HiAndTight

My worry about Marco is his home run rate. The guy has been a successful pitcher the last few years (when healthy), but he has dangerously high HR rates. Otherwise, he has really solid stats (low walks, solid K rates). In 2012 and 13, he gave up a ton of HRs in the first 1/2 of the season, then settled down in the second half (in 2013 he gave up 14 HR in 69 innings pre all star break, 5 in 59 inning post break. In 2012, it was 11 hr in 51 innings pre AS break, and 7 in 87 innings post). This year he already has given up 9 HR in 43 innings. He's on pace to give up 42 HR. I worry that HR rate will only rise as he gets a little older and loses a little zip. Perhaps I'm wrong. Maybe his style of pitching will hold off the decline. I respect Estrada and don't want to sound like a broken record, but if he loses a "little zip," from his fastball, I think he's going to not only decline, but could very well be out of baseball. He's averaging 88 MPH on his fastball right now. If he drops to 86 there just isn't enough difference between the change and FB to keep hitters honest IMO. He's already lost 3 MPH in the last 3 years as he was throwing 91 when he first came here. That keeps up, two years I think he'd be lucky to hang on as a #5 or swing man.

They seem to have a few players that could help out the Brewers roster. Chavez is one who could help at the IF corners on a limited basis and Prado another.

The purpose of a guaranteed contract in sports is to ensure pay regardless of performance. The reason there are PA-based options is that it is the best objective proxy for health. I never said that the Brewers violated the contract, they didn't. But that doesn't mean Rickie isn't getting screwed. Same as K-Rod a few weeks back when he suddenly became the set-up man. Yes, that is the purpose of a guaranteed contract. And the Brewers have paid Rickie regardless of his performance. However you're the one making the assumptions that a PA based option is put in place primarily for health concerns. It seems just as logical that it's put in place to address performance issues. And if Rickie Weeks was performing at a high level, the Brewers would gladly pay him 11 million dollars a year. However he hasn't for the past 2 years. Rickie isn't getting screwed out of anything. He signed a contract that gave the Brewers options. If he was hurt, the vesting option wouldn't be picked up. If his performance declined significantly, he wouldn't play enough for his option to vest. I don't know how this can be painted as the Brewers wronging Rickie.

It's kinda amazing this team has the best record in baseball with all the "genius," moves(Which I assume was sarcasm). There also seems to be a lot of teams in baseball not exacly enamored with Francisco. I'm guessing there will be a little less angst surrounding this move by the end of the year when he's hitting .220 and struggling to get on base at a .300 clip.

Hellweg is going to the 60 day leaving us at 39. Blazek hasn't exactly been inspiring yet. So it's not all that complicated. As for Morris, this is really a game of semantics sometimes. Finally as in we've been talking about him potentially getting a shot for the last couple years. Finally as in he was coming off a year in which he put up a .303/.357/.563 line with 28 HR's in 136 games in AA, we lost both Hart and Gamel to knee injuries and we handed the 1st base job the following year to who? Yuni and Alex Rodriquez and Maldanado who posted respective OPS' of .595/433/520 played in 90 games at 1st base while Francisco played in another 67 posting at somewhat respectable .733 OPS, but playing terrible D. All in all giving us the worst production at 1st in the majors? Finally as in despite the fact that he struggled a bit last year in AAA at 25 years old(despite still showing some power) we stuck with just absolutely terrible 1st basemen. I don't think I ever inferred that he'd been so good he'd forced out hand, rather he's been our best 1st basemen at the upper levels for the last 2 years while we've had absolute garbage there. As for Barker...I have no idea if he is or not. We're going back 15 years to compare the two. They're both lefties who played 1st and roughly the same size. If he's simply John Jaha sans his one big year I'd be fine for a left handed bat until Aram comes off the DL.

Exactly. Now you know 1 of the reasons of why I'm so confident in my prediction on this Brewers team. The Brewers aren't even playing at their best yet. Not even close. Just wait till the offense get's back healthy even with ARAM out on the DL. The Brewers offense is MUCH better than this. Sure. If Aram hasn't hit the wall in his mid 30's after an injury plagued season last year and several relatively unproven guys perform how we hoped they would our offense will start to produce much better. However as that happens, our pitching is almost certainly going to go through slumps. Garza and Estrada have had health issues, Gallardo struggled last year, Peralta still is far from a proven #1/2/3 type pitcher. Lohse is pretty reliable. Our BP looks very good, but does anyone think Duke's gonna post a sub 2.00 ERA this year? Or that K-Rod is going to be able to give up 1 run every 20 innings pitched? Thornburg and Smith will be perfect? This team is good, but man, do you not see the talent on the Cards roster? You seem to take for granted that the players who have gotten off to uncharacteristically good starts are going to continue to perform at elite levels and that players who've gotten off to slow starts are going to perform at their peak level. I hate when people say, "I'm just a realist," because I've yet to find someone who thinks their opinions are just totally unrealistic....that said....I'm a realist. The Brewers aren't the best or 2nd best team in baseball talent wise and they're going to have to get lucky to win the division.

