JimH5

The money should be inconsequential. They have cut bait on players making much more. I'm glad that the front office is being proactive in recognizing mistakes and moving on. For a team trying to win this year or next year, there was no justifiable reason to give Josh Lindblom another appearance.

There is a supply chain issue with semiconductors that started around the beginning of the pandemic. The automakers during the beginning of the pandemic reduced their orders of semiconductors while the consumer electronics industry increased. What happened after the first few months the auto industry had to pivot and reorder and order more semiconductors causing an increase in demand. Intel seems to be the only company not hit by the supply chain shortage as they manufacture all of their chips unlike other companies in the semiconductor industry. It was kind of a perfect storm that hit for electronic devices between the trade war and the pandemic. Normal supply probably would have been disrupted anyways with or without the pandemic. Probably wouldn't have been as bad as it is now which doesn't look like the shortage is going to go away until at least 2022 or later. Supply should be back to normal around mid 2023 is the current guess. That's remarkable. It's wild that the shortage is going to be so long lasting.

The world has drastically cut travel and public forms of entertainment from its spending. Months after their release, people still can't get the new XBox or Playstation. We've largely not been able to go to gyms. If people are able to find some fun collecting and trading sports cards, that's ok.

Not mentioned in your post is the minor league development and coaching staff and major league coaching staff. The buck stops with Stearns, but it's possible that the draft picks were fine at the time, but were derailed in a substandard development system. I don't know this to be true, but it's often neglected when discussing front office performance.

The last living player to have been with the Boston Braves. Long time All Star Catcher with the Milwaukee Braves, and later the Manager of the Brewers, Del Crandall died yesterday at age 91. Rest in Peace.

As I mentioned earlier, unlike most player-team disagreements this is not "millionaires versus billionaires" - the Packers are community-owned, not billionaire-owned, and as such Rodgers is by far the wealthiest person involved in the disagreement. He makes at least 10x what Gutekunst makes. Hell, based on what I can find online, Gutekunst's estimated net worth is not that different from mine (and that's good, considering he is exactly one month older than me). This is spot on. Thanks, Louis. There is no Arthur Blank/Jerry Jones/Woody Johnson at the head of the Packers organization to play the foil against Rodgers. You're right. That's what makes this unique. You've made it abundantly clear elsewhere that you root for players first where the Brewers are concerned, so I'm not surprised that this is a bit perplexing when viewed in that light. Indeed, Peavy. The players are the product, with LOTS of people creating wealth on their backs. Careers are short, so the opportunity to cash in is short. That's especially true in football--and especially critical--as midlife and late-in-life medical expenses for players are their own to bear. But, I'm concerned with stuff like 'I'm here for the angst and chaos' coupled with calling Packer fans 'jilted lovers'. Some places call that trolling, and last time I checked we didn't allow that here. Fair point. I didn't poke at any individual, but I've been pretty dismissive to the collective Packers community, and I should not have been. I will save my outward glee for despondent Cubs and Cardinals fans. Lots of good posts in this thread...I'll follow along as this story plays out.

I just see Rodgers not wanting to be pushed out the door as part of Gutekunst's succession plan. He's more than 6 years younger than Tom Brady and nearly 5 years younger than Drew Brees. And given a chance to add another player to support him and the team, the Packers drafted his replacement. Whom among us wants to be pushed out the door on someone else's terms? I thought reillymcshane's post was great. I recognize that Rodgers is being petty and subversive--and I'm all for it. I said at the start that I was here for the angst and the chaos, and this story continues to deliver in abundance. The collective Packers fandom is behaving like a jilted lover. All of those 12 jerseys hanging in closets around the state, with tormented owners, vying to never wear them again. It's all amusing to me. A Hall of Fame player, the most important sports figure in the state for the last 13 years suddenly steps out of line, and he's immediately disowned and cast aside. Football is full of stories of guys behaving so much worse than Rodgers is here. Crimes, drug abuse, abuse of wives and girlfriends, fights with cops, etc. Rodgers hasn't done anything like that. All he did was express (in a childish way) dissatisfaction with how the team is treating his employment. And for that, he's out. It's really something.

