edod

There seems to be a shared thread of reason running through each of the yea's and nah's . Most of the yea's cite he is a solid defender, provides a solid slugging percentage and is at least a fair price. The win share stat seems to reinforce this notion. The nah's point, which is also my point is that he has good over-all value, but in the context of the Brewers his value is reduced becuase his weaknesses parallel much of the rest of team. Perhaps the arguement should be expaned to the rest of the team. If Melvin can shore up the lack of obp and lefty hitters else where, does Cameron then become a no brainer? Because Camerson is basically a 1-2 year rental, I think the nah's consider CF to be a natural position to address the weeknesses, especially when you consider the financial realities of the Brewers. Just because we have a new owner and (had) a 90 million payroll doesn't suddenly change the fact that Brewers are the smallest market in baseball.

I'm not sure why this association is out there. I am familiar with it, but in my years of watching baseball, I've developed a sense that 3B is more of a defensive position. In that teams look for D first (see Braun, M. Caberra, etc). That said, I think Hardy would make a fantastic third-baseman, but I don't think the team asks him to move for reasons discussed in other threads. If only he would volunteer... Soriano was a bad infielder and was forced to the outfield by Frank Robinson. Bill Hall's offensive woes do coincide with this position changes--made to accommodate Hardy and Braun. I won't say the moves caused his woah's, but if you ask him, he might allude to them. This is not so good for the perception of the team's treatment of players especially if they start forcing players elsewhere who excel at their position. But you're right, it's not thinking of the team, it's management's treatment of the individuals who have interests outside of and beyond whichever team they happen to be on.

What makes you say this? Mark A said earlier this year, when the payroll hit 90 million that they might break even if the team won the WS. I don't think they will go into next season with the same or higher payroll, unless they pull off a deal for Sabbathia. I can't see a team run by an investment banker going into the season running at a deficit with a team will probably have less expectations (which they will be without Sheets or Sabbathia). I emphasize that this is a gamble, but not one that is going to cost the team a lot. I don't know that Gwynn will improve, but likewise I'm not as sure as you seem to be that he won't. He's young, he has a decent swing, and he can learn to take more walks. And really, I don't need Gwynn, he's just present. I'd be happier with any younger, cheaper, and preferrably left-handed contact hitter than Cameron as long as the D is better than good.

You're right, I over-looked this in my post, but I wanted to emphasize that I don't think Cameron is worth so much more money when the team has other options. If I were GM, which I think is the spirit of this thread, I would take a gamble on him for at least half of 2009. It seems most of the above posters who have put Cameron in their 2009 line-ups cite his defense, which Gwynn does provide. I should also add that I think 2009 will/should be a under-the-radar rebuild year where they may still get a shot at the wild-card. And because of this belief, I definitely don't like the idea of extending Cameron and then being left with either a hole or more expensive and risky extention of Cameron in 2010 when I expect the team to make an aggressive financial move to go for it again. But to reiterate, I prefer Gwynn's potential to the actuality of Cameron (which is more likely to decline). You can substitute any cheap young name for Gwynn, I just don't want to pay 10 mil for great D and 20+ dingers when the team badly needs .obp and contact hitting (and a lefty at that).

According to minorleague baseball's website it's .328 which is all of .03 lower than Cameron's at the MLB level and this is Sveum's leadoff hitter. That's $9.5 million more for .146 points of SLG. I think you get the same defense (minus the benefits of experience), more base-path speed, greater possibility of improvement and a whole lot more flexibility. Whereas Cameron is more likely to (continue to) regress due to age. If I'm the GM trying to improve the team for the long-run, while still staying competitive each year on a budget Cameron is not my CF in 2009. I'd move that money elsewhere. If Gwynn is a bust even platooning and the team is in it come June, go get a CF from the minors or via trade. Gwynn's potential ability fits this team's ideal needs and he's still youngish at 26. Coming off a 90 win, 1st post-seaon in an eon, 3 million attendance year, it sounds a lot worse that it really is.

This really hits the nail on the head for me. I couldn't find the words to describe it, but these moves(and maybe one or two others) seemed more about the politics between franchise and fan base than winning baseball savvy. It makes me continue to wonder if Mark A. isn't just as savvy a business man who researches his product through all avenues (cough*brewerfan*cough). I think I like that, assuming he has made provisions for the results of such moves. The Suppan signing was really the one that defeated the prevailing attitude that the Brewers were cheapskates--it seemed to work and hopefully they never have to make another splashy-for-the-sake-of-splashy signing again. And Yost was really becoming a divisive element between the franchise and fan opinion. If he got them into the playoffs they'd be forced to give him another year if not more, while the prevailing attitude seemed to be the team was winning in spite of him. If you look at these moves as politicing with the fan base, you also have to acknowledge that the ownership is conceding the importance of the customer, for better or worse. In my opinion, it's good, for now. As anyone who has ever worked retail knows, a lot customers like to leave their brain in the car.