St Louis is still the class of the division and the team I'd be betting on to win the division. They, like the Pirates have some impact prospects who could come up and make a legit impact. Polanco for the Pirates and...Taveras or whoever for the Cards. Plus, they're under performing obviously. I think when we did our predictions for the Brewers record in May, I had them at 13-15 or something? I'm hoping that's what they do over the month. If they're going to win, they're going to have to make sure that when things go bad, they don't completely go off the rails and lost 10 in a row. The pitching has been too good. Thank god for Rickie Weeks right now! Though...it'd be nice if he'd be starting from time to time in LF. But when Weeks gets hot and plays well, the team usually wins. Not that he's the key that he used to be, it just seems like that's still the case even though we're far less dependent on him.

Not me. Hoffman's a guy who could be an ace and I pretty much am with you. I assume every pitcher is going to have a major injury at some point. Getting a guy after he's had that TJ surgery might be better than a college pitcher who's thrown a lot of innings and hasn't yet. More than that, he's a top 5 talent who could be a true ace.

I think I'd prefer Taylor Green just taking Aram's place for the time being. But if we're going to make a move to bring a 1st basemen up, I'd rather see Hunter Morris finally given a chance. It made some sense before the injury, it makes even more sense now.

Can someone explain the reason for Figaro starting for the Sounds when there seems to be a bit of a logjam from A+ to AAA with our starters? Bradley's still down in BC because there isn't room on the Stars roster and yet Figaro is starting for the Sounds? I'd understand normally not wanting to move guys up, but Bradley for example has spent 3 years(on his 3rd year) in HiA. Why not push him up and see if he can get it done at the next level.

Dunn might be having a resurgent year, but I wouldn't count on him keeping it up, and if he did, certainly not through next year. Though he could very easily hit .220/.320 and give us 35 HR's. The problem is he's so bad defensively that I'd rather just roll the dice with Hunter Morris. If the Brewers make a trade I believe it's going to be more along the lines of a Martin Prado from AZ, a guy who can play 3rd to backup Aram, 2nd, 1st, LF and RF. Not sure what it'd take to get him, but it won't take a Jimmy Nelson. A guy like Prado isn't going to put up a .900 OPS, but he can hit .280/.350 and do it at a number of positions. I don't think these teams are going to by prospect rankings. I think that teams are looking at players like Coulter, Tyrone Taylor, and a number of other players as pretty valuable prospects. They obviously scout players to see how they're progressing, and many of our young guys are really having great starts and have a lot of tools. Mike Fiers is a pitcher right off the top who could have a lot of value for a team looking for immediate help in someone's rotation and in their rotation down the road. I think you're really underrating the farm system. We have plenty of talent to put together a deal to fill a couple holes. We probably have the talent to make a major move if we were so inclined, but I don't think that makes sense to anyone.

This is debatable. Weeks still has the ability IMO to be a very good hitter...if he got regular playing time. I don't know if he would or not, but today, at this very moment, he seems to be a better option than Khris Davis. So lets just take this game vs the Yankees and Phelps. You're down Aram, Braun and Luc has the day off. Gennett has been a pretty good hitter last year and this year(though he's struggling at the moment). Playing Weeks in LF would allow you to get your hot bat in the lineup(yes, it's very sad he's our "hot bat") and Gennett. I've lost some respect for Weeks after this. He's always been one of my favorite players. A team leader, a guy who doesn't run his mouth, isn't full of excuses, plays hard, plays hurt. I'm not some pious baseball fan, but by almost any standard, he plays the game the right way. Now he's refusing to try to play LF to help his team. It's baffling. And he could be costing himself 11 million dollars. Unlikely he'd ever get enough AB's, but perhaps he really starts hitting and we see the 2011 Rickie Weeks? Really-Really unlikely, but he's depriving himself of that opportunity at least out of what? Fear he's not good enough? Or being petty and not liking the fact that this young guy is taking his at bats at 2nd base? And you know the guys in the clubhouse like and look up to Weeks, so I'm sure they're on his side(at least partially). I don't see one single positive for either side by him "declining," to try to play LF.

