JimH5

Didn't Seattle get a team because the other owners didn't want Bill Veeck to get another team? Or am I confusing that with the Braves leaving Milwaukee? A quick Google search of Veeck and Seattle took me to a newspaper article from December, 1975 when John Allyn was surely selling the White Sox. Allyn was contemplating selling to Seattle interests who would move the team while Veeck was assembling his ownership group. Obviously, the Veeck group came through. The Mariners were born in 1976 when Seattle dropped a Pilots-related lawsuit against baseball. They were awarded an expansion club, and had their stadium in place. So I think the Veeck connection may have been related to the Mariners birth and not the Pilots.

Back then, the NL and AL were really two separate leagues, each trying to get into markets ahead of the other. Seattle represented a huge geographical region, which made it atractive to the two baseball leagues. Expansion was good for existing owners, so they wanted to expand. Seattle had successfully hosted the Worlds Fair in 1962, the Seattle Rainiers had a long track record in the PCL, and so existing AL owners had reason to think it would work. But city leaders weren't enthusiastic about pro sports, so local ownership had a tough sell. Seattle couldn't decide where to put a new multisport facility (eventually the Kingdome), so they had to play at an expanded Sicks.

I honestly don't know about a Veeck connection. There might be one. It's been a couple of years since I read the book. The Pilots ownership group probably wasn't ready to own a major league club. But they REALLY weren't ready in 1969. When the KC Athletics moved to Oakland after the 1967 season, there were some angry people, so the AL owners quickly approved the 1969 expansion Royals. The league needed an even number of teams, so they also approved Seattle. The Soriano group wasn't influential enough in Seattle to fast track stadium improvements, parking, etc. Then, when the franchise was failing, there was speculation that they could be moved to Dallas/Ft. Worth. The Senators made that move after the 1971 season.

Bill Mullin wrote a book a couple of years ago called Becoming Big League, and it's the story of Seattle stadiums and pro sports teams, and he described Boeing as not being outwardly civic minded as it related to sports franchises and other groups of public interest--and that was before they laid people off. He says that prior to the Pilots, the local sports scene seemed to be quite satisfied by the U of Washington. The book is a good read, though I didn't really go much past the Pilots departure. Max and Dewey Soriano were the Pilots owners, but they were bankrolled by William Daley, who owned the Indians. The team was underfunded to begin with, they played in a bad stadium with a bad concessions deal, no local radio deal, and a public that quickly lost interest. I'm interested in the transition winter of 69-70. The whole Selig acquisition story is pretty interesting. Bud really really wanted baseball back in Milwaukee.

I got the HOF brick from the original HOF building, presented to Yount, with an engraved label, in a Home Plate shaped locking case. Lot 911. I was in on the Walter Alston stuff from the 1975 ASG, but it got too pricey for me.

Agreed. Even his HR the other day was so unbalanced. We'll see how he does the rest of the year. Posters here have told us expect limited offense, so I'll temper my wishes. I'm also a little underwhelmed with his defense. My eye test hasn't yet declared him to have elite skills. His range is good, his hands seem good, his arm seems rather average. He seems to be a very adequate defender..though maybe I thought he'd show better range. Or a better arm. Or, maybe I just haven't watched enough of his play to really reach a fair conclusion.

Bratchos Yuck.

I do remember Clutterbuck, though I mistakenly thought his career came later. Sad to hear of these young deaths, and his came so sudden after his diagnosis. RIP, Bryan

Bell died today at age 48 in his home country of the Dominican Republic. He was the younger brother of Blue Jays OF George Bell, and I think he was a fairly well regarded prospect. By the time the Brewers got him, his star had faded. He was picked up after the Phillies had waived him and he played out the 1993 season. He was cut the following spring. RIP, Juan.

He's the most celebrated Brewer in club history, and this is a message board for Brewers fans. The 3000 hit ball and bat are two important artifacts in team history. Obviously, he can do whatever he wants with his stuff. I hope the important pieces were bought by local collectors--or by the team itself.

Okay, but it's all speculation on our part over his own finances. We can guess all we want about his situation, but in the end, he sold off his stuff for reasons only known to him.

Does Yount have a financial interest in the lemonade company? Or is it just an endorsement deal?

I was up very late that night, wrestling with my budget on the lot from Walter Alston's estate that contained a 1975 NL ASG signed ball, a team photo, and a commemorative bat presented to Alston with engraved signatures of the 75 NL ASG team. I thought I won at 11:00, and then woke up at 2:30 to see an "outbid" email. I kept in the bidding longer than I would have had I been fully awake, but then passed on the last bid when the price got too high. I mostly wanted the bat, and hope the buyer mostly wanted the ball and breaks up the lot to resell the bat...wishful thinking.

I didn't bid on any of his big ticket items, but I was the winning bidder on Lot #911, a display case presented to Yount from the Hall of Fame containing a brick from the original HOF building.

