bill hAll Star

I don't think you guys understand how bad Blackburn would be here. Whoever called him Manny Parra right-handed version, I'd liken him more to Doug Davis. He can't strike anyone out and relies on keeping the ball down and allowing the field to make the plays. We play in a more HR friendly park so a few more of his pitches would be hit out but most importantly, our defense would make us almost surely lose many of the games he pitched. I'm sorry but Blackburn might be the worst fit for our team. San Diego, Minnesota, Seattle = solid #4. Milwaukee = Suppan/Wolf/Davis material.

So of all you guys saying the Brewers could contend next year, do you guys think these teams are playoff/world series potential for next year? Baltimore Pittsburgh Arizona Cleveland Houston Seattle Those are the only 6 teams worse than the Brewers right now.

The best player we could get aside from Hellickson given trajectory and contract status is Wade Davis. I would imagine Shields and Garza will be getting paid soon or already are. I heard a rumor about Davis and got extremely excited. Shields are Garza are great pitchers but I would much prefer Wade Davis.

Different circumstances for some of those trades.(Durham) Some we didn't really give up anything for.(Graffanino, Linebrink, Weathers, Lopez, King) I know who we gave up for Graffanino but he didn't do anything for more than a year after that trade.If you take De La Rosa's Colorado stats (half his games in Coors field, mind you), he'd probably be our 2nd best pitcher. I realize he's been hurt this year, but I think he's been more productive than Graffy the past 3 years. Durham was fine, but again the poster joked that we always trade for utility infield and middle relief. We'd have a major league reliever in Thatcher for Linebrink (given the volatility of only a few innings of relief, 25, had we just brought up a cheap replacement I'm sure he could have essentially mirrored Linebrink's production). Also, Inman and Garrison still have a chance to be productive pitchers. Scott Linebrink pitched 25 innings for a team that I believe was 6 games out and 2-8 in their last 10 or so. I'm just tossing those numbers out there but I remember any conscious fan knowing we were out at that point. We did get comp picks here though. The Cubs were surging hard and I guess I'm wrong here, we were in first but I think the writing was on the wall that we weren't going to hold on. And Linebrink with 25 innings wasn't going to change that. For Lopez we gave up a guy that is in the majors right now. Gillispie isn't a monster by any means right now but it was value. And we didn't offer Lopez arby so we got nothing and we were massively out of it when we dealt for him. I think we basically flushed 1-2 million down the drain for Weathers. And honestly, we were a miracle run (not as massive as this one) away when we made all of these trades except Durham. We may not have given away all-star caliber prospects in these trades, but they are value that can be flipped in a trade when you actually are in contention, or can fill the back of your bullpen instead of leaving roster spots available for Doug to blow it on late-30's relief. It's trades like this that just make me scratch my head. Like the Matt Morris deadline deal for the Pirates when the Giants were going to cut him and the Pirates were 10+ games out already where they had to pick up 8 figures of salary, I believe. Or the Royals trading for Yuniesky Betancourt in 2009. The only reason the Brewers aren't AS pathetic as those 2 franchises of late is because they nailed it with Braun, Fielder, etc. and do have an owner that isn't going to purge that prematurely. I just don't get why some teams that are awful and should rebuild trade for mediocre vets at the deadline. Once in a blue moon if you are just really hurting for major league talent at a spot but it shouldn't be done more than that.

Fielder/Hart/Gamel for Cliff Lee? Is that the same Cliff Lee that would leave Milwaukee for a 100+ million dollar deal after this year's non-playoff season? Seattle gave us the Brewers 40 years ago but we might be paying back the favor now 10-fold if we make that trade. Personally, if the Brewers are "getting creative" they should get the haul the Rangers for from the Braves for Teixeira. Andrus, Saltalamacchia (but hopefully he doesn't bust from injury problems as the #1 prospect at the time), Feliz, and another guy with potential. That's the only way to rebuild this trainwreck of a team. No more Mench/Cordero/Nix packages please. I want polished prospects with some potential that are ready to help us in 2011 or 2012 and cost us minimal $$$ for 6 years.

