eanelson4

You saying that it's not acceptable to blow leads with a 10 million dollar contract is suggesting that it is for a guy who's making the league minimum. Why? In all reality, it shouldn't be, however we need to be honest about the Brewers. They are in the smallest market in Major League Baseball, and money will ALWAYS be an issue. If we could pay someone less, we need to do it. Look at the Twins. They are a notoriously good small-market team. The Brewers will never be a big free agent team simply because we don't and won't have the payroll to be. That being said, when we go out and sign a free agent for $10 million a season, he HAS to perform, no exceptions. A small market team like the Brewers dumping 1/8 of their payroll in a guy is huge. In any event, so what? So we have someone else who can do the exact same thing as him? We have someone else doing the same thing as him for less $$. We are only 4 or 5 years removed from a $23 million payroll, don't lose sight of that. Yes, different owners, however, times can repeat themselves. We need not lose sight of what the Brewers really are, even if the payroll has increased dramatically each year since Attanasio took over. Wouldn't the point to be to find someone better? Indeed. That is the point of this thread. I hope if Gagne continues to struggle, we can find someone better (but more than that I hope he figures it out). The only problem is that to get a proven closer, you need to sell the farm, which Melvin won't (and shouldn't) do. I was making my stipulation of someone in the minors based on the fact that nearly every year a quality closer seems to pop out of nowhere. There isn't one set mold for how a closer needs to pitch, and I would guess that most clubs have a guy somewhere that would make a good closer, they just might not realize it yet. We just need to find one of those guys (easier said than done, yes).\ Also, I brought $$ into it because if we can't find someone better, but can find someone equally as bad, why not pay them less $$?

We can use all the metrics we want, but this much is clear: If Weeks makes the throw to first on the double-play ball in the Cardinal game, and the first-base umpire correctly calls Blom out Sunday, we're not having this discussion right now. And neither of those things are Gagne's fault. You are also running under the assumption that he can actually get guys out without struggling after that. A good closer will shut the door down even after his defense falters him. Co-co loaded the bases yesterday against the Cubs yesterday yet still seemed to get Derek Lee to ground out (unlike anybody else in the league). Not saying I expect Gagne to be as good as co-co, however a $10 million closer should be able to shut the door if we only turn one out on a double play, or if he allows 1 runner on base.

Well, from what I have seen so far this year, I would have no problem if Yost stopped giving him the ball. It doesn't appear that he can throw the strikes he needs when necessary to keep guys on the edge, thinking that he might put one across the plate for once. They are just sitting back, letting his changeup ride out of the zone for ball 4, letting the guy behind them dunk a single in there to get them around to score. That being said, it will be interesting to see if he can pull it all together (which I would love) because the last thing the brewers need is a $10 million pile of junk. Remember that Joe Nathan is making just under $12 million/year. I understand that we pay a premium because we are renting him for a year, but still, on a team with an $83 million payroll, a guy that chews up 1/8 of that should be DEPENDABLE, which Gagne certainly hasn't been. Does I think Gagne flat out stinks? No, he just isn't worth the $10 million we are paying him.

I wouldn't expect anyone to come out and get a perfect save (or any save for that matter) any time out. I don't find it acceptable, however, to blow multi-run leads with a $10 million contract. I am confident that we have someone (probably even someone in the minors) that can go in there are go 9/14 on save opportunities, squandering a few multi-run leads, while paying him substantially less. On a team with a fairly tight budget, a $10 million contract is HUGE and we should expect something substantial from this guy. I was an advocate for bringing him in, provided he could get results. This, however, he hasn't done. Yes, this is speculative as well. I understand that we are only 1 month into a 6 month season, but it makes for fun conversation at least. Hopefully in the end, Gagne will end up doing great and I am sure we will get a chance to find out given Yost's track record of sticking with guys. Brewjihad - I don't at all find it simple for us to trade for a guy like Francisco Rodriguez or Joe Nathan. Their respective GM's would want us to sell the farm to get them which is ridiculous and something that Melvin would never do. We just need to find one of these closers perennially seems to pop out of nowhere!

you know - a new thought just came up! Doug Melvin - DFA Yost

This isn't so much of my thoughts as it is a reaction to yours: 1) I agree, trade LaPorta for pitching 2) I kind of like the color of MP. It goes well with the brick. It is almost the exact same color scheme as the renovated Lambeau and I find it beautiful, just my thoughts though.