Aren't Damon's days as a decent outfielder over? I thought he was being used as a DH as recently as June. Suppan has much, much more value to this team then Pierre. He's not a bad thing to have in the rotation for the next two years. He's just so expensive and we might have better in Villy and McClung. He's the type of pitcher who helps you get through the season. He probably has no buisness starting a post-season game this year, but with no Sheets and no confidence in Parra, they ended up leaning against the "big-game pitcher" silliness that got him the deal in the first place.

Thanks, and back at ya. I think the crowd's response to every pitch Sabathia sent at Myers has got to be one of the coolest things I've seen a crowd do. I'm not happy the Phillies beat the Brewers, but I certainly won't root against them when playing the Dodgers, or either Sox team--I might root for both if Tampa gets in. If the Brewers had a healthy Sheets and a somewhat functional offense in Sept/Oct I think this series would have been a lot closer, but the Phillies basically looked like the better team at the moment.

Curious, this is the second year I ordered the post-season package (and only the second year I had a 20-pack) and I got parking passes with my ticket sheet. I don't recall asking for them, they just came with the post-season ticket plan. I didn't order preferred parking with the 20-pack; I don't even have a car, so unless I go with someone who wants to tail gate I won't need them. I guess I'll ebay them. Maybe one year of seniority got me on the list...

But, the fundamental point is, we are BREWERS FANS. Lets get in a good argument over next year's infield! And heh, we're still suffering from Spring hope, in September, that's a good season.

I've mentioned these before, but as long as we're anthologizing. A few years back I saw bunch of big dudes in the upstairs of Hooligan's on North Ave after an afternoon game. I recognized Russel Branyan, Wes Helms and a relief pitcher who didn't last long. Last year after a miserable loss to the Cubs, I stopped at Potowatami to learn how to play black jack. When I left several hours later, I saw Cappy standing outside of an SUV, dressed up mighty snazzy and Matt Wise either passed out or with his head down in the SUV--I believe he gave up 4 runs that day or the day before. And right before this season started I was at Monica's on Astor when the bar tender asked me if I wanted to celebrate with Dan Kolb. He was buying the house a shot after getting invited to Red Sox camp. I looked around the pillar and there he was. I returned the favor before leaving, without actually talking to the guy, left a generic message of kill the yanks, er something.

I'm inclined to look at this from a financial point of view. Premise #1 The Brewers are still a small market team. Premise #2 The owner and GM have repeatedly said they have a plan and will stick to it. This plan is similar to what the A's an Twins have been doing for about the last 10 years. Premise #3 They are losing money this season. (If you believe what Mark A. has said) It's strange projecting this team because so many outcomes of this year may still affect next year; this is very unfamiliar territory. I think many of the decisions hinge on another. Will the Brewers really be in contention to resign either Sheets or Sabitha, meaning there is a legitimate chance they will have one or both next year? This question can be affected by how far the Brewers go this year. If they end up with neither they will have at least one big spot in the rotation to fill (assuming Yo fills the other) and the A's/Twins model indicates you build from within or trade from organizational strengths for youth. People have asked why they would trade JJ when he has been the best all around player this year. Financially speaking, he has the most value now. With two more years of arby left, two straight all-star quality years, and a viable replacement behind him, he is the most sensible chip to spin. Financial wisdom says you trade at the highest point of value, not the lowest. I see next year as being a rebuilding year where the team lowers payroll to save for the next push and starts rebuilding value and cutting losses. Weeks, Fielder, Hall, Gallarado, and just about everyone in the bull pen needs to reestablish their value. Weeks and Hall are at particularly lower values than they could be given time, and the team has time with both. Hence I see an Infield of Hall, Escobar, Weeks and Fielder next year. I'd give Hall three monthes to build value and either stick if Gamel doesn't improve in AAA, get traded at a higher value mid-season or be cut loose (not literally, super-expensive-sub). I'd give Weeks the year. I don't have sources, but I keep hearing or reading that scouts to this season, still think he has the greatest total potential of anyone on the team. In the mean time, JJ gets traded for a Matt Cain, or a youngish starter with big upside and you throw Escobar in the fire, as they did with Hardy and let him develop in the majors. This value building extentends into the bullpen. You've got a bunch of arms that need to establish value like Dillard and Stetter, while Riske and maybe even Cappy need to reestablish. I couldn't see this club being favored for a wild-card with that many question marks and I don't see a small market team buying their way into it. This is how I look at it, and suspect management may look at it some similar fashion. It'll be a lot more competitive rebuilding, but rebuilding none-the-less. Edit: And I forgot to address the position movement. I don't consider this an option. It's a very bad organizational habit. It can tick off the players and undo some of their development. The Braun move was sensible, but you'd have to wonder if Hall isn't suffering from all his movements. His offensive performance was best when playing his natural position, SS. Hardy and Escobar are SS, not 3B or 2B, it would be a disservice to them to move them and they probably know that. There is more to it than numbers, you have to consider their attitudes towards the team and their place on it.

