A lot of the people I argued with brought up the same points, A's better W-L record, easier competition, new "innovative" ideas, and his desciples are spreading the winning ways. But here's the rub, the better W-L is more due to the state of the franchises they took over. Sandy Alderson didn't exactly run the A's into the ground, where as Terry Ryan had Chuck Knoblauch and Marty Cordova as his stars day one. Also, if the 2001 116-win Seattle Mariners have taught me anything, it's that wins don't me squat respect wise without a championship. Ryan and Beane still have none. Having to beat the West is great if you do it, but actually half the time over the past 6 years the A's have been competing for the Wildcard, not the AL West alone. Therefore the competition is all the good teams in the AL not just the Mariners and A's. Theroetically this makes the A's competition even harder, and I see that point, but I think it equalizes it. The Twins havent had a chance to win the wildcard if they havent won the central, but they still have a recognizable goal and they achieve it against the same competition. Do you really think they wouldn't have won the central if there was a balanced schedule and they lose four games with the Tigers? The new "innovative (Bill James has been around awile you know)" ideas are nice and all, but very few of the ones in the book have been implemented at the Major League Level (as far as player development goes), this team still has Grady Fuson's stamp all over it. The moral of the story is there is more than a few ways to build succesful franchises and what the Twins are doing is just as "innovative" because it's working.