That's the kind of success that a team can celebrate if they land a Rule 5 guy and he lasts the season. That's not the kind of success that a team can celebrate if he is being presented to their fans as the top and current representative of a quality minor league system. Fans don't care that he was $95,000 because he's being promoted as the face of the future. And the Brewers are the ones doing that promoting. My expectations are different from Arcia as they are of Andy Wilkins.

Escobar had 1.9 WAR in 2011, good for 222nd place in MLB, 15th among SS. In 2012, his 2.1 WAR put him in 207th place, 14th among SS. His career year was 2014, with 3.3 WAR, good for 61st best, 8th among SS. That's not a star in my eyes.

omg, I completely thought these were jokes, or some nickname I didn't quite get. then I looked them up. lol. and Lafayette was actually his middle name, his first name was Delancey. wow. I remember watching Lafayette Currence pitch relief in a game I attended back in '75, so I was curious and looked him up. I see he played AA ball at Thetford Mines. I already know Jim Gantner played there because I've always been curious where this town was and all that. So I look at the roster and I see eleven guys from that team played in the majors, including Larry Yount. Yes, the Thetford Mines team. Hard to believe they played AA ball in a town like that. And, according to Wikipedia, they only drew 16,000 fans for the whole SEASON!

Lafayette Currence Rich Folkers

But either way, why the angst? They are prospects. The future is open. Some will succeed that we didn't think had a chance. Others will fall flat. As TT does for the Packers, get as much young talent in all areas as possible and those unexpected failures tend to cover themselves. For example, if Arcia should happen to fall on his face at the MLB level, we have Villar as someone that has played a very competent SS for us already. That is the wheat farmer's approach. To grow as much of something as possible, in hopes of enriching himself through volume. It's not a bad approach, as producing something in quantity is good. Unfortunately, the Brewers need saffron, too. High quality superstars. Since they can't shop for them in free agency, they need to produce their own. And when a prospect is this highly rated, he should be better than the players rated below him. I know that it doesn't always end up that way, but it's still the expectation. Here's the article I have been referencing: http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/instagraphs/projecting-orlando-arcia/ The words that he uses in the article are all complimentary, but the player comps who he names are all very pedestrian players. Alcides, D'Angelo Jimenez, Omar Infante. . .Dustin Pedroia is on the list too, but so is Neifi Perez, so they kind of negate each other. To me it's just a disconnect between a guy being considered the best prospect in the #1 farm system in baseball and then having this article, projecting him to be just an average major leaguer. If they're going to build through prospects, someone is going to have to be great, not just average.

If Alcides has outperformed his prospect status, then it must have been low. It has taken him 1085 career games to amass a total of 10.1 WAR (Fangraphs). By comparison in the division: Zack Cozart has produced 10.2 WAR in 600 games Addison Russell has produced 5.4 WAR in 247 games Aledmys Diaz has produced 2.5 WAR in 96 games Jordy Mercer has produced 5.1 WAR in 516 games If Alcides were in the NL Central, he would be the least productive (per game) shortstop. Hence my worries about the value of Arcia relative to the excitement we're supposed to feel about the best guy in the system. I've gone on and on about it, so I'll set my angst aside for now. His performance will be what it is, and we'll all get to see it.

True, but a team can't win if they have below-competition players everywhere. We all want to celebrate the farm system and prospects who we've been following through the minors. And the Brewers organization has insisted (and I agree) that they have to have good, young, affordable, home-grown players in order to compete. But don't they have to produce players who are better than the players being produced by other teams, if they want to win? I don't know enough about Arcia to know if he's being rated too high or not. He's probably going to be fine, and it will be fun to see what the pitching staff can do with an elite defender behind them. But when I read the fangraphs post and Alcides Escobar is the comp, I am reminded about how every year there is a prospect who gets hyped, and sometimes they don't live up to expectations.

I'm not denouncing him, I'm just trying to learn more about him and to put him into the context of his peers. If he produces like Reyes, that would be great-- but it would be much better than 270/320/380. And it would be better than the projection that Chris Mitchell posted on Fangraphs. I want to filter out the fan in me when looking forward at Arcia.

I don't like limiting things to the first 25,000 fans--especially since they have established that everybody gets something now. Fan # 25,001 is going to be upset, and if he is a kid, even moreso. If they want to reduce bobbles, that's fine. I'm not a big fan of the t-shirts, as they are of lesser quality and are prone to shrinking.

I worry that once the shine is off, we'll see a guy destined to be a #7 or #8 hitter who ranks 18th-25th among shortstops, capable of a highlight play on defense, but no more valuable than Villar. The Brewers have to produce players better than the Cardinals, Cubs, Pirates & Reds. And there is reason to question if this shortstop is as good as the shortstops on competing teams. I get it that a lot of his greatness comes from his defense, but that's still hard to measure. Andrelton Simmons is the most skilled defensive SS in recent memory, but he doesn't hit enough to be elite. There's only so much value that can be produced in the field. Arcia is supposedly their top guy. But he could turn out to be just another guy.

270/320/380 with speed and premium defense sounds like Jean Segura with a better glove. You're right, there is value there. But from a #1 prospect, I would expect more.