You tell 'em, buddy! You bet. At this point in Weeks career it would hurt him to play LF and have it not work out defensively or on offense, plus with Davis being a RH batter Weeks wouldn't see much playing time since Davis will eat up the playing time and is more of a long term option. His best hope which is slim is to start hitting while playing 2B even in a platoon. This move has more to do with someone picking him up in FA to play 2B than anything, so he can keep his MLB career alive. It's a smart move he made with his agents advice more than likely. Either way he's going to be gone by mid-season. The Brewers were doing him a favor by platooning him at 2B, so he could get playing time to increase his value, and up until this point he's been terrible. So bad in fact, that he's hurting the team by taking up a roster spot and costing Gennett playing time and hurting the Brewers. He's has no good scenario unless he starts hitting, and no better option than a platoon. However, his time might be up because I think this was the Brewers last move with him, and now he could be released in just a matter of days. I can't imagine how at this point in Rickies career, at a time when he's no longer an everyday 2nd basemen, is 31 years old and has struggled badly last year and struggled the year before, that showing he's capable of doing more than just playing a subpar 2nd base and MAYBE being able to hit around league average. Him playing LF might literally be the only thing that actually "keeps his career alive." He plays some LF now, maybe in the future due to the fact that he can play LF, he's an option to play RF. He's still not a "utility," player, but at least there is some value to having him on a team. I can't imagine his agent saying it's a good idea to refuse to move to LF to help out your team so you can get into the lineup and get the playing time to possibly get hot again. The notion that, "well, he might not be good out there and they're going to play Khris Davis anyway," doesn't make sense to me. They asked him BECAUSE Davis wasn't hitting well and was struggling, and if he can't play a passable LF, then what? What's the big downside? You find out that he's exactly who he is right now? And finally, the Brewers aren't in the business of "doing favors." They're playing Rickie Weeks at 2nd base vs lefties because Scooter Gennett is SO incredibly terrible vs left handers that even a struggling Weeks is a better option to play there than Gennett on those days.

Its not a great show... but it is funny and entertaining.... That's kinda my take on most sitcoms right now. It doesn't take much to entertain me. If I watch a historical movie, I don't worry about how accurate it is. If I watch a sitcom it doesn't have to keep me in stitches for the whole show. Enlisted falls into my aforementioned group of "filler," type shows. Funny at times...worth watching if nothing else is on and don't want to start a full hour show or movie.

They jumped the proverbial shark a while ago. If they wanted to make it last they shouldn't have had all the nonsense with the school shutting down and the guy from Talk Soup become a teacher...they should have just found a way to draw out their time in school. Though it was getting pretty awful IMO before that with those animated versions where you were supposed to be in Abed's head....or..whatever that was. It was kinda funny for a little while. Modern Family is the funniest show out there. I also like Californications...though not certain that's a "sitcom." Silicon Valley has been pretty good. And I REALLY like Veep on HBO. Julia Louis-Dreyfus is historical. The Big Bang is clever and really funny at times. The Middle, Trophy Wife, Mom...they're good for when you don't feel like staying up for another hour and just want to watch a 20 minute show. The Goldbergs get bonus points when they actually show some of the actual footage taken in the 80's depicting whatever the show was about as you realize it may not be exaggerated THAT badly! Edit-Brooklyn99 is probably 2nd behind Modern Family. That's a LOT funnier than I thought it would be as I thought Sandberg would just overdo it. But...it's funny as hell. So...again, 1-Modern Family(By a lot IMO) 2-Brooklyn 99(a distant 2nd, but very good) 2A-Veep The others are fillers.

That would be a pretty bad trade for the Jays. Even only half a season of Rasmus is worth more than Weeks. Worth more based on what? Projected WAR? Past WAR? Are we even using WAR, a means of comparing players values, but hardly an absolute determination of value. And what's more, if the difference between Rasmus and Gose is negligible, yet Weeks is better than the FIVE second basemen they've already run out there this year, then even if we're using WAR to state mater of factually that he's twice as good, wouldn't that still be a net gain for the Jays? I think it's a little bit more involved than looking at projected WAR's and saying Rasmus is worth twice as much.