I'm not trying to prove anything. I'm trying to engage in conversation. And I think my not being a fan is a unique perspective. What I'm most surprised by is the nearly full chorus of fans who are siding with management over the player--especially a superstar player who is at the top of his game and who (I think) has been without scandal. It seems as though he liked a "last guy on the roster" teammate (Krumerow) who was cut by Gute. And it seems as though he's unhappy that the team spent a high draft pick on someone who they want him to groom to be his replacement. And for reasons unknown to all of us (besides the ones I mentioned), he doesn't like the GM. Maybe he feels disrespected, maybe he wants more input on the roster, maybe Gutekunst has communication issues...whatever... But the almost universal response--from people who have been ardent fans his whole career, and for whom he has played at a historic level--he's now seen as a primadonna, selfish diva malcontent. I just think it's weird. Gutekunst vs Rodgers, and everyone is taking Gutekunst's side. Rodgers has been world class. 48 TDs and 5 INT. He holds the two highest QB rating seasons in history. And because he's not a good soldier, so many people are done with him. I get it. The team will be there long after Rodgers' career is over. But why is he obligated to go along with Brian Gutekunst's plan for his career? What if Rodgers sees himself playing into his 40s? And what if he wanted to do it in Green Bay with teammates with whom he felt most comfortable? It doesn't seem to me that Brian Gutekunst is interested in accommodating such a request. From a guy who is the reigning MVP, and the face of the franchise. And people are siding with management over the guy who has delivered so much glory. To me, that's remarkable.

So what you're saying is that 13 years ago, you would have done everything possible to placate 3-time MVP Favre, thus never giving Rodgers the opportunity to achieve those accomplishments, right? You know better than I do about Favre's play. But the differences as I see them are that it had been years since Favre was an MVP. He had been playing at a reduced level for a few years before his last year in GB. Rodgers is coming off an MVP this past season. Favre was a year older (and significantly more banged up) than Rodgers is now. So I don't think Favre had earned the deference that I'm giving to Rodgers now. 38-yo Favre seemed like the end was near. 37-yo Rodgers has never been better.

Far be it from me to tell anyone else how to be a fan. And who knows what is true and what isn’t, as there are so many details and so much intrigue circulating, it’s hardly possible for all of it to be true, and equally unlikely that it is all a pack of lies. What I do know is that, as far as my fandom goes, GB winning rings is 1A and being consistently good is 1B. To the extent that Rodgers is now a cancer (which he may very well be at this point), then he is harmful to those objectives, so if sides must be drawn, I’m on the organization’s side (since they are still trying to, you know, win games in Green Bay). I want nothing but good for Rodgers personally, and seeing as he’s been compensated beyond the wildest dreams of 99.99% of humans who have ever lived, my primary concern is for his mental and spiritual health, which have seemed a bit tenuous at times over the last decade. Nevertheless, I was a packer fan before Rodgers, and one I will remain long after he’s gone. Now, this does not preclude a reckoning with the org’s responsibility for how we got here. However, that all seems pretty impossible right now given the present smokescreens, gaslighting, and emotional confusion of the moment. It seems likely that at minimum, Packers brass is guilty of poor communication at a few critical moments. It may also come to light (though I have seen zero solid evidence of this as of yet) that they were belligerent with Rodgers and bear the brunt of the responsibility for the broken relationship. This would make Gute or whoever guilty of harming the franchise, and if so, my estimation of all this would change a bit. But if we’re talking about Rodgers pouting for not getting to keep a diminished Jordy Nelson for his last season, have to watch the team draft defensive players in the first round (addressing the part of the team that is unarguably the biggest need), and (ministers of grace defend us!) see Kumerow let go from what ultimately still proved to be the most efficiently lethal offense in all of football, then that’s some pretty thin gruel. I’m sorry, but spare me the Jordan comparisons. Jordan couldn’t have GM’d the Bulls to six rings, and if Rodgers is wanting to make personnel decisions like those above (and don’t forget, he lobbied for Jimmy Graham—how’d that work out?), I don’t think he’d have constructed a roster half as good as Gute’s. If it can all be reconciled, of course, I’ll welcome him back. He’s still the best chance to bring another Super Bowl to Green Bay, no doubt about it. But if not, thanks for the memories. The franchise must carry on. And 12, for all he has done, cares little for that future to the extent it does not involve him. Understandable for him, perhaps, but this fan does not feel the same. I just think Rodgers doesn't want to be considered a laborer. Look on pro-football-reference.com and see who are the franchise leaders in approximate value. He's #2 all time, behind only Favre. And he has enough left to surpass Favre, as the most valuable player in the most storied franchise in the sport. He's #1 in completion pct, yards per game, interception percentage, QB rating. He's the best player the team will see in a very long time. You go out of your way to placate him. And he doesn't think Gutekunst has done that. Don't you think the Brewers have placated Bob Uecker over the years? Look at the way LeBron James has been treated. Teams work around the superstar talent, and accommodate him. None of us knows what has gone on behind the scenes between Rodgers and Gute. But one guy is the reigning MVP, face of the franchise. I think you find a way to keep him happy.