Are you basing this on anything other than last season?Graffanino, Linebrink, Durham (somewhat of a starter), Ray King, David Weathers, Lopez. I think it was a fair comment.

The reason that Escobar and Gamel are so prized is not that they may be that good, but their minor league deal price tag. For better or worse, the reason we have Cameron, Kendall, Hoffman, and other expensive vets is because guys like Braun, Hardy, Fielder were making peanuts. Personally, even Roy Halladay in our rotation doesn't make us better than the Cubs or the Cards. So you're willing to sacrifice not 1, but probably 2 productive players for 6 years for a 2 month rental that isn't going to take us anywhere? For instance, if we deal Escobar, Hardy is probably gone after next season. Here is how we can fill the SS hole: 1. Re-sign Hardy for 6+ million per year. Even though he has struggled this year he is going to play better next year and has had some great seasons. I could see 7-8 per year. 2. Sign a similar vet. 3. Sign a cheap vet with cost-cutting for other holes in mind. 4. Use a different SS prospect who is in all likelihood, lesser of a player than Escobar Options 1 and 2 would give you similar talent, depending on who you ask, to Escobar. Maybe better, maybe worse. Options 3 and 4would probably be a downgrade. However, options 1 and 2 would plug a hole with a large sum of money, so now we're relying a Swindle in the pen instead of spending 7 million/year on Ryan Madsen (just picking a random setup man). Now think of these situations all over the field. If we want to fill RF in the future with someone Hart-esque or better that will come with a price tag, Cain is going to have to man CF. That is why these prospects are so valuable. You need to have at least 1/3, probably at least 1/2 of your roster filled out with cheapies so you can find vets or hold on to your own guys to fill out a competitive roster. In my opinion, trading any prospects of value for pitching (and the price will be steep) would decimate our chances from 2011-2015. Yeah, you can say that is way too far out, but we have Braun, Yo (for a few years), and Prince either re-signed or the haul we get in return for him in those years. We aren't sniffing a World Series this year with even Roy Halladay and while it could project nicely for next year, it really would be an "all our eggs in one basket" type of year where we might come to a rude awakening the following year if nothing gets done.

To me the issue is very clear: I am over 90% sure that we weren't going to the playoffs with Yost at the helm. Does Dale give us much better of a shot? Maybe not, but I don't see why you do not try to do it. -Yost was gone next year anyways it seems. -There is a very small chance that this move sparks us (but a chance). -There is a very small chance that Sveum is a better manager. Both of those possibilities are small, however we knew what we had in Yost and after seeing this team look like a deer in headlights during the race last year and play from behind for probably 95% of games vs. contenders (STL, CHC, NYM, LAD, PHI) and save for some late game homers we would have an absolutely atrocious record against them all in the 2nd half, I don't see how you can logically think we had much hope the rest of the way. So why not take a shot?

Well DocBucky...before my post was deleted I had agreed with you comparing it to a similar move he made against the Marlins. It was a good point even if it was mentioned at some other spot in this thread.

Thanks for making me feel welcome on this board. I apologize to BF for using a semi-bad word that represented a swear got my post deleted...won't do it again...my bad. I'm usually over on other boards but figured I'd try talking a bit on here because the fans over here seem pretty knowledgeable. However, every time I post here someone will come back with a snide comment no matter if it is positive or not. My apologies for exaggerating about my feelings on the Brewers when referring to a manager who has been here for 6 years and has seemed to regress every season. [/sarcasm]

1B - LaPorta or Gamel : Move Gamel there if you want LaPorta for OF...or something. I'd rather have one of these guys than Prince who is swinging as if he were a rookie and playing his usual terrible defense and is unable to run. Trade Prince while he still has a few years left so we aren't doing a trade deadline desperation move a few years from now. Get some high-level pitching. 2B - Rickie Weeks : He will finish the year once again in the top 10 amongst 2B and leadoff hitters when he gets it going again. SS - Alcides Escobar/Hardy : Start moving Escobar in. Hardy is good on defense but his D is overrated by many. 3B - Hall : I honestly want to see him with lasik for a while. Look what it did for Kendall. I'd prefer it to just happen right now since we are fading out of the race. If he still struggles, start the process of bringing in Gamel.

