Bruce Ciskie

"...and if they score, he'll (Turnbow) pitch the eighth." Actually, Chip, I'm guessing he'll pitch the eighth no matter what. Unless the Brewers hang a ten-spot. Then Spurling will pitch the eighth. http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/happy.gif

Let's not insult those poor guys by comparing them to Orr. http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/wink.gif

Bush is easily the toughest pitcher for me to get a read on. But you have to PH here.

Was that it for Bush, or do you think Ned will leave him in if his spot comes up with two out and nobody on?

Fielder's been hanging around John Bradshaw Layfield too much.

Sounded to me like Cirillo got the Charlie Haas Pop. If you're not familiar, here: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pop...9#Haas_pop

I'm starting to think that DirecTV is worse than ESPN when it comes to this "Yankees and Red Sox are the only teams that exist" thing. I'll bet that they each get over 100 games in HD on DirecTV. Of course, their respective games are on my HD channels tonight, so I won't be getting our game in HD. By the way, for those watching the pregame show, Bill Schroeder was right. He was 0-for-12 lifetime against Bert Blyleven (2 Ks).

Yup. http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif

I'm very disappointed in Ned Yost. That was extremely unprofessional. He should have spit his gum in that idiot's face. http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/wink.gif

I don't know if there is a cut-and-dried right answer, but I'm guessing that the human reaction in that spot would be to look at the opposing player's splits, because you see your guy pitch all the time and you think you know what he's capable of without looking at stats. Just a thought.

And it's the reason I mentioned what I mentioned in the Vent thread. If Yost thinks that poor splits versus lefties is a good reason to let Brian Shouse face a right-handed hitter, then he clearly doesn't know his own bullpen well enough to manage it effectively. I don't care if Shane Victorino is hitless on the season against lefties. You're better off putting Capuano in to pitch the day after he started than you are letting Shouse pitch against a righty. Now, you're absolutely right that Shouse and Turnbow didn't get the job done. But neither did the manager. His job is put his team in the best possible position to win the game. Instead, his moves clearly hurt his team's chances at a win. I'm not one to blame EVERYTHING on Yost (as I said in the other thread, he made absolutely the right move pulling Bush when he did, no matter the reasons for him doing it), but the eighth inning falls on his shoulders.

Fair enough. I still stand by the fact that we were well on our way to another Bush meltdown, and while the knee may have tightened up, it's not exactly far-fetched to argue that it was not a factor in the impending meltdown. Maybe Ned pulled him too early, but it looked like he did the right thing, for whatever reason it was that he did it. I couldn't agree more. In the end, it comes down to the fact that it again looks like Ned doesn't know his bullpen well enough to manage them effectively. I'll go back to what I said last night. If Bill Schroeder can figure out that Turnbow doesn't have his "A" stuff, then Turnbow should come out of the game. And if Turnbow can't handle having four days off in a row, then he needs to pitch more regularly than that. But it just doesn't seem that Yost has a feel for such things. Drives me nuts.

There were two on with no one out. The meat of the order was coming up. For all his faults, Ned may have made a really good move there, because Bush's propensity for giving up the big inning was about to be put to the test. Didn't watch yesterday's game. No idea what happened except that we got our rears kicked pretty good in the eighth. As for Sheets, according to the articles about the game, you're dead wrong. Here's one: Not only did Bush finish the inning where he got whacked, but he batted and pitched another inning. Again, I don't think that the injury was the ONLY reason he came out. Look at the circumstances that Wise entered the game in. That had "Bush's big blowup" written all over it until Wise came on.

I did chuckle a bit at the thought that Yost was going out to pull Turnbow after Turnbow had finally bothered to record an out. It was even better when Spurling ended the nightmare in two pitches. Really reminds you of what could have been had Yost not fallen asleep in the dugout. That's what happened, right?

Sorry, but the two innings he pitched (looking pretty good) lead me to believe that he was okay until he started, you know, putting runners on base. I mean, he batted and continued to pitch. If you want to believe that the knee was the sole reason why he came out, that's fine. You're wrong, but that's fine. http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif

I had already declared myself pretty much done with Yost, so I guess I shouldn't be mad. But we're not good enough to be able to afford an idiot manager. Maybe in two years this team would be good enough to consistently overcome moronic decisions in the dugout. Shouse didn't need to pitch. Turnbow hadn't thrown in five days. That was easily the longest inactive stretch he'd had all season. Frankly, you could argue that it was a mistake to leave him out both Saturday and Sunday in New York, because he's a guy who seems to need to work pretty consistently. He's been that way as long as we've had him. When even BILL SCHROEDER, who typically isn't all that good at noticing little things, emphatically states that a certain pitcher just doesn't have "it", it's time to find someone else to pitch. I don't know if it was the layoff or the inherited runners or a combination of both, but it was clear Turnbow didn't have it. If you want to blame the layoff, which is certainly possible, then Yost should have recognized that Turnbow couldn't sit that long and put him in for the ninth Saturday or the eighth yesterday. Did Elmer Dessens really NEED to pitch both days? If it was the inherited runners, then Turnbow should be used exclusively to start innings unless it's a dire emergency. Some guys just don't do "inherited runners" very well, I 'spose. And, honestly, it was almost criminal to leave him in as long as he did. It was obvious after two hitters that Turnbow didn't have anything. His control was off, and he didn't have his normal velocity. Instead of leaving the guy hanging out to dry, either Spurling or CoCo needed to enter that game. Either way, tonight is another shining example of why we'll have a colossal collapse on our hands this summer unless the manager figures out how to handle the bullpen. You KNOW this is going to happen again, and probably again, and so on and so forth. Hopefully, the signs of improvement that I thought I'd seen from Ned weren't just dumb luck or some sort of aberration. Of course, all of this could have been avoided if the guy currently lined up as our fourth starter could have survived more than 5 1/3 innings without showing obvious signs of an impending implosion. Congrats, Dave Bush, on the no-decision.

The only ending that may have been more fitting on this day would have been a sprawling diving catch by Gwynn in right-center.

Good to get Spurling and hopefully Elmer some work. More rest for the top bullpen guys. If nothing funny happens the rest of the way, we'll have our bullpen at pretty much full strength behind Capuano tomorrow.

Can I swear? Just once? I promise it will be the only time. Because the only way I can say anything accurate about JJ Hardy is to swear. Otherwise, the words to describe him don't exist right now.

Insurance. Please. Get. Some.

Um...I'll step up. I was TOTALLY wrong about Tony Gwynn. I was one of those who said he shouldn't have been on the final roster. He's going to be really good.

I'm going to guess, without knowing for sure, that Gotay doesn't have the strongest arm in the world. It was pretty silly of him to make the catch with the right fielder clearly able to make it.

Pelfrey hasn't been that great today, but boy did his defense job him in that inning. Thanks, Mets defense. http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/happy.gif

They say you're more apt to believe something if you can see it in writing. The Milwaukee Brewers are 24-10. Nope. Still don't believe it. Wow! http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif

What the heck is that? Adam didn't make haiku I think he screwed up http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif Edit: Bruce Ciskie is right. Non-haiku post deleted. Sorry, Adamb. -hawing