I don't believe this article is accurate, or at least it isn't anymore. I recalled buying a ticket about a month back and paying a convenience fee and a delivery fee. I just double checked and it's 3.25 convenience fee per ticket and 2.00 to print my own ticket. Perhaps they raised the prices since, the team started selling out. Oh well, I guess they got to pay that 90mil payroll some how.

Unfortunately, I cannot cite this, but I believe I've read comments somewhere and have a gut feeling that this payroll level will not be maintained. Mark A. has said if the team wins the WS, they might break even. I don't see them going into next year with that business plan.

The way I'm reading this is "Rich kids do well" which seems to be a bit obvious. But this perspective isn't surprising coming from Forbes.

Allow me to confess. I have a twenty pack and once I saw I had tix to two Cubs games I posted them on Stub Hub. I did this because A. I've had bad experiences going to Cubs games at MP and B. I saw it as a possible way to get back some money I probably should not have spent on my twenty pack. The results were good. I sold four 14$ terrace reserved tickets for a total of 146.20 which pays for almost half of my total 20-pack. This helps me a lot. I'm not rich and never will be. If the Brewers go to the playoffs, I will (agian) buy the whole playoff sheet and selectively sell tickets in hopes of minimizing the cost of the rest. I do this because I want to be there, not to make money. If I didn't do this (or plan to do this) I would not be there at all and perhaps not have bought the 20-pack in the first place. I feel guilt for possibly putting Cubs fans in the stands, but I want to be there for all the rest of the games and their deep pockets subsidize this, in a way. For what it's worth, of the two pairs of tickets I sold last week, one set went to a Wisconsin address and they bid fare more than the one that went to Ill. I'd prefer to gouge good ole Brewer fans!

Am I being an old fashioned Brewer fan when I start remodeling the team in my head for next year? That's pretty much what this series has led me to do. Three regulars hitting under .230 and a catcher that will join them before the season is over. A big name bullpen who does very little. And a manager who calls for back to back hit and run attempts with a pitcher at the plate. Just remember, we're following the model of the A's and Twins--I hope.

I wouldn't necessarily say this is a mix up. I've heard of and experienced this before and I believe its a more of a sly bartender helping out friends than a mixup. Though, usually they strike on large tabs, where one person is ordering drinks for multiple people--like those of us who do the round system or on people who are obviously drunk. The fact that the bartender wanted you to buy two more drinks and give him 10$ bucks, pretty much screams of a scam.

Yeah, but I think the team has to make a serious effort to retain Torres. Just look what happened this year when you let a closer get away. You can also throw me into the group that thinks Sheets + AA prospects >>> Sabathia. If they can rent him without losing Gamel or LaPorta and maybe even Salome, I'd say go for it.

Is it 25 times a day or 25 times period? I think it was 25 total internet votes last year and this year it says I have already voted 25 times. Anybody else besides zzzmanwitz and I haveing problems?

It's starting to become more and more clear. Most people say this team needs one more big are to make it, if Sheets goes, that becomes two arms. Mark A has more or less ponied up for everything else. I think they've got to try and keep him for another 4 -5 years, even if there's huge risk/waste in the last 2-3 years. If they're willing to pay Suppan 12.5 and 14.5, why would they pay more for Sheets? (short of an injury this year)

"Guy off the street" = McClung I was a big proponent of trading Soup as soon as his no-trade clause gave out, but I think I've gained perspective from a St. Louis fan who's a friend of mine. He thought Soup was worth big money as an innings eater and the way he's pitching now, I'd be happy to have a 12.5 mil number 4 who give you a 4ish era and 200 innings. This opinion is contingent on his deal not interfering with resigning Sheets. Oh, and satan loves you. http://unsportsmanlikecomment.files.wordpress.com/2007/12/the-satan-pit-doctor-beast3.jpg I like soup!

I agree and disagree. His D has looked bad this week. But I certainly would not use the word lazy. It seems he's quite reluctant to throw the pitch to the pitcher on close plays. This has happened a bunch of times recently, but it was also the pitcher not getting over quick enough. In today's game he looked like he was actually trying to avoid a collision with the runner. So there is something else going on there. I've seen no lack of effort, more a poor reaction to the situation.

I'm not a nutritionist , but in all the hoopla about diet over the years, it seems to me the general thought on food is that carbs make you gain weight slightly more so than fat and I'm willing to bet Prince or any other carnivore trying to go vegetarian is going to indulge in carbs (breads, starches (particularly potatoes) and sugars) to when their bodies start to crave what it's accustomed. This is why, through my layman's understanding of nutrition, I was concerned about Price change in diet. That said, he's young and still developing his lifestyle, I'll give him the rest of the year to figure it out before I start really worrying about his weight and the team.

I actually thought I did see Gange stretch his pitching arm like it hurt a few pitches before Yost came out. But seeing the way Gange came out, made me think more on the lines of what's being suggested here. I wonder if some insurance kicks in if he's on the DL--that might be more valuable to the team right now.