We can't possibly know who's interested in Weeks. Second, just because we've had his name out there since October(assuming they have, I'll have to take your word for it) what difference does that make? Players get hurt, struggle, teams look to exchange bad salaries in the hopes that a change of scenery might work. Teams look to add players when they're contending. A whole lotta things can change between October to May of the following year. Vernon Wells was traded. So were dozens of others with bad salaries have been traded. Just out of curiosity, I've seen it mentioned by posters on this forum that the Jays may play Francisco at 3rd base and Lawrie at 2nd. I have yet to see the Jays say they were going to make such a move. Lawrie at the moment(a much better 3rd basemen than 2nd basemen by the way) is hitting .229/.276/.407 Weeks is hitting .257/.333/.286 Juan Francisco has a .389 BABIP(don't see that holding up). Is almost Ryan Braun-ish over at 3rd. And has hit well in 72 games as his BB rate is up to 12.5 from ~7 percent for his career and his ISO SLG is sitting at .311 up from .199. I think it's fair to say that the 17 games he's played are a bit of an outlier given his career thus far. So I think it's at least reasonable for the Jays to look at it as an opportunity to make Gose the full time starter to take a chance that Weeks can hit well as he's done in the past...especially if the Brewers are willing to pay a small part of Weeks salary in order to even out the financial obligations.

I'm a bit confused on this one. Are you referring to the 8-3 win over AZ when Roenicke used Will Smith to pitch the 7th after the Brewers scored 4 in the bottom of the 6th to take a 5 run lead and then finished the game with Wooten(1 1/3 IP) and Duke to finish the game? In any event, are people worried the sky is falling? I'm sure some are, but I'd think most are remaining pretty level headed, see the Brewers sitting at 22-14 and realize that Braun's coming back, Aram always struggles early on and guys like Segura, Davis, Schafer/Gindl and company are almost certainly going to improve significantly. I thought they were a 85 win team(with good health and a little good luck). After their hot start, I figured they'd cool off. I still have another weeks worth of games before I start to worry too much. We have 6 games with the Pirates who we've played well against thus far and the Cubs. If we can't win at least 4 of these next 8 I'll start getting more worried.

So we're caught up over the term "core," as opposed to say "group?" Alright, I'll refer to them as a good "group," of young, talented potential starting pitchers. With regard to Smith, I used absent mindedly used ERA. I was trying to compare his FIP with Peralta's. I wouldn't say a 4.66 FIP for a 22 year old lefty would be struggling. And no, I can't guarantee with absolute certainty that he would improve upon that given a chance to start again, but you were just arguing over the merits of developing young prospects and a farm system. I don't see why we'd change our thought process just because a guy no longer qualifies as a rookie or as a "prospect." I think it's pretty likely that he would improve as a starting pitcher given the opportunity. I also believe given the fact that he's young, a lefty, and that he has 3 good pitches, he's going to be given the chance to start at some point. Nelson is a starting pitcher right now. It just so happens the Brewers have more starting pitching depth right now than I can ever recall them having. I realize he won't get a shot until either Melvin moves one of the starting 5, or an injury occurs, but that doesn't diminish what he's capable of. Nor does the fact that Thornburg has been exceptionally good as a reliever. The Brewers have yet to bring up a pitcher who's had success starting and then left him in the BP like Papelbon, so I'm going to assume that he will also get a chance to start. My main underlying point was they have a very good group, core, whatever of young players who are under team control for several years.

This is a bit of an oversimplification of the facts. Will Smith at age 22 struggled as a starter for the Royals in the AL Central. Though I'm not even sure I consider a 4.66 ERA "struggling," in 89 innings for a 22 year old. Just for comparisons sake, Wily Peralta at age 24 had a 4.30 FIP. So I agree Smith didn't dominate in his first go 'round as a starter. How many pitchers really do though? And how big of a deal is it when they do? Mike Fiers was pretty dominant in his first dozen starts. Second, Smith wasn't sent to the pen because he wasn't good enough so much as the fact that the Royals made the monumentally stupid trade to acquire James Shields(IMO anyway) as well as to add Ervin Santana. Both very good pitchers who had very good years. Third, I don't buy the argument that because the Brewers chose to sign Matt Garza that means anything regarding our younger arms like Jimmy Nelson, Thornburg or Smith. I don't know why they chose to sign Garza. I don't really care to be honest. It doesn't change my opinion of the guys we have. They had money, Mark A likes to make a splash to get interest in the team up. But you can't use the argument that Smith wasn't good in his time as a reliever and then turn around and dismiss Thornburg's 2.37 ERA in 10 starts. If you just don't believe that Thornburg, Smith, Nelson and then obviously Peralta are that good, then that's fine. But to try and take one small sample size here and say he must not be that good because the Royals didn't even start him, or that the Brewers preferred Garza to Thornburg and/or Nelson, so you can't really count either of them as starters....you're taking the confluence of events and say these very young pitchers who've got big arms aren't starters. Maybe I'm optimistic. I can't help but be incredibly encouraged by Thornburg. People believed he was going to be a reliever due to his size(common to most guys under 6') but even more so due to the lack of a 3rd pitch. I don't think anyone has any such concerns anymore. Smith is a big lefty who's got 3 pitches and has started every year of his career save for last year and the first month of this one. I don't think him taking the ball every 5th day is a big leap. Nelson has looked fantastic and is a top 100 prospect, Peralta is obviously pretty established.

