HiAndTight

We saw positive trends in his AB 3 weeks ago then he sucked again. Gomez shows flashes of being good without actually improving and has for a while now. I don't know what stretch you're talking about from 3 weeks ago, but in the last 3 weeks he's put up a line of; .290/.357/.484 for an .841 OPS. He's also been worth 1.3 Wins for us this year. I think we're ignoring what's he's been doing this year and just sticking with the line that he's a terrible player. Gomez HAS been showing obvious signs of improvement, and while I don't argue that it's been a very short period of time, just dismissing it saying, "well, he's done this a few weeks ago," is disingenuous. He's been improved and he's been a very positive player for us thus far this year. For comparisons sake, he's been worth more this year than Weeks has.

Pretty obvious it's not. Though I think at this point enough people have piled on.

I assume, as mine was, it was directed at the person who started the thread.

At what point then do you promote a prospect? This is a post that is applicable to every single HOF'er who's ever come up(save the AAA time). So it's a non-issue to me. If you believe he can hit, and he's proven he can, I don't see why you wouldn't go with him and put your money into SS/CF.

At what time though? One 200 AB stretch. That's it. Yeah, Gross was a better option that year during that stretch, beyond that, there isn't much difference between the two. The fact that there in any way comparable only goes to the argument that Gross was vastly overrated on here.

That's fine, but it's still not being articulated on here. People aren't bashing Fielder in droves for not signing a below market value deal on this message board.

That's fine, but on a message board that preaches sample sizes so often, I don't see any viable argument against him being a poor hitter, one solid partial season notwithstanding.

This is little more than a diversion from the fact that Gabe Gross save for about 200 AB's one year was terrible, and his value was greatly inflated by many on this board. The fact of the mater is Gross was a terrible hitter, in particular the last couple years, and pretty poor for his career as a "power" hitting corner OF'er. I also don't get why you're breaking up the numbers in this fashion. Why are we going post-09 for Kotsay and we're going back so as to include Gross's best season.

Well, Prince HASN'T "done nothing but been a upstanding teammate," he's actually have several instances of being an idiot. The Dodgers whole fake bravado, the constant, "hold me back" type things, shoving Parra. That said, I don't see what you're talking about. Prince is playing his tail off for us, he's a different guy than Braun for sure, but he plays hard, and I don't see anyone who's down on Prince at all. So, I don't see the point of this lecture to be perfectly honest. I think you're preaching to the wrong choir here if you're trying to inform us that it's a business thing and that Prince isn't doing anything wrong. We know that. We do have added appreciation for Braun for sticking around, but I haven't see a whole lot of people, again, who are down on Prince. Certainly not enough to warrant a call to action to stop such behaviors...

Right, if Prince is only "slightly" better than Alcides offensively, I might by your measure of "slightly."

No, we're not. At least not according to everything Melvin and Attanasio has said.

I realize that nothing will dissuade you of your Yuni love, but I'm curious which part you consider thee pleasant surprise? The .293 on-base percentage? The .341 slugging percentage? The no range/ no errors fielding? Because of his expectations. He haven't been nearly as bad as I thought he would be either, offensively or defensively. The concrete feet comment is no more valid than asking for examples was.

In 208 At Bats it is. And we do have a role player like Gross. He's named Mark Kotsay. Not sure why one is revered and the other reviled, but the two are very similar offensively.

I don't think he went with that angle whatsoever, I think he asked why you're not as big of a fan of Braun, what about him don't you like. A very fair question when you cite Corey Hart as one of your favorite players.

I completely agree with you. He was a decent player, but for some reason players of his ilk tend to get vastly overvalued by some. Same with Dickerson.

I've seen this argument before and think it's a complete fallacy. You're telling me that with Weeks on first, Braun and Prince up after Gomez, he'll get the same pitches to hit in a 2-0, 3-1 count as he could hitting say 8th in the order? I doubt anyone would argue such a thing. So now if you agree with that, then obviously there are variations of how you're pitched depending on who is coming up, and as such it's got SOMETHING to do with it. I wouldn't say it's an overwhelming factor, but it's more definitely relevant. I'm sure it is a factor but the effect but I believe that the effect is overstated by the average baseball fan. You can always look at stuff like this as a starting point: http://www.actasports.com/stats_detail/?StatId=71 An average #2 gets 3% more fastballs than a #8. So if a guy averages 4 pitches per PA, he'll get one extra fastball every 8 PA? Of course, it's hard to say how much of that difference is even dependent on batting order position. I think much of that difference may simply be the result of the types of batters that typically bat in those respective positions. Not trying to pretend any of this proves anything conclusively. It does seem to suggest subtle differences as opposed to dramatic ones. I see what you're saying, but I'm taking this even a step further, not just an average #2 or #8 hitter with the average #3/4 guys behind them, but in particular Gomez with Braun and Prince behind them. I think it's exaggerated by most fans as well, as is most conventional baseball wisdom, but to say it doesn't exist, well...I think you'd have to be an idiot to pitch Gomez in the same way in each scenario.