I'm assuming the people on here putting any kind of blame on Reed Johnson for sliding into first have never played a pitch of organized baseball in their lives? Seriously, sliding into first is a normal thing when you are trying to avoid a tag. He was very close to getting away from Fielder's tag. I'll still hate him for being involved in the play that ended up hurting Gallardo but to blame him is just stupid. That play happens all the time, we just had one of our stars in the wrong place at the wrong time.

Seriously...although I don't post here much I am probably one of the leaders of the Yost hate club. But... There is NOTHING to blame Ned here for. He listened to his trainer...and the trainer isn't really at fault either. Yo tore it when he jumped over Johnson. End of story. I doubt the extra 1 2/3 innings changed the outcome of his injury much.

Yeah really, aside from us getting screwed in the deal(I do love Lincecum, though), Sabian would want 35+ year old guys. Maybe if we brought back Damian Miller and tried to convince Yount into coming out of retirement we could package them in a deal for Lincecum.

I know you're kidding about this, but as the play happened, I wondered why Yo kept heading to the bag when it was clear Prince was keeping it. Keep in mind, I was at Wrigley and I was between home plate and the Cubs dugout, so I was a long way from the play. I also was jumping up and down because we got the out and didn't see the whole thing play out. I think there was a lingering chance that Fielder could have flipped it to him. Usually you just don't think that something like that will happen. I'm sure he didn't expect Johnson to slide until last minute. When it happened, he probably figured he could just jump over it all but Johnson slid way to the right to try and avoid the tag, and Yo ended up having to over-extend his leg/caught it on Johnson on his way down.

Yeah if Theriot, Cedeno, Derosa, Johnson, and even Fuku continue to hit well above .300, then sure...the Cubs will run away with the division. Their closer just blew another save last night and he isn't far behind Gagne in totals. Let's say the Cubs do continue to dominate...all we can do is keep winning our games and I think we can run away with the wild card easily, too. I'd love to hang a division banner up but I'll take the playoff appearance.

I'm still waiting for TI to drop Bill Hall's name in a song. Hall seems to like using TI when he walks up to the plate. It's great though, whenever I hear that opening melody to "What You Know" all I can think about is Hall walking up before hitting a clutch HR in 2006. I also liked that random techno song that Prince had a few years back. Art of War or something like that?

I think that had a lot to do with Fox Sports broadcasting in Stereo(I never understood why they were still doing this). I think that will be taken care of in HD broadcasts, though.

If Charter doesn't add FSNHD I will be quite angry.

Sponsored by Mcdonalds.

Thank goodness we benched Rickie after he was roping them out at clutch times in Houston and Atlanta. Gotta play the percentages.

So which RealGM member are you?http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/laugh.gif I'll give you 5 guesses. I obviously post on the Brewers realgm board so that narrows it down quite a bit.

His arm is downright bad at this point, but there really isn't much of a difference between his and Estrada's. I liked Hardy's success in the 8 hole last year but if you think about it, I'd rather have Kendall back there working the count and clearing the order. Hardy would also fare much better seeing the great pitches a hitter sees with the fear of Braun/Fielder behind them. Kendall is going to claw his way on base no matter what which would be nice to have at the 2 in front of Braun/Fielder, but also is nice to have at the 8 spot. Hopefully with Hardy at the 2 he will see good pitches and keep a higher OBP and also hit with some more unexpected power.

The silver lining to that is it will accelerate Yost's trip to the exit door, twirly :-D

I think when it comes down to it...Estrada is one of the biggest examples of a guy where the stats totally lie. The casual baseball fan usually looks at BA, HR, RBI, and maybe slugging percentage. From that perspective Estrada looks like he is in the upper tier of catchers in the league at least for the past few seasons, which he is obviously not. Estrada had nothing else going for him though. 1. Terrible arm 2. Can't run 3. Way too aggressive(crappy OBP) 4. Clubhouse cancer 5. Not very great at handling pitchers Kendall may have slightly lower basic hitting numbers at this point in his career but he is an upgrade over Estrada in all of those 5 mentioned categories except for his arm, which also sucks.