others). The White Sox were pretty happy with the deal.

I'm not equating it with income. And none of us know what their income truly is anyway. There's no guarantee that other businesses operate at a profit every year, why should our favorite baseball team be any different? You don’t know that it is any different. Honestly Jim, beyond a repeated argument that you don’t think the Brewers have spent enough money this offseason despite the fact that it’s November 21st, I’m not sure what point you’re hoping to make here. There just seems to be a disconnect in the concept that making a sound baseball decision doesn’t mean they’re just being cheap. I just wanted Grandal back and I'm not willing to accept your declaration that it was a sound baseball decision to let him go. Again, if they upgrade, I'll be happy, though they'll need to at Catcher now, too, because Pina isn't the answer if Arcia plays at SS every day. Mostly what I don't like about being a Brewers fan is the constant need to "get a good deal" on players. And what I think is the artificial constraint on fans to not get our hopes up about some players. We can only afford these others, over here, the less expensive ones. That part gets old. Attanasio knew what he was buying with this franchise, small market included. He's been a fine owner. But if they're going to win a championship, maybe it means spending outside of his comfort zone.

Grandal wasn’t unaffordable. It’s not wise to give long term, high value contracts to a catcher that is already 31 years old. Most catchers significantly decline in production shortly after 31. Brewers could bring back Moose and sign someone like Iglesias for the same amount of money, filling two big holes we currently have. Pina is a solid hitting catcher with great defense and is owed under $2 million. Get good value there and improve other areas of the roster with big acquisitions. I’m not sad to see Grandal leave as long as other areas are improved like the rotation or shortstop. Plenty of offseason to go. I'm looking forward to those big acquisitions you're forecasting. They'll be needed to fill the sizable gap in production between Grandal's 120 OPS+ and the older Manny Pina's 85 OPS+.