The dome stinks, enough said. Been there many times and its still nothing special, but hey, baseball is still baseball. Watching a game in one of the worst venues in MLB is still better than a trip to the Mall of America with the girlfriend. A little side note for those not familiar with the area- whenever I drive to the dome I get off I-94W at the 5th street exit and park in the ramp that is about 1/2 mile in on the left. Its $10 and 1 block from the dome and it is VERY easy to get back on I-94E from that ramp. edit - forgot to mention that I am going to either the Friday night or Saturday game (can't remember which :X)

well, looking through the MLB.com gameday from yesterday (i would assume the position of the pitches to be fairly accurate)....I see he maybe got squeazed on 2 or 3 pitches: Ball 1 to Darin Erstad - Right about the knees Ball 2 to Michael Born - Around the knees Maybe Ball 1 to Michael Born - Around the knees other than that...he couldn't hit the zone. I dont, and nobody should, expect an umpire to give you a pitch 2 or 3 inches off the plate in any direction. The zone is the zone, and EXPECTING to get calls outside of it is wishful thinking, however sometimes it does happen. To me, it appears that he can't get the corner or the important strike when he needs it. Gagne needs to be able to throw that changeup with good command to get his outs. This way he can keep guys honest and make them swing that the ones out of the zone, like the good-ol'-days with the Dodgers. Maybe I'm crazy though, I just don't think we can keep throwing a guy (no matter who it is) out there who goes 9/14 on save opportunities and expect to go to the playoffs. As the old saying goes, before the season starts, there are generally about 100 games that are out of your hands. 50 you are destined to win, 50 to lose, its what you do with the other 62 in the middle that makes or breaks it. We can't afford to give them away in the 9th with walks.

As the title says, after watching last nights game, to me, it has become apparent that our glaring need is a closer (after that a starter, but thats a whole new topic). Gagne has proved that he just can't get it done. Last night : 2 Base hits, 3 walks, 2 ER - Season: ERA over 6 (not necessarily a good judge for a reliever), 4 HR already, 17K/10BB ratio, etc. Good teams (especially those expecting to go to the playoffs and get somewhere) cannot afford to blow 2 or 3 run leads consistently in the 9th inning. If this were a rare ocassion, I could write it off as good hitting, but it has become all to consistent. Gagne can't get his changeup for a strike consistently and guys just sit back and let him throw it out of the zone and take walks. SO, the question is, who do you think we move/trade for/call up to the closer role?? My thoughts - trade Gagne. I know he can't have much value right now with a whopping contract (although only 1 year) and his struggles early on this year, however he has proved that he can't get it done in as a set-up man either so I don't think we can afford to hand that over to him either. He's starting to sound like t-bow here. I think we trade him and see what we can get, move Stetter to the closer role and continue from there. Maybe Stetter can be a little B.J. Ryan-esque and get it done (minus the arm injury). Thoughts? Edit: Please be clear and specific in thread titles. - Toby

oops -- sorry. I just figured it was new news because it was on CNN today. Shows what I get for trusting the media http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/wink.gif

should work now...I put a new URL for the video

Hey all - Don't know if any of you saw this yet, but I happened across this video and found a website when I was on CNN.com earlier today. Enjoy! Video http://www.mocpages.com/moc.php/33045 Cool idea by this guy....he put a ton of time and effort into building such a neat model. Edit: put a new URL to the video...hopefully it works now