The eye test tells something very different for me. But, it's a infintesimal sample size so far, so I'm not that concerned with the numbers. We're not even talking about the entire season, we're talking about maybe 10 days. And it's not the total PPA, it's the pitches he's swinging at. He's letting strikes go by early in the count because they're breaking balls, pitches he's more apt pop up or hit weakly. I don't think it tells us anything yet, but it gives me SOME hope.

I don't think finances would be a problem with regard to Reyes. We're talking about what, 5 million dollars? As many chips as the Brewers have pushed to the middle for this year and next, I can't see that holding them back. I also can't see the Brewers having a good enough prospect to base a deal around. I suspect the best chance of us getting him, which is still incredibly unlikely, would be to move a guy like Corey Hart in some type of three team deal where another team gives a good prospect back in return. Something convoluted like that would be the only real chance I see us having, and in that scenario, I'd just assume we trade for a guy like Hardy.

Interesting. While I'm not (yet) fully on board in agreeing with you, one compelling argument that might lean in your favor is that in the All-Time OPS rankings Ty Cobb ranks only 25th. Most experts opinions whether based on anecdotal evidence or not would say that Cobb was a much better hitter than merely the 25th best in history, and certainly a better hitter than the likes of Jim Thome & Frank Thomas who are ahead of him on the All-Time OPS rankings Cobb is 9th All-Time in OBP Right, but in that case OPS+ would be a far better indicator in comparing players in their own era's. Cobb ranks 10th all time there, and an argument can be made that almost every hitter above him was a better hitter. Ruth, Bonds, Williams, Mantle, Pujols, Gehrig, Honrsby, Shoeless Joe, and then Dan Brouthers who was done by 1896. But if you're comparing two guys who are playing at the same time, and who are both power hitters, not sure what stat you're going to find, what single stat will be a better indicator. Frank Thomas, while not Ty Cobb WAS an incredible hitter though...

I'd just assume we play it out with Betancourt and the crew we have for the next 2+ months, get Greinke, Hart and the BP guys back and then look for a salary dump. Reyes will be shopped, but we don't have the guns to pull the trigger, but there should be solid defenders readily available. And towards the end, Taylor Green, Caleb Gindl and Mat Gamel should help solidify the bench just fine. We're not lacking in bench type players in the minors right now, so when push comes to shove, I think we'll be fine there.

Yes...at least I'm 99.9 pct certain it is. Gotta pass through the teams in your league first, then the other league.

The question is "who is the better hitter", not who is the better "walker". I think Fielder has been the better hitter, but I think Braun will be the better hitter going forward. I've actually heard that argument when talking about this. Citing Prince being more valuable because of his OBP, etc...and hearing that the question is who is a better "hitter." So...lets go with "offensive player.'' Braun's really erasing the only thing Prince had on him until now, his great OBP. Braun's walking like Forest Gump right now and that changes the entire conversation. With that said, I'll go with Prince as Braun's done it for less than 100 AB's, but if he can even come close to keeping this up, it's definitely going to become Braun.

That one is of particular interest to me. He's always been great and had great starts, but if he can continue to walk even 10 pct of the time, not the over 17 pct he's currently at even, but just 10, there's just nothing not love about his offense.

I've seen this argument before and think it's a complete fallacy. You're telling me that with Weeks on first, Braun and Prince up after Gomez, he'll get the same pitches to hit in a 2-0, 3-1 count as he could hitting say 8th in the order? I doubt anyone would argue such a thing. So now if you agree with that, then obviously there are variations of how you're pitched depending on who is coming up, and as such it's got SOMETHING to do with it. I wouldn't say it's an overwhelming factor, but it's more definitely relevant.

His velocity is down, but saying he's "been bad" is definitely pushing it.