Rodgers has been bad mouthing Gutekunst in team chats, calling him "Jerry Krause", who famously had poor interpersonal skills. He's like everyone whose ever had a crappy boss, but Rodgers is powerful enough to do something about it. I'm on Rodgers' side in this spat. He's a 3-time MVP. He has earned whatever special handling he wants.

I actually think this HELPS the Packers immensely in the long-term. They were going to trade him next offseason anyway in all likelihood, and this basically gave them 'due cause' with some percentage of the fanbase, and buried some of the PR hit amid a really solid draft weekend with the other. It think it'll soften the blowback significantly when it happens next February. I think your scenario comes down to Love's performance. I don't think any of their next 10 QBs will match Rodgers' career, but if Love shows promise in his first year and grows into a top tier QB for several years, then the fans will be happy. But a couple of 4-12 years while Rodgers plays at a high level, and fans will call for heads.

Thanks.. I hadn't heard that explanation of the reason behind the VH contract terms.

The Packers were actually expressing those comments at press events that were already scheduled due to the NFL Draft, the real focus of the Packers this weekend. If anyone had to answer questions about the situation, it was Rodgers in his press interviews at the Derby, where he was hounded about it. Both sides had to dance with the media yesterday, not one. Sorry Jim, I'll end where I began today- I think you're going to be disappointed when you discover that this wasn't actually the case. I think it's already a bit of a victory for the Rodgers side. Even if this is just trolling (which is what I'm doing, too) he created chaos for Gutekunst. It's been reported that he doesn't like Gute. So by pitching a fit, or holding out, or demanding a trade, Rodgers has already made Gutekunst's life harder. Maybe that's enough for him. I guess we'll find out in the months to come.

This is only true if you actually believe that Rodgers isn’t hyper competitive and doesn’t want to win a second championship, which simply isn’t true. Add in the fact that he won’t swallow his pride enough to write the Packers a $30 million check, which he absolutely will not do. It also requires you to believe that the Packers wouldn’t be willing to ride it out with Love, much like they were with Rodgers back in 2008. I guess we won’t know for sure unless they actually do, but my gut is that they don’t blink like other organizations do in situations like with the Raiders and Mack. I don't think Barry Sanders or Calvin Johnson were any less competitive than Rodgers. But they found their situations untenable and they retired. Rodgers is trying a different route. I don't know if the money is really a factor. Tony Romo is making $18 million as an analyst. Alex Trebek was making $10 million as a game show host. Rodgers is going to get paid by somebody to do something, which makes any financial penalties by the Packers seem less significant. He's already made $200 million+, and add endorsements and other income, and he can afford to demand the brown M&Ms be removed from the bowl. Honestly, it's refreshing to see the power in the hands of a player and not the team. He was living it up at the Derby and the front office was issuing explanatory press statements about how committed they are to him. That contrast is nice to see.

I think the leverage is that the Packers need him more than he needs the Packers and football. He's earned his money, he's at the top of his game, his legacy as a player is cemented. If he hates Gute, it's no big deal. He could retire or hold out and he'd still have 20 teams eager to acquire him. Favre was the blueprint for this. It's a refreshing alternative to the hundreds of college guys who are all too willing to bow at the altar of the NFL. Rodgers seems to have broken that power dynamic.

I'm just here for the chaos and angst. Whenever bad stuff happens around football, I'm delighted. Players almost never have leverage like this, and it's fun to see them exercise it.