I'm guessing that Roenicke never gave any such reason for using Smith since it was pretty straight forward why he used him, but if he said after that game that he had saved him as he was planning on using him the following day, then please correct me. If he simply used him the next day and therefore you're extrapolating what his rationale must have been, then that's pretty misleading. It was a better matchup all things being equal. You have a pitcher who's been a very good lefty SU man and a very good RH'ed SU man, how much can you complain that they used the lefty vs the two lefties and the right hander vs the 4th hitter who was a right hander? And in the KC example, it was a pitcher who was on the DL early in the year AND who saw limited PT last year. Kintlzer was our most used reliever last year. I often used to read forums of other teams and it was funny how many fans of pretty much every forum i ever read thought their manager was an idiot. I've done the same and found the exact same thing myself. I've always believed the difference in managers is negligible. They almost always do the same thing, and almost every fan base hates theirs when they're not winning what they think they should. Not everyone sounds as dumb as Dusty Baker and Joe Morgan, but most managers run their teams the way Baker runs his or Morgan...probably would. This was always my "defense," of Yost. He's not much different than anyone else. Though I can't defend the historically stupid Shouse IBB of Howard move. But generally speaking. I doubt RR would be bunting as much if he had Trout, Pujols, and company in his lineup and didn't have to have a pitcher hit. Yost's biggest problem IMO was how he could be so condescending and sound like such a jerk when answering some of these questions.

Another reason it wouldn't be such a tragedy if they lost Wang. Hobbs Johnson and Anthony Banda are two more lefty starters worth following. Banda is only 20 and handling full season ball so far. Even if these players are worth following and their ceilings are anywhere near Wang's, since when have we used this type of logic? Anyone who's followed the Brewers farm system has seen how many promising young arms just flame out? This would have been like saying it's alright to lose Wily Peralta because we have Cody Scarpetta, Taylor Jungman and Jed Bradley going into the 2012 season.

That's not at all the definition of a lefty specialist, and a lefty specialist wouldn't likely have 13.1 IP in 16 appearances or have faced more right handed hitters than left handed hitters as Smith has. Roenicke had two late inning relievers. He used his right handed guy to face the Reds cleanup hitter after using the left hander to get the previous two guys out. Any time something doesn't work out you can look back and complain about it, but this was perfectly logical at the time.

The ump at third base put his hands up and tried to get in front of Gomez as soon as he left the base. The player with the ball at the time was Josh Harrison and he tried to hold Cole back. So there was really no way for Gomez to be tagged out. Well tagged out or out of the base paths, the difference is negligible. It just goes to my larger point that Gomez, for all the good he does, doesn't need to absolutely go nuts because someone runs their mouth. He cost us 2-3 games where he won't be playing, and in that instance, he could have been called out and cost us a very important run in a game that went extra innings.

I raise those questions because what the Brewers are attempting to do is so amazingly without precedent. I won't post in this thread anymore and just let Wang answer our questions. This is pretty much where I'm coming from also. It's clear that some feel like this is no big deal and that teams do this all the time. I can't think of any time where a team has allowed an A ball caliber pitcher take up a roster spot with basically the assumption he he will be on the roster the entire year because of his "future potential" and we can't afford to lose him despite how poorly he pitches this year. A position rule 5 guy is a little different imho. At least a position rule 5 player can usually can fill in defensively or perhaps they have speed and can be used as pinch runners. An A ball pitcher is usually going to do much more damage than good when they are called upon. It's like the team has basically thrown in the white towel when ever they decide to put him in the game. I don't feel like that's the role of a "mop up" guy. I think they should be at least relied upon occasionally to keep the game within reason with some hope of making a come back. I personally don't think Wang is capable of doing that at the MLB level at this point in his career. I'll also agree that only Wang will settle the argument posed in this thread. At some point in the future (possibly 2 or 3 years from now) we will hopefully see if this experiment worked. I honestly hope I'm wrong and that Wang turns out to A) not hurt us this year and B) be a contributing factor to the success of the Brewers in future years. I honestly don't believe Wang has to turn into a star for this to make sense from the Brewers perspective. They're taking a chance on a talented young pitcher(and we all know how often talented young lefties don't work out). When you weigh that against the limitations of having Wang on the roster(which I believe are minimal) and that's the argument. I won't think any differently of this move if he turns into Johan Santana vs Matt Ford. When young pitching is so hit and miss, I'll take as many shots as I can to find talented ones.