How did it go? I’m a little nervous about Round 2 next week. I was fatigued after the first poke, so I’ve preemptively blocked off a sick day following my next one. It's been 4 hours and so far, I don't really feel anything. Just a little tired, but I think that's more a reflection of being 58 and 20 lb overweight. My left shoulder injection site hurt more after the first one. It only hurts if I press directly on it. But none of the fever symptoms, chills, body aches that people described. Good luck with yours! Now coming up on 10 hours after my 2nd Pfizer vaccine. Arm is a little sore, but maybe I've avoided the symptoms that are a concern to some others.

I'm scheduled for Pfizer #2 in the morning. I'm excited, though a little hesitant because of some of the reactions. But it's important to me to do it, so do it I shall.

I think your heart is in the right place and it's a good idea. Just don't be surprised or upset if he doesn't care even a little bit about tennis. Kids like to discover their own interests. And it's a long time between age 5 and high school. Too much of anything will lead to burnout.

There are lots of pitfalls in the organized youth sports business. I would be wary of club sports that require a lot of travel or special tournament fees or clinics that are mostly about exploiting parents who are worried that their kids are falling behind. At age 8, no kid is falling behind. So many kids burn out when sports are competitive and focused on improvement. They are supposed to be fun games with friends, but way too many leagues focus on wins and losses. Find out what's important to the coach. I would also make sure that your kid (and you) aren't required to do more fundraising that you're comfortable with. Sometimes young ones are there mostly to raise money for the club, without much playing time. That's not just a sports thing. I've seen it happen in ballet and a robotics team, too. Youth sports also have more than their share of cases where a league or club treasurer is found to have been embezzling money for their own use. Make sure the treasurer has others auditing their work. I'm against any sports that regularly expose kids to brain trauma. Tackle football, checking hockey, combat sports, boxing, rodeo...there is enough evidence for me to say they're too dangerous for kids. I guess the biggest question is...what do you hope they get out of it? playing on a high school team? learning about teamwork? having fun and making friends? becoming a sports fan?

CTE has been diagnosed in a few guys who only played through high school, so it's not out of the question. Though currently, CTE can only be diagnosed after death, so I doubt the courts would accept any claim that he has it. And being part of the football brotherhood, he might be reluctant to go against the family business (figuratively AND literally). Football insiders almost never blame football for anything bad. They're very loyal to the game. I have a pretty exhaustive (some say exhausting) years long screed on the BF political message board about football, so I don't want to hijack this thread with the same stuff that can be found there. I'll be happy to engage over there and will leave this one to typical NFL stuff--with the understanding that I'll pop back over and stir up trouble every once in awhile.

I'm suggesting that having a damaged or diseased brain might impact the freedom and ability one has to exercise what I believe to be is their will. For example, Muhammad Ali couldn't will himself to control his motor functions and speech because of the Parkinson's disease within his brain. Since the brain houses our decision making, mood, impulse control etc., it seems understandable that people with damage to that part of their brains will sometimes fail to make good decisions, control their impulses, etc. And sometimes those bad decisions result in crimes that are tried in courts. Very late in life, AWA legend Verne Gagne was living in the memory care unit of a nursing home. He had Alzheimer's disease. He got into an altercation with another Alzheimer's patient that left the other man with injuries, from which he later died. Was Gagne acting on his own free will?

There's a difference between excusing someone's actions and explaining how they came to producing them. Reid could be both guilty of the felony he was charged with and challenged with living with a diseased brain. The US prison population has a much higher rate of people with a history of Traumatic Brain Injury than does the general public.

Britt Reid was charged today with felony DWI in the crash that left a 5 year old with permanent brain damage. His BAC was .113 roughly two hours after he drove his SUV into the parked cars. Estimated speed was 83 mph. Left unanswered is whether anyone else employed by the Kansas City team knew he was driving while intoxicated, or if they tried to intervene. That is likely to come up at trial. He faces up to 7 years in prison, if convicted. To this point, the child's family has had to tap into the Go Fund Me money raised on their behalf. The team hasn't paid any expenses, and while they have no legal obligation (Reid would be held responsible, if convicted), there should be some public pressure for them to do so. To the lawyers in the BF.net community..wouldn't the team be subject to a civil suit if they knew Reid was